Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[tlcya]

Is it recorded that they "didn't bag those girls hands and collect evidence from under their nails."??
I haven't read that anywhere.

I could have sworn I read that Page or the other officer first on the scene testified that as part of securing and processing the crime scene the girls hands WERE bagged.

 

[katydid23]

If he was interrupted before SA could happen, then I would wonder how he had time to drag bodies and stage them as he did, and cover them with sticks as he did? MOOOO. He was clearly taking his time in setting up that scene in my opinion based on the limited bits we've heard to date about it.

The term 'interruption' has many levels.
Level Three interruption= Game warden walks onto the scene and interrupts his fantasy. End Game interruption.

Level Two interruption= he hears a male on the bridge yelling Libby's name---"Libby, Abby, Where are you???"

Level One interruption= he was on the bank of the creek, forcing the girls to undress, when he hears a car approaching on the gravel driveway of the closest home---so he scurries across the creek forcing the girls at gunpoint

With a level 1 interruption, he was able to pivot, and take the girls to a more private area and continue his sick fantasies. But I think he eventually had a level 2, when he heard people calling out for the girls, so he knew it was time to bounce.

 

[photographer4]

You ignored the several pieces of circumstantial evidence the jury does have. DNA and electronics alone to do make for a certain conviction.

I haven't ignored them. I'm weighing them with whatever news we get from the media. I'm not convinced - yet. I don't have the benefit of the photos / recordings / hearing live testimony / seeing the accused for myself or his reactions or lack thereof etc. I don't have the benefit of live reporting or even audio recording or transcripts to access. Its hard for me to assess the case as a result. Mooo.

 

[Vaderman]

Did make me think twice when I heard how many cell phones as well with that particular one unaccounted for only he never got rid of the Ford focus, that blue coat we don't know yet if it was the one he wore that day or not (has this been confirmed or not yet), but we do know that it had no blood or DNA on it. What else? No witness yet has given a description that really fits him, also, I don't see him as a 20 something year old nor someone with a beautiful face.

I do know we all see beauty differently, of course.

But that one phone not unaccounted for has made me think so I would like to know what happened to it and if there is satisfactory answer.

Of all my cell phones the only ones I have ever thrown out are the ones that have quite literally started coming apart whereas the rest are still somewhere boxed away or given away to someone.

JMO MOO JMT

I've been fairly convinced of his guilt, but I gotta say that the amount of electronic devices and knives found don't really add much weight for me.

I put myself in those shoes and the contents of a search warrant of my apartment would make me look suspicious as hell. Four computers, two iPads, several cellphones, pretty much every generation of the iPod nano ever released. And I'm a knife collector without a nice display case so I quite literally have knives ALL OVER THE PLACE!

That missing cellphone from the time of the murders, of course, is of interest. But I'm not easily as swayed towards his guilt just from the devices and knives found.

 

[Yemelyan]

For ease of access, can you pls provide a link? I'm not seeing it...Ty

Court is back in session at 1:14 p.m. News 8’s Kyla Russell reports only 15 of the 16 jurors came back into the courtroom after the lunch break. Russell reports it is unclear why the number changed.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 7 live blog

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Friday is the seventh day of testimonies in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Allen, 52, is charged with murder and murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping in the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail...

www.wishtv.com

 

[Inthedetails]

For ease of access, can you pls provide a link? I'm not seeing it...Ty

Nope. I'm not seeing the posts now so comment must have been deleted, which partially answers my question if there are any updates.

I won't repeat what was previously posted since it was deleted for a reason.

jmo

 

[m00c0w]

During Oberg’s testimony, it was also revealed that Allen’s Sig Saur hadn’t been the only gun tested as a possible match for the crime scene bullet. Eight total guns have been tested in the case, including three guns in 2017 and four others found in the Wabash River in 2022. Allen’s gun was the first to come back as a match to the unspent round found between Abby and Libby.

After the state finished its questioning of Oberg, the defense cross-examined her and attempted to hammer in on the possibility of inconclusiveness in her results or errors in the testing, citing how her findings only needed to reach “sufficient agreement.”

Oberg stood by her findings and stated her field only has an error rate of 2-2.5%. She said that over her 17-year career and 100+ criminal trials, her findings have never been found in error or reversed.

But Rozzi pushed on the fact that Oberg’s conclusion was based on a test fired round, not a test ejected round like the one found at the crime scene. Oberg tied the crime scene cartridge to Allen’s gun specifically through three ejection marks.

Oberg stated an “ejector mark is an ejector mark whether its fired or cycled.”

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-forensic-firearms-examiner-discusses-toolmark-methodology-unspent-bullet-evidence/

Crazy how they had such tunnel vision that they tested 7 other firearms before finding a match with RA’s.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I'm still scratching my head that they didn't bag those girls hands and collect evidence from under their nails.

“In the photos of Libby's body, there are paper bags over her hands. Kohr said this was to protect potential evidence that may have been under her fingernails.”

'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

 

[MiniMoo]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 7 live blog

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Friday is the seventh day of testimonies in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Allen, 52, is charged with murder and murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping in the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail...

www.wishtv.com

Obergt shows the jury a powerpoint presentation that came to the conclusion that the gun collected from Allen’s home in 2022 had indeed cycled the cartridge that was found near the bodies of Libby and Abby.

Obergt tested another cartridge with the gun found in Allen’s home to see if the tool marks would match.

She showed the jury five images of the test cartridge compared to the cartridge at the scene. She told the jury that several marks were in agreement.

Obergt testified that the cartridge at the scene had NOT been fired, but that the test cartridge HAD been fired. She told the jury there was research to back up doing it that way.

Aren't fired bullets different to unfired ones though?

I'm most definitely not gun or bullet savvy and have never held or owned a gun let alone a bullet in my entire life, but surely a fired bullet would be different to one that has never been fired.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding Obergt's findings, but I really don't see how an unfired one would be similar to a fired one.

Need to read it again I think.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Inthedetails]

Nope. I'm not seeing the posts now so comment must have been deleted, which partially answers my question if there are any updates.

I won't repeat what was previously posted since it was deleted for a reason.

jmo

Oops, I correct myself. @photographer4

It's post #304 and here's the link:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849902237977542837

 

[MassGuy]

I've been fairly convinced of his guilt, but I gotta say that the amount of electronic devices and knives found don't really add much weight for me.

I put myself in those shoes and the contents of a search warrant of my apartment would make me look suspicious as hell. Four computers, two iPads, several cellphones, pretty much every generation of the iPod nano ever released. And I'm a knife collector without a nice display case so I quite literally have knives ALL OVER THE PLACE!

That missing cellphone from the time of the murders, of course, is of interest. But I'm not easily as swayed towards his guilt just from the devices and knives found.

Agreed. Interesting for sure, but not damning in their own.

Phones get disposed of. Some people have lots of knives. You could make an argument that the “it doesn’t matter, it’s over,” could potentially have an innocent explanation. He could really have been going to the grocery store that day, and not in fact refused to meet at other locations.

It just adds to what is now, an incomplete picture.

 

[technicallymissing]

the testimony about the search of RAs house makes me wonder if the knife play was the fantasy. Something about control and sadism. and a fixation with the bridge.

MOO

I wondered this in the last thread about the box cutters after hearing about the large number of them. I don’t think it’s much of a reach at this point to say RA has/had a fascination with bladed weapons after the sheer total amount of them (multiple knives in the master bedroom alone?) found but JMO of course.

 

[katydid23]

Right? He has "confessed" to everyone EXCEPT to JG during the multiple times he has been in court before the trial and all through the trial. You'd think if he was h*ll bent on confessing and felt no one was listening he'd be screaming it from the table at which he is presently sat, no?

No, because he has apparently been told by his wife and mother to STOP confessing. And I assume his attorneys are promising him he will be found Not Guilty if he shuts his mouth. IMO

Originally he told Dr Wala and others that his guilt and regret and fear of not reuniting with his family in heaven made him want to confess, to save his soul. And he asked both his wife and mother, if they would still love him if he confessed to his crimes. Apparently they said NO. JMO IMO

 

[tlcya]

“In the photos of Libby's body, there are paper bags over her hands. Kohr said this was to protect potential evidence that may have been under her fingernails.”

'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

thank you for finding this. I have been googling madly with every keyword I could think of to find it.

 

[MiniMoo]

I’m a little confused as to why they “fired” the test bullet - why couldn’t they just cycle it like the bullet found. Did it not create the marks they were looking for so took another step? Just seems odd to me. Hopefully we get more info on why this was necessary.

IMO

I'm thinking the same, also, wouldn't a fired bullet be different to one that hasn't been fired.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[MassGuy]

Aren't fired bullets different to unfired ones though?

I'm most definitely not gun or bullet savvy and have never held or owned a gun let alone a bullet in my entire life, but surely a fired bullet would be different to one that has never been fired.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding Obergt's findings, but I really don't see how an unfired one would be similar to a fired one.

Need to read it again I think.

JMO MOO JMT

She seems to be saying that fired rounds provide a more accurate analysis because they leave stronger markings for comparison.

 

[photographer4]

Court is back in session at 1:14 p.m. News 8’s Kyla Russell reports only 15 of the 16 jurors came back into the courtroom after the lunch break. Russell reports it is unclear why the number changed.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 7 live blog

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Friday is the seventh day of testimonies in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Allen, 52, is charged with murder and murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping in the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail...

www.wishtv.com

Thank you!

 

[Vaderman]

Good, this is even better than the 3 we had heard about.

During Oberg’s testimony, it was also revealed that Allen’s Sig Saur hadn’t been the only gun tested as a possible match for the crime scene bullet. Eight total guns have been tested in the case, including three guns in 2017. Allen’s gun was the first to come back as a match to the unspent round found between Abby and Libby.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-forensic-firearms-examiner-discusses-toolmark-methodology-unspent-bullet-evidence/

I'm feeling a lot better about the ammo/gun evidence now that it's coming out that they started working on it back in 2017 and not just after RA was arrested.

 

[Elley Mae]

Cartridge markings, carhartt, hands bagged or not, grocery store parking lot and backing in to park.

Did I miss anything? Just trying to keep up.

 

[ClearAhead]

I could have sworn I read that Page or the other officer first on the scene testified that as part of securing and processing the crime scene the girls hands WERE bagged.

Mention was made during the autopsy photos presented by Dr Kohr

'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

In the photos of Libby's body, there are paper bags over her hands. Kohr said this was to protect potential evidence that may have been under her fingernails.