Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[photographer4]

I agree with everything you say. I just don’t understand why his defense team didn’t persuade him to take a plea deal and get it over with.

Why put everyone involved through the emotional pain of a trial with elaborate conspiracy theories? How did it get so far as to make a jury needlessly sit through days of gruesome, horrific evidence?

I suppose it means that RA, while loving and devoted to his God and wife and mother still doesn’t give a darn about his young victims and their families.

That’s my conclusion. He not only killed them, he still feels no empathy for them. He’s only regretful of the inconvenience it caused himself and his family. Given the chance to do it again, he would. JMO

If I were his lawyer, knowing how shoddy the original investigation was, I would not advise him to seek a plea deal. Even if I thought he was guilty, I would advise him that his best chance would be to go to trial. If convicted, he can appeal if he does not take a deal - can he get an appeal if he takes a plea deal? I'm not sure he can but I'm not a lawyer so I am actually asking.

Even the original investigation errors aside, their investigation of, and treatment of him since 2022 has been horrific imo. Add to that the issues with Wala being his prison psychologist and the issues she introduced to the case? I'd be doing exactly what his team are doing - pursuing trial and appeals on conviction. I wouldn't even have hired another psychologist to assess him - why bother when Wala makes their job so easy? MOO.

Its not defense counsel's job to care about the victims or their loved ones. That is not to say they do not / cannot care about them, however, their job, their sole responsibility is RA and what is in HIS best interest, even if that causes upset or hurt to the loved ones left behind and the community at large. Imo a plea deal would not have been in HIS best interest. MOO.

 

[Salah11]

IMO I think it’s also possible to understand this info from the opposite perspective. Speculation for how and this isn’t necessarily my opinion: A normally functioning person still polite and calm while he’s sure this mistaken arrest will be ameliorated. That takes immense patience. But he does have a history of mental health issues, and once confronted with the state’s case against him the reality of his situation sinks in. How did his bullet wind up at the crime scene? The timelines line up. Well crap this might not be so easy to fix after all. So he panics and loses his marbles for lack of a kinder or more accurate phrase. (And this part I do believe; I do believe he was truly psychotic regardless of whether he’s a murderer and of the reason behind his psychosis.). But he could have become psychotic out of fear and the belief that he was doomed even if he didn’t do it. Also, his psychosis didn’t just disappear. He was given Haldol, which is a pretty potent anti-psychotic drug. He regains a grip on reality, gets talked down from his ledge, and regains confidence in his ability to get through this situation. All to say, I don’t think that the pattern of his mental health points to his guilt. I also think we need to keep in mind that the psych on the stand said someone who can tell a chronological and organized story is LESS LIKELY to be psychotic. It doesn’t mean they can’t be. All JMO, speculation, and a hypothetical.

Or he did it and the reality and lack of booze in jail meant he suddenly couldn’t cope with the reality’s of the situation as he had always used booze to self medicate.

IMO

 

[Boxer]

And he has access to a iPad 24/7 didn’t he?

He could make calls and when he broke it in a fit of temper ( he certainly loves to do that) he got it replaced.

Moo

Angry - breaking - wierd - manipulative.

 

[getthefax]

Yeah my post didn’t mention the van color because it’s not at all clear if during this confession Dr Wala testified to, if RA said “white” van and in some main stream media it’s not even clear if Dr Wala said “van” or “man”-so there’s that.
Like I said, there was nothing in his confession that only the killer would have known-not even the van

Delphi murders: Witness testimony may lend legitimacy to Richard Allen’s prison confession

DELPHI, Ind. — New witness testimony may add credence to a confession made by Richard Allen to a prison psychologist. Allen is charged with multiple counts of murder in the brutal killings of Abby …

fox59.com

I agree. I originally 100% thought RA was totally guilty, but nothing about the evidence presented has me convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.

RA visited the amHB all the time. Wouldn’t it have been possible for him to have seen BW’s van on a different visit to the bridge, so he just knew one drove around there?

I believe he most likely did it— but the prosecution made so many errors, and left so many details unprocessed/bungled, and enough evidence was “lost or unavailable” that it really has me on the fence. I’m not a “fan” of anyone—I’d just like to feel more settled about it.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I agree. I originally 100% thought RA was totally guilty, but nothing about the evidence presented has me convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.

RA visited the amHB all the time. Wouldn’t it have been possible for him to have seen BW’s van on a different visit to the bridge, so he just knew one drove around there?

I believe he most likely did it— but the prosecution made so many errors, and left so many details unprocessed/bungled, and enough evidence was “lost or unavailable” that it really has me on the fence. I’m not a “fan” of anyone—I’d just like to feel more settled about it.

Does the absence of an alibi concern you? Does the absence of his phone in the geofence from that afternoon 12-5 concern you?

It does me. JMO

 

[Arkay]

We have arrived at a place where *most* of the important evidence is in. Thus the conversation has drifted into what is “reasonable.” OK, we’ve been doing a lot of that all along.

One person’s reasonable is another person’s “That dude just ain’t goin’ there.” The “not BARD” party finds grounds to disallow every single item of evidence. The “it’s easily BARD” party by this point is wondering what it would take to accumulate a preponderance of evidence if every item added is summarily dismissed and never juxtaposed with any others.

One recurring answer is DNA. But there will not be DNA in many cases. There is no DNA in the case of these murdered girls and it’s not likely coming.

So we have to be willing to see patterns in data of which no one item is beyond critique. Some are seeing a pattern first outlined in the PCA. Some are seeing a pattern of “rush to judgment” if not outright conspiracy.

I’ve been willing to believe a man who assaulted and attempted to murder a young girl was the culprit in this case. Even when I learned the investigators were telling the family it wasn’t him, I thought they were wrong.

Then I learned about the catfishers. THEN I abandoned that other guy and figured this was obviously the big break. Even when I learned the investigators were giving up on that angle, I once again couldn’t believe my ears. Not for some time.

So I’m not in a conspiracy against RA and really don’t think there is one. The pattern is not one of people being out to get RA. I don’t see a rush to judgment either. LE waited patiently under years of criticism until at last pieces fell into place.

The pattern I saw and still see was outlined in the PCA.

Well-said, @WildHuncher.

One thing upon which we all agree as indisputable is that Abby and Libby were murdered.

We know SOMEONE did that.

RA’s DNA isn’t there. That’s weird, right? But NO ONE’S DNA WAS FOUND.

Does that mean NO ONE killed them?

There was no DNA found from EF’s spit. There was no DNA found from Odinists. There was no DNA found from any of the original suspects like RL or KAK. There is just no DNA uncovered at all.

Yet Abby and Libby were in fact murdered, so we must rely then on the other evidence.

Who stated he was there? Who appears in Abby’s video? Who’s confessed to loved ones and in written statements? Whose bullet was found, nestled between the girls’ bodies?

It would be impossible IMO for someone to have come along later, after their bodies were removed and the crime scene was secured, and placed a bullet “just so” without knowing exactly where the girls had lain.


JMO

 

[Davemac1]

Has the defense provided an alibi for RA yet for 2/13/17 between 2-3:30?

I haven’t heard an inkling of an alibi yet for any part of his day after he visited his mom in Peru.
Did I miss it?

Don't think so.
Also, I doubt they are going to let him take the stand.. That's always been a bit of a red flag to me. If you believe you are innocent, the chance to convey it to a jury would be high on my 'to do' list of I was in the dock.

 

[Elley Mae]

You have the Presumption of Innocent until Proven Guilty.

 

[photographer4]

If anyone knew the voice of RA it would Harshman after listening to over 700 hours of taped conversation. He absolutely could give an educated opinion on the voice he heard.

JMO

I'm not a lawyer, but, I do not believe Harshman can give and "educated opinion" on RA's voice or whether it is a match to the voice on LG's video because he is not credentialed in the field of voice analysis or anything even adjacent to that imo -

"... a medical expert can offer insight into the injuries discussed in the case, while a forensic expert can give an educated opinion of evidence found at the crime scene. Other types of expert witnesses include financial, vocational, ballistics, and mental health experts...."

Mastering Criminal Defense: A Guide for Lawyers -

Are you a criminal defense lawyer hoping to be more effective at defending clients? Get to know some strategies for mastering criminal defense.

scwestonlaw.com

2: "Experts are the only witnesses who are allowed to give evidence about their opinions. These may include mechanics, doctors, engineers, appraisers, carpenters, repairmen, psychiatrists, psychologists, or other."

Witnesses

 

[acehard]

.... I also think we need to keep in mind that the psych on the stand said someone who can tell a chronological and organized story is LESS LIKELY to be psychotic. It doesn’t mean they can’t be. All JMO, speculation, and a hypothetical.

The same psych is also the one who gave the "chronological and organized story" confession without any corroboration other than her own word. Her credibility was proven to be not great. This is what makes the case complicated. Everything is subjective. Only the jury has first hand information about the proceedings and will be the best judge. MOO

 

[Boxer]

BASr

We have arrived at a place where *most* of the important evidence is in. Thus the conversation has drifted into what is “reasonable.” OK, we’ve been doing a lot of that all along.

One person’s reasonable is another person’s “That dude just ain’t goin’ there.” The “not BARD” party finds grounds to disallow every single item of evidence. The “it’s easily BARD” party by this point is wondering what it would take to accumulate a preponderance of evidence if every item added is summarily dismissed and never juxtaposed with any others.

One recurring answer is DNA. But there will not be DNA in many cases. There is no DNA in the case of these murdered girls and it’s not likely coming.

So we have to be willing to see patterns in data of which no one item is beyond critique. Some are seeing a pattern first outlined in the PCA. Some are seeing a pattern of “rush to judgment” if not outright conspiracy.

I’ve been willing to believe a man who assaulted and attempted to murder a young girl was the culprit in this case. Even when I learned the investigators were telling the family it wasn’t him, I thought they were wrong.

Then I learned about the catfishers. THEN I abandoned that other guy and figured this was obviously the big break. Even when I learned the investigators were giving up on that angle, I once again couldn’t believe my ears. Not for some time.

So I’m not in a conspiracy against RA and really don’t think there is one. The pattern is not one of people being out to get RA. I don’t see a rush to judgment either. LE waited patiently under years of criticism until at last pieces fell into place.

The pattern I saw and still see was outlined in the PCA.

BARD has been defined as you yourself making a large decision on the evidence. This is meant to give the jury a tool to clarify their thinking.

For example lets say behind the scenes it is known whether RA is guilty or not-

You have to place a bet of 100k on either guilty or not guilty, and after you bet the answer will be revealed.

 

[Warwick7]

Here's a recent video from Grey Hughes showing the movements of Abby & Libby, Richard Allen and all the witnesses. He also includes the movement of BW's white van.

Well if anyone was wondering if RA was really watching fish, this video shows there is no way possible he saw any fish.

 

[Boxer]

I'm not a lawyer, but, I do not believe Harshman can give and "educated opinion" on RA's voice or whether it is a match to the voice on LG's video because he is not credentialed in the field of voice analysis or anything even adjacent to that imo -

"... a medical expert can offer insight into the injuries discussed in the case, while a forensic expert can give an educated opinion of evidence found at the crime scene. Other types of expert witnesses include financial, vocational, ballistics, and mental health experts...."

Mastering Criminal Defense: A Guide for Lawyers -

Are you a criminal defense lawyer hoping to be more effective at defending clients? Get to know some strategies for mastering criminal defense.

scwestonlaw.com

2: "Experts are the only witnesses who are allowed to give evidence about their opinions. These may include mechanics, doctors, engineers, appraisers, carpenters, repairmen, psychiatrists, psychologists, or other."

Witnesses

I can give an my opinion on the voice.
It is as close a match as there is. Not definitive, for instance it could be someone else with an extremely similar voice.

However not just a local voice, for instance, it was not RL's voice with his similar accent, due an obvious individual lilt.

 

[gremlin444]

You know, I don't think I've ever seen anyone ask this question...

Hey, @INfisherman --how active would you expect fish to be in those temps in that body of water in mid February?

 

[BUF]

Looking ahead to this week, I am eagerly awaiting the prosecutors cross examination of the videos the defense has shown of RA in custody. They have said that they will do their cross once all the videos are shown.

I am still disturbed that they were not shown to the courtroom…and without sound, and without context….from the little that has been reported.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Does the absence of an alibi concern you? Does the absence of his phone in the geofence from that afternoon 12-5 concern you?

It does me. JMO

Do we have the official time of the geofence? Did that finally get presented? Sorry if I messed it - I’m seriously behind on this thread - TIA

 

[photographer4]

beyond reasonable doubt - this is the key phrase to bear in mind

it is not as complicated as it's sometimes portrayed

is there no viable,possible alternative to the scenario of RA being the person who murdered these girls?

any possible realistic,viable alternative scenario would be the very definition of reasonable doubt

otherwise he MUST be found guilty.

problem is that i'm not totally convinced that 12 jurors will all find no reasonable alternative - just my own musings.

I would not find him guilty given what I know about the investigation at this point. I do not believe the investigation was handled well, or even in any sort of organized fashion.
- outright failed to collect the sticks until weeks post crime - how do you re-secure a crime scene after its been visited by an untold number of people? Why did they leave them there at all?
- Dan Dulin did not record the interview with RA - why not? He said in an article I linked last night - he had not started to use his voice recorded yet at that point - really? Why not? That article further noted that he found his notes on his computer and THEN submitted them. This made me wonder, did he NOT submit them originally in 2017?? If not, why not?
- Interview recordings have been lost / recorded over from the beginning of the investigation.
- Police seem to have ongoing tech issues because they STILL can't get the recordings to work for the interview of RA in 2022?? Really??
- They threw him into Westville and did who knows what to his medications.
- Wala is a disaster as we all know, and her statements can't really be granted trust imo....
- the 'confessions' were lacking imo - flimsy and devoid of details that only the killer would know (imo).

Even if we remove theories of SODDI - I can't find RA guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in the presence of such lousy police work and given Wala's involvement and his treatment in prison where imo he was clearlly quite unwell. I'm sorry. I just can't. But when we add SODDI back in? Yeah... I see it. It is POSSIBLE that someone snatched the kids off the south side of the bridge and RA was gone or didn't see it happen. Its not been proven BARD to me that he did this.

MOOOOO.

 

[Crazyjster]

The same psych is also the one who gave the "chronological and organized story" confession without any corroboration other than her own word. Her credibility was proven to be not great. This is what makes the case complicated. Everything is subjective. Only the jury has first hand information about the proceedings and will be the best judge. MOO

The psych scares me...she seems like a "fan" of her client and I could go down some inappropriate and unethical roads...I'm just hoping that my brain is speculating...psychology is subjective, it was her job to make it less subjective and more quantifiable if that is possible. She did not do that IMO and I feel she left people with more questions

 

[Davemac1]

Also , what does someone do at those trails for over 2-3 hrs? And hardly sees anyone, apart from 'those 3 girls' when there for all that time?

 

[rosesfromangels]

The psych scares me...she seems like a "fan" of her client and I could go down some inappropriate and unethical roads...I'm just hoping that my brain is speculating...psychology is subjective, it was her job to make it less subjective and more quantifiable if that is possible. She did not do that IMO and I feel she left people with more questions

Doesn't matter. He's going down. Ignore the circus aspects of the trial, and look forward to justice being served. Hopefully to the full extent the law allows.

Amateur opinion and speculation