Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #207

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
Link to post with all threads 1 - 98 (Courtesy of margarita25)
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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video
Hidden True Crime
Lawyer Lee
Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[Niner]

Tuesday, October 29th:
*Trial continues (Day 10) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. One alternate was dismissed for a family emergency. 3 Alternates left (3 women). Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-8 (10/18-10/26/24) reference post #513 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-205.727220/page-26
10/28/24 Monday, Trial Day 9: State witnesses: Stacy Bozinovski, an Indiana State Police forensic scientist, did DNA analysis. LaPorte County Sheriff Maj. Pat Cicero. Cicero is a LaPorte County sheriff’s major with previous experience as a crime scene investigator. Cicero said his specialty while as a CSI was blood stains.
For more info see post #574 (Day 9 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-205.727220/page-29
Trial continues on Tuesday, 10/29/24 @ 9am.

 

[CamilleBSP]

Do we have any testimony at all that provides evidence of any restraints used? if so, is there a link? I didn’t think there had been any but maybe I’m a bit behind. Ty.

No testimony of restraints whatsoever.

 

[INfisherman]

Do we have any testimony at all that provides evidence of any restraints used? if so, is there a link? I didn’t think there had been any but maybe I’m a bit behind. Ty.

None that I recall & I take the post you quoted more speculative/theory as to what might have occurred & less of a statement per se.

JMO

 

[dub]

This has probably been discussed, sorry I’m not recalling….. is it thought by fellow posters that the phone was in Libby’s pocket the whole time after the video recording? And then maybe fell out when her jeans were put on Abby? Then at some point it fell out onto the ground and her body was over it? Incredible and so lucky that he didn’t witness that happening, if so! The chaos that must have been happening

If I remember right, there was an attempt to unlock the phone very shortly after the video was taken.

I assumed this was Libby attempting to do this with the phone hidden in her sweatshirt pouch pocket rather than her jeans, as it would have been easier to conceal and manipulate in there, but that’s just a guess.

I don’t have a good idea of how the phone ended up where it did, but yeah your theory is a good possibility.

 

[photographer4]

Why all the confessing then? That's not a logical thing to do if you're simply innocent. MO

I think that’s a huge part of how we get wrongful convictions that end up overturned later. People do make false confessions. It’s not unheard of even if it seems illogical to some. It makes sense to me in some cases - maybe they want to give up fighting (depression). Maybe they are medicated. Or need it and aren’t. Maybe they’re scared in prison or scared of being released. I don’t know why really, but false confessions do happen and unfortunately often times jurors believe them only to learn later they were false. Moo. A quote for those interested followed by a link to the source:

“According to the National Registry of Exonerations, there have been over 2,500 exonerations since 1989, representing more than 23,950 years that innocent Americans spent in prison. Surprisingly, approximately 12% of these defendants had falsely confessed to committing the crime. This indicates not only that false confessions happen, but that hundreds of people have falsely confessed to crimes that they did not commit.”

The Psychology of False Confessions

Why would an innocent person, in his right mind, confess to a crime that he did not commit? The answer may surprise you.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[photographer4]

None that I recall & I take the post you quoted more speculative/theory as to what might have occurred & less of a statement per se.

JMO

Ok fair enough. Just wasn’t sure if I was further behind than I thought. So no evidence to suggest even soft restraints. Thanks.

 

[snooptroop88]

Do we have any testimony at all that provides evidence of any restraints used? if so, is there a link? I didn’t think there had been any but maybe I’m a bit behind. Ty.

Source: Cicero said he believes the lack of blood on Abby's hands suggested she was either restrained or unconscious when the killer slashed her throat. This is because it's unusual for people who are injured in that way to not touch their wounds in response.

Delphi trial jurors hear from blood specialist who says Libby German was likely dragged

The third week in the double-murder trial of Richard Allen began with testimonies from a forensic scientist and a blood specialist.

www.jconline.com

 

[Melted]

Did she testify or was this an investigator on the stand recounting this?

She didn’t testify to this nor did an investigator testify to it, TMS stated that they heard it in the interview

 

[photographer4]

This has probably been discussed, sorry I’m not recalling….. is it thought by fellow posters that the phone was in Libby’s pocket the whole time after the video recording? And then maybe fell out when her jeans were put on Abby? Then at some point it fell out onto the ground and her body was over it? Incredible and so lucky that he didn’t witness that happening, if so! The chaos that must have been happening

I question this because jurors asked if the ground under Abby had been disturbed and the answer from the witness was no.

“A highlight of the testimony involved a juror who asked whether the undergrowth on the ground where Abby was lying appeared to have been disturbed, which would suggest she was dressed there. Abby was found fully clothed, but she appeared to have been dressed in Libby's clothes. The juror asked the question in the form of a note that was given to the judge.

Brian Olehy, an Indiana State Police crime scene investigator, said there was no indication the area was disturbed.”

Delphi trial witness testifies seeing 'Bridge Guy' on trail: 'I remember I waved to him'

Crime scene investigators took the stand in the case against Richard M. Allen in Delphi.

www.indystar.com

I

 

[MassGuy]

I think that’s a huge part of how we get wrongful convictions that end up overturned later. People do make false confessions. It’s not unheard of even if it seems illogical to some. It makes sense to me in some cases - maybe they want to give up fighting (depression). Maybe they are medicated. Or need it and aren’t. Maybe they’re scared in prison or scared of being released. I don’t know why really, but false confessions do happen and unfortunately often times jurors believe them only to learn later they were false. Moo. A quote for those interested followed by a link to the source:

“According to the National Registry of Exonerations, there have been over 2,500 exonerations since 1989, representing more than 23,950 years that innocent Americans spent in prison. Surprisingly, approximately 12% of these defendants had falsely confessed to committing the crime. This indicates not only that false confessions happen, but that hundreds of people have falsely confessed to crimes that they did not commit.”

The Psychology of False Confessions

Why would an innocent person, in his right mind, confess to a crime that he did not commit? The answer may surprise you.

www.psychologytoday.com

This is the context people keep referring to, and it's the completely wrong one. Allen did not confess to law enforcement, which is what that research is analyzing. This is a completely different situation, with a very different dynamic.

 

[photographer4]

Source: Cicero said he believes the lack of blood on Abby's hands suggested she was either restrained or unconscious when the killer slashed her throat. This is because it's unusual for people who are injured in that way to not touch their wounds in response.

Delphi trial jurors hear from blood specialist who says Libby German was likely dragged

The third week in the double-murder trial of Richard Allen began with testimonies from a forensic scientist and a blood specialist.

www.jconline.com

Thanks. But he wasn’t at the scene, was he? He’s a blood spatter guy - I’m not sure restraints are within his area of expertise but thanks again!

 

[Melted]

I’m completely sickened by the way Richard Allen was treated before his constitutional right to a fair trial.

The fact that this happened in America should terrify everyone here

The fact they let these psychotic ramblings into evidence as confessions is equally appalling

Jmo

 

[MiniMoo]

Quite a noble guy, that RA.
Though an innocent man, he would be willing to accept LWOP in prison to spare his spouse the pressure of his trial.

Look at that character on the Green Mile that was innocent yet he chose the path he did even though...

There are a number of cases where a convicted person and their families have paid the price of guilty when they were in fact innocent.

I need to know without a doubt that the right man is on trial in Delphi.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[snooptroop88]

Thanks. But he wasn’t at the scene, was he? He’s a blood spatter guy - I’m not sure restraints are within his area of expertise but thanks again!

Understood, but he's discussing it in the context with flow of blood, so I'd guess that's why his testimony was permitted (moo).

 

[shonyakay]

I’m completely sickened by the way Richard Allen was treated before his constitutional right to a fair trial.

The fact that this happened in America should terrify everyone here

The fact they let these psychotic ramblings into evidence as confessions is equally appalling

Jmo

Are you forgetting about the 2024 confession (when he was not psychotic) where he was witnessed crying on the bed and said that he was sorry he killed the girls'?

 

[MiniMoo]

WISH TV is reporting that at the end of the interrogation video:

Allen says “arrest me or take me home, I’m done, you’re not going to find anything that connects me to the murders. you’ve lost my trust, now you’ve pissed me off, you’re an (expletive).

In the video, Allen gets up and leaves. News 8’s Kyla Russel says at this point in the courtroom, there is laughter.
Source: Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

My thought...Interesting reaction in the courtroom.

Did he really say:

"You've lost my trust."

JAAQ - Just Asking A Question.

 

[sunshineray]

I think that’s a huge part of how we get wrongful convictions that end up overturned later. People do make false confessions. It’s not unheard of even if it seems illogical to some. It makes sense to me in some cases - maybe they want to give up fighting (depression). Maybe they are medicated. Or need it and aren’t. Maybe they’re scared in prison or scared of being released. I don’t know why really, but false confessions do happen and unfortunately often times jurors believe them only to learn later they were false. Moo. A quote for those interested followed by a link to the source:

“According to the National Registry of Exonerations, there have been over 2,500 exonerations since 1989, representing more than 23,950 years that innocent Americans spent in prison. Surprisingly, approximately 12% of these defendants had falsely confessed to committing the crime. This indicates not only that false confessions happen, but that hundreds of people have falsely confessed to crimes that they did not commit.”

The Psychology of False Confessions

Why would an innocent person, in his right mind, confess to a crime that he did not commit? The answer may surprise you.

www.psychologytoday.com

In this case I couldn't disagree with that more. There was no coercion, no browbeating under interrogation, RA's conditions were better than most others and his anxiety and depression were not severe enough or genuine enough to warrant thinking he's been strong armed into falsely confessing.

No his problem was the guilt and not wanting to go to h e l l for eternity. That's what ISP Harshman heard over and over. His mental health doctor herself said RA was faking it and the guards trained to spot honest changes in demeaner and deceivers.

I've never been more sure that RA has confessed the truth. He's not an innocent man. He's not been wrongly accused of Abby and Libby's murders. He killed them, just like he said and there's more evidence of his want to atone to come. AJMO