Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #207

[Melted]

Respectfully, couldn't disagree more.

What part of it do you disagree with?

 

[Boxer]

RSBM

The burden of proof falls on the state not Richard Allen.

MOO the state has proved that BARD.

 

[sunshineray]

They kept a man that has never been convicted of a crime in solitary confinement in a maximum security prison for 13 months and are using his psychotic ramblings as evidence against him.

This is quite literally unheard of in our justice system and I truly expect severe consequences to come down on people for violations of Richard Allen’s constitutional rights.

JMO

Well to be fair, his attorneys had something to do with the length of RA's pre-trial stay as far as delays go. His having no bail is appropriate for the double murders he's charged with. MO
If RA had been placed in county jail with barely any mental health care and not segregated from the others, he may have either harmed himself or others could have done him harm. Can you imagine the uproar if either of those had happened!? AJMO

 

[lisette]

The truth is that it doesn’t matter what we think. We are not in the court room, seeing the evidence and hearing the witnesses. I trust that this jury will get it right. They seem to be very smart, reasonable people. I don’t believe that LE and the prosecution would have brought this man to trial if they didn’t really think that he had done this. And I can’t see that he was mistreated… They tried to put him in a safe place so that he would not harm himself or be harmed by others. From the limited information that we have been allowed to hear, I believe that this man did these horrible, horrible things to these two girls and should pay the penalty for his actions. And I believe that he knows he did it too. But, again, it is not up to me, I will trust the jury. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

What part of it do you disagree with?

My response to a simular post as yours explains my views, Bringing it forward.

In this case I couldn't disagree with that more. There was no coercion, no browbeating under interrogation, RA's conditions were better than most others and his anxiety and depression were not severe enough or genuine enough to warrant thinking he's been strong armed into falsely confessing.

No his problem was the guilt and not wanting to go to h e l l for eternity. That's what ISP Harshman heard over and over. His mental health doctor herself said RA was faking it and the guards trained to spot honest changes in demeaner and deceivers.

I've never been more sure that RA has confessed the truth. He's not an innocent man. He's not been wrongly accused of Abby and Libby's murders. He killed them, just like he said and there's more evidence of his want to atone to come. AJMO

 

[MassGuy]

They kept a man that has never been convicted of a crime in solitary confinement in a maximum security prison for 13 months and are using his psychotic ramblings as evidence against him.

This is quite literally unheard of in our justice system and I truly expect severe consequences to come down on people for violations of Richard Allen’s constitutional rights.

JMO

I suppose they could have held him in county jail, but if they did we very well might not be talking about this case today. Suicide watch is not pretty, and the circumstances here were not of your run-of-the-mill murderer. This was a very unique set of circumstances, and I can understand why most jails wouldn't be equipped to handle something like this.

He had tried to kill himself. He talked about killing himself. He was undoubtedly a threat to himself.

We do not know if he was faking these episodes, or if he was truly in the throes of a mental health crisis. The defense and their surrogates are obviously pushing the latter hard, but we're not there to see what the jury sees. And they'll be the ones to decide what they believe as far as these confessions go.

They haven't gotten to the good ones yet; the ones that the jury will actually be able to hear. So I take it you no longer think this is "game over?"

 

[Melted]

Well to be fair, his attorneys had something to do with the length of RA's pre-trial stay as far as delays go. His having no bail is appropriate for the double murders he's charged with. MO
If RA had been placed in county jail with barely any mental health care and not segregated from the others, he may have either harmed himself or others could have done him harm. Can you imagine the uproar if either of those had happened!? AJMO

To help put this in perspective the UN’s law is as follows

“UN Nelson Mandela Rules
These rules prohibit the indefinite or prolonged use of solitary confinement, and define 15 continuous days or longer in solitary as torture.”

Mind you that he was in solitary confinement for 13 months. This law was written to try to keep 3rd world countries from being able to torture prisoners with solitary confinement, again, Richard Allen has never been convicted of a crime.

JMO

The Nelson Mandela Rules: Protecting the Rights of Persons Deprived of Liberty | United Nations

The Nelson Mandela Rules emphasize that the provision of health care for prisoners is a State responsibility, and that the relationship between health-care professionals and prisoners is governed by the same ethical and professional standards as those applicable to patients in the community...

www.un.org

 

[photographer4]

The truth is that it doesn’t matter what we think. We are not in the court room, seeing the evidence and hearing the witnesses. I trust that this jury will get it right. They seem to be very smart, reasonable people. I don’t believe that LE and the prosecution would have brought this man to trial if they didn’t really think that he had done this. And I can’t see that he was mistreated… They tried to put him in a safe place so that he would not harm himself or be harmed by others. From the limited information that we have been allowed to hear, I believe that this man did these horrible, horrible things to these two girls and should pay the penalty for his actions. And I believe that he knows he did it too. But, again, it is not up to me, I will trust the jury. JMO

I can only hope they get it right. I imagine there will be some uproar if they acquit and some if they find guilty given the divide I’ve noticed on this case (moo).

 

[rez125]

My response to a simular post as yours explains my views, Bringing it forward.

In this case I couldn't disagree with that more. There was no coercion, no browbeating under interrogation, RA's conditions were better than most others and his anxiety and depression were not severe enough or genuine enough to warrant thinking he's been strong armed into falsely confessing.

No his problem was the guilt and not wanting to go to h e l l for eternity. That's what ISP Harshman heard over and over. His mental health doctor herself said RA was faking it and the guards trained to spot honest changes in demeaner and deceivers.

I've never been more sure that RA has confessed the truth. He's not an innocent man. He's not been wrongly accused of Abby and Libby's murders. He killed them, just like he said and there's more evidence of his want to atone to come. AJMO

"Better than most others".

Except the "others" have been convicted of a crime. Still doesn't make the conditions there acceptable.

RA has not.

 

[Melted]

They haven't gotten to the good ones yet; the ones that the jury will actually be able to hear. So I take it you no longer think this is "game over?"

SBM

No, I made it clear earlier that IF those were recorded then it would be game over for Richard Allen. But as it turns out it was just the notes from prison guards listening to a man in the middle of psychosis.

 

[rez125]

SBM

No, I made it clear earlier that IF those were recorded then it would be game over for Richard Allen. But as it turns out it was just the notes from prison guards listening to a man in the middle of psychosis.

It's embarrassing these were allowed into a court of law.

 

[MassGuy]

SBM

No, I made it clear earlier that IF those were recorded then it would be game over for Richard Allen. But as it turns out it was just the notes from prison guards listening to a man in the middle of psychosis.

How can you tell he was in the middle of psychosis if the people who work with people in the middle of psychosis on a daily basis, couldn't tell themselves?

 

[lisette]

He wasn’t in solitary confinement. He was in a protected environment, under suicidal watch. It wasn’t a punishment. Please don’t fall for that “baloney“ that his lawyers perpetrated.JMO

 

[sunshineray]

To help put this in perspective the UN’s law is as follows

“UN Nelson Mandela Rules
These rules prohibit the indefinite or prolonged use of solitary confinement, and define 15 continuous days or longer in solitary as torture.”

Mind you that he was in solitary confinement for 13 months. This law was written to try to keep 3rd world countries from being able to torture prisoners with solitary confinement, again, Richard Allen has never been convicted of a crime.

JMO

The Nelson Mandela Rules: Protecting the Rights of Persons Deprived of Liberty | United Nations

The Nelson Mandela Rules emphasize that the provision of health care for prisoners is a State responsibility, and that the relationship between health-care professionals and prisoners is governed by the same ethical and professional standards as those applicable to patients in the community...

www.un.org

And like I said, mostly his lawyers fault, IMO. I'm done on the subject as we are certainly at loggerheads. All I say in the subject is all just my opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

"Better than most others".

Except the "others" have been convicted of a crime. Still doesn't make the conditions there acceptable.

RA has not.

Better a live defendant than a dead one.

 

[Melted]

How can you tell he was in the middle of psychosis if the people who work with people in the middle of psychosis on a daily basis, couldn't tell themselves?

His doctor testified at the 3 day hearings that he was suffering from psychosis. These prison guards also called him bashing his head into his cells walls until he was bleeding “just something that he does”

 

[photographer4]

He wasn’t in solitary confinement. He was in a protected environment, under suicidal watch. It wasn’t a punishment. Please don’t fall for that “baloney“ that his lawyers perpetrated.JMO

He was parked in prison absent a conviction is bad enough. The “safekeeping” was a lot of things but safe isn’t how I would describe it. Mooo.

 

[rez125]

He was parked in prison absent a conviction is bad enough. The “safekeeping” was a lot of things but safe isn’t how I would describe it. Mooo.

This has been exposed now regardless - and a spotlight put on this facility.

That's for damn sure.

 

[rez125]

He wasn’t in solitary confinement. He was in a protected environment, under suicidal watch. It wasn’t a punishment. Please don’t fall for that “baloney“ that his lawyers perpetrated.JMO

The only baloney I heard today were these "confessions".

 

[sunshineray]

His doctor testified at the 3 day hearings that he was suffering from psychosis. These prison guards also called him bashing his head into his cells walls until he was bleeding “just something that he does”

She also testified (paraphrasing) he was also playing her, being untruthful with her about his condition.