Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[ClearAhead]

How can you prove he was lying?

I’m not required to prove anything. But you avoided my question - how was RA saying he hadn’t seen Libby or Abby helpful to police (truth or lie)? The reason is to attempt to remove himself as a POI. if he wasn’t the LAST to see them, then gosh he couldn’t have murdered them.

 

[MassGuy]

For the people who believe bridge guy is the murderer, could I just ask what you think beyond a reasonable doubt makes bridge guy the murderer? We see bridge guy in the video, it could be and I think it is RA, what after that proves he was the murderer?

Evidence and logic.

BG clearly abducted the girls, based on the audio in that video. This crime was sloppy and reckless, and showed absolutely no sign of planning. It appears to have been a chance encounter, where he followed them across the bridge and miraculously, no one was out on the trails to see that occur.

The audio seems to indicate that the girls were already trying to get away from him before he reaches them (trying to find a path). He catches up and shows them the gun, guiding them down the hill. Every part of this wreaks of a crime of opportunity perpetrated by a lone individual who came prepared for such an opportunity. By the very nature of that, there would be no accomplice.

The crime scene solidifies this for me, as with multiple offenders there's no reason to cycle a round (likely to force further compliance). The girls are killed with the same type of wounds, to the same areas of the body. The blood evidence indicates that Libby attempted to flee, which would be incredibly unlikely if BG had help.

So you'd have two people with the same motive (obviously sexual), and neither of them leaves any overt signs of carrying out a sex act. Neither of them leave DNA. Only one man is ever spotted.

I believe Allen when he said he was drinking that day, encountered the girls planning on raping them, and slit their throats with a boxcutter after he was disrupted by a van.

These types of crimes are almost invariably one man. I'm convinced that's the case here.

 

[photographer4]

Basically the only man on the bridge during that time frame by RA's own admission. I guess video evidence isn't enough for some if it has been enlarged as if that somehow changes the original. And actually, BG was identified by one person in particular to a T. RA discribed himself perfectly. MOO

The only man we know of on the bridge. We don't know BARD that someone else wasn't at the south end of the bridge - maybe came up from there and it started that way (moo). Him simply being on the bridge doesn't mean he was the abductor or the killer moo.

 

[Pennysmom1]

Even the 95 or 100 lbs that Abby was (I've seen both listed for her) is difficult when it's dead weight. Not the easiest thing in the world to do. As for Libby... I honestly can't imagine even 2 men being able to move 200 lbs of dead weight. It would be difficult at best, but on that terrain? No way, no how, IMO.

Figure in some adrenaline and desperation, I don't think he had a problem.

 

[katydid23]

How can you prove he was lying?

Because he said he never saw them, but Libby took a picture of him walking towards them, and took video of him following them, then ordering them down the hill. IMO

 

[misantha]

I usually don’t post but I really enjoy reading everyone’s posts. I agree with some that each piece of evidence has issues. I personally don’t think it is a strong case, especially without the confessions. However, I do believe he is guilty looking at all the evidence as a whole.

I was looking forward to hearing the defense’s case. I have been disappointed so far since I haven’t heard anything that refutes the timeline, that BG is not the killer, or RA is not BG.

I believe that in the opening the DT said RA was gone from the trails by 2:15(not sure of time). So I have been waiting for some digital or witness testimony to indicate he was somewhere else in the 2:00-4:00 timeframe.

 

[flashy09]

Figure in some adrenaline and desperation, I don't think he had a problem.

Ok, I just tried this out and dragged someone 72 lbs heavier than me across the room.

 

[Crazyjster]

Evidence and logic.

BG clearly abducted the girls, based on the audio in that video. This crime was sloppy and reckless, and showed absolutely no sign of planning. It appears to have been a chance encounter, where he followed them across the bridge and miraculously, no one was out on the trails to see that occur.

The audio seems to indicate that the girls were already trying to get away from him before he reaches them (trying to find a path). He catches up and shows them the gun, guiding them down the hill. Every part of this wreaks of a crime of opportunity perpetrated by a lone individual who came prepared for such an opportunity. By the very nature of that, there would be no accomplice.

The crime scene solidifies this for me, as with multiple offenders there's no reason to cycle a round (likely to force further compliance). The girls are killed with the same type of wounds, to the same areas of the body. The blood evidence indicates that Libby attempted to flee, which would be incredibly unlikely if BG had help.

So you'd have two people with the same motive (obviously sexual), and neither of them leaves any overt signs of carrying out a sex act. Neither of them leave DNA. Only one man is ever spotted.

I believe Allen when he said he was drinking that day, encountered the girls planning on raping them, and slit their throats with a boxcutter after he was disrupted by a van.

These types of crimes are almost invariably one man. I'm convinced that's the case here.

I completely agree...however there is not enough evidence to prove BG is RA IMO...the State is lacking physical evidence and I do not think RA is that much of a genius that he could have done this and not left some evidence behind. The bullet is not strong enough evidence...the audio and video requires to much speculation...and the confessions happened after he saw the info from discovery...the prosecution needs more.

 

[katydid23]

The only man we know of on the bridge. We don't know BARD that someone else wasn't at the south end of the bridge - maybe came up from there and it started that way (moo). Him simply being on the bridge doesn't mean he was the abductor or the killer moo.

The video that Libby took proves that it was BG. It was not some other unknown, unseen man at the end of the bridge because there was not enough time for that to happen. The video explicitly shows it was BG who ordered them down the hill. There was no time within that 43 seconds for some other possible killer to traverse that bridge and come up and kidnap the girls.

Besides, if a random guy came along, and saw 2 young girls with an adult male, is that random guy going to try and kidnap the girls with that man there too? What if it's their Dad or uncle? Nobody would try that. IMO

And let's just say someone else did kidnap the girls somehow---why didn't BG try to stop them? Why didn't BG call 911 or report the kidnapping?

I think your scenario that some other guy came up from other end and kidnapped the girls falls flat. IMO

 

[katydid23]

Ok, I just tried this out and dragged someone 72 lbs heavier than me across the room.

I love the experiments that WS spurs us to try...Uh, did they ask you why you wanted to drag them across the floor?

 

[Inthedetails]

Yes, RA wanted to know what LE knew. He inserted himself into the situation to cover his bum because he saw the 3/4 girls and he knew they had seen him passing on the Freedom trail. Oh, and because his wife told him to. lol

JMO

I think he came forward because what if he didn't and someone placed him there? It would look way WORSE for him if LE figured out he was there and asked him why he didn't come forward. RA didn't know LE wouldn't find out he was there so it was much better to offer the info early than to hide it.

RA likely told his wife he was in the park that day, but not on the bridge, and she urged him to tell LE.

And that was that.

jmo

 

[MassGuy]

But if there is no evidence RA was actually involved, why should he have to be convicted? Just because someone has to pay? Last I checked we do not convict based on emotion.

This has nothing to do with emotion. If someone had to pay, they had no shortage of better suspects (on paper) over the years. They were sex offenders, convicted felons, men known to be violent.

How they came to Allen was completely organic. An interview was misfiled and when law enforcement realized that, they had an "Oh S*** moment." That man could have very well been the killer, as they had tracked down pretty much (if not all) of the people who had been there that day, via self reporting or geofence data.

That, along with another interview, only furthered the likelihood that they had their man. His timeline matched, his clothing matched, he indicated that he likely saw the same group of witnesses who saw him. Finally, his gun matched.

This man was Googling the Delphi case. He would have known about that photo and its origins. When confronted with this, he doesn't say the image isn't him. He says that if the girls took that photo, it isn't him. That makes absolutely no logical sense. It's him and he just doesn't want to say.

He claimed that he was walking the trails looking at stock quotes. No geofence data for Richard Allen exists, and it absolutely should (his phone had to have been off if he even had it).

He's the one who mentioned a boxcutter being the murder weapon, and revealed what he did with it.

He's the one who says how this all came to be (drinking beer, planning on rape, etc).

He's the one who said he was interrupted by a van, which makes sense of the crime scene and why he didn't rape the girls.

Believe this stuff. Don't believe this stuff. It has nothing to do with "emotion."

 

[Arkay]

That is the part I just do not understand (dragging her body to be parallel with Abby's). For what purpose? There had to be a purpose in the killer(s) mind(s). Otherwise, why not just leave her where she dropped to the ground? Why not drag Abby, who would have been easier to drag, over by Libby? Just why not leave them where they died?! I can't wrap my head around their reasoning.

IMO, @Gemmie , it’s because you’re not a murderer and therefore you don’t have the same disordered thinking that propels someone to do this.

I agree he had to have a purpose, but I don’t believe any of us nonviolent people can know what was in his head.

Maybe he had some fantasy picture of how he wanted them, and that compelled him to attempt to place them to his satisfaction.

Or maybe he thought he could drag them and bury them but found it too physically challenging to drag them any further.

Maybe he heard voices in his head telling him what to do.

Or else something frenzied that we can’t even begin to imagine or comprehend.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

@MaxLewisTV

We got some new sketches today from inside the courtroom of the Delphi Murders Trial. This one shows the large screen pointed away from the public so only the jury can see videos of Richard Allen inside an Indiana prison.

(Courtesy: Li Buszka)


This is of Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter who took the stand today to talk about the FBI's role in the investigation. He kicked them off the investigation in August 2021.

(Courtesy: Li Buszka)




This is one of Richard Allen as he sits next to his defense attorney Andrew Baldwin. Allen often looks back into the gallery to see his family members.

(Courtesy: Li Buszka)




Here's some more details of what happened today in court

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852814993856528709

DELPHI, Ind. – Video of Richard Allen during his time at Westville Correctional Facility left some jurors “aghast” and one defense attorney “staring in horror.”

https://cbs4indy.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-jurors-react-to-video-of-richard-allen-in-custody/

Updated: Nov 2, 2024 / 05:09 PM EDT

 

[MassGuy]

I completely agree...however there is not enough evidence to prove BG is RA IMO...the State is lacking physical evidence and I do not think RA is that much of a genius that he could have done this and not left some evidence behind. The bullet is not strong enough evidence...the audio and video requires to much speculation...and the confessions happened after he saw the info from discovery...the prosecution needs more.

They'll never have more, that's just the nature of the crime. This didn't require anyone to be particularly smart, and the crime itself tells us this person was not. It was insanely risky, and he was just asking to get caught. Because he didn't commit rape, and didn't cut himself (like he would have been more likely to do had he used a knife), there was no realistic hope of obtaining DNA evidence, especially because this was an outdoor crime scene.

They'll never have remotely close to the same amount of evidence they have against Allen, so if he is found not guilty, this case will remain without another arrest forever.

 

[Inthedetails]

Well said. I can’t rule out KAK’s involvement completely - but if so it would be as an instigator - like providing details of Libby’s location. See KAK isn’t just a liar - he is also a thoroughly unpleasant person who likes to be the puppetmaster. And seems to have a sadist streak if nothing else.

I wouldn’t put it past him to ”unleash” this strange histrionic rapist RA on innocent girls. But I have no evidence for that at all. It’s just occurred to me because of the strange timing. On the other hand maybe RA walked to the bridge every week for ten years prepared to strike if an opportunity arose. He is weird enough.

IMO

At one point, I thought KK was involved, likely as a catfisher. I no longer think that.

And one big reason is - why wouldn't RA implicate him now? Why make up Odinist theories if there was an actual, real-life, conspirator?

I think KK belongs behind bars forever and ever, but I don't think he was working with beer-drinking RA who went to the bridge one day and waited for victim(s) to walk by.

jmo

 

[arielilane]

Kicking out the most resourceful intelligent agency in the U.S.!!! Dumb!!!
I try to be kind, but, its now been confirmed why I never cared for DC. moo
https://x.com/MaxLewisTV
@MaxLewisTV

This is of Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter who took the stand today to talk about the FBI's role in the investigation. He kicked them off the investigation in August 2021.

 

[katydid23]

I completely agree...however there is not enough evidence to prove BG is RA IMO...the State is lacking physical evidence and I do not think RA is that much of a genius that he could have done this and not left some evidence behind.

You don't have to be a genius, just lucky enough that they misfiled the tip for 5 years. That's plenty of time for even an idiot to get rid of anything incriminating.

The bullet is not strong enough evidence...

Not by itself, but it is just one more brick in the wall.

the audio and video requires too much speculation...

I don't think so. His body looks exactly like the video, even his face matches, or can't be discounted. And people in court yesterday said his voice in confession video perfectly matched voice of BG video.

and the confessions happened after he saw the info from discovery...

So? That doesn't negate that he confessed over 60 times to a dozen people.

And he confessed to his wife and mother, in a calm and measured way, under no duress. And pushed back when they tried to deny his claims. Those confessions seemed sincere and genuine to me.

And the Weber's white van was not in Discovery. And that little detail corroborates the 2 crime scenes.

Plus his comments to his therapist about his being molested as a child and then going on to molest others himself. And his being a life long alcoholic while also being on prozac. That makes me think he could be capable of doing something so volatile because of all that toxic traumatic childhood stuff.

the prosecution needs more.

I think they have more than we realise because we were not in court everyday. IMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Figure in some adrenaline and desperation, I don't think he had a problem.

100%! And dragging is easier than lifting to carry.

My dad was bigger than RA but he was not a big man - but had so much upper body strength, even as an old man! Don't underestimate a grown man's strength, imo.

I totally think RA could drag bodies on the ground, especially with a rush of adrenaline, excitement, and fear.

jmo

 

[statt#1]

So RA admits to being on that bridge. But folks don't think it's him in the BG video taken by Libby. I wonder if he lied about admitting he was on that bridge....why would he do that. But if he was indeed on the bridge like he says he was, but it wasn't him in the video, the guy that goes by the moniker BG, then.... That means someone else walked out on the bridge, either past him, or from the other end, past Libby, who was recording, and then this some other person also walked past Abby, then turned around and magically appeared in the video being taken by Libby, coming at her and Abby.

But RA admits to being on the bridge. And several folks speak of seeing a man dressed in like manner to what RA claims he was dressed.

So, those witnesses are testifying to seeing someone who was dressed like RA says he was dressed, but it was someone else, who was dressed the way RA and the witnesses say he was dressed, but RA never says there was a guy on the bridge that looks like BG and was dressed the same way he was dressed that day.

So, BG, looks like RA says he himself looked, and BG, looks like the witnesses say he looked, and BG was on the bridge like RA says he was, but it ain't RA, and RA doesn't mention any other guy that looks like RA says he looked that day.

I think I got it now. My opinion only.