Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[minor4th]

I agree that forced undressing is SA and it is also a form of control and the fact that the act of r@pe was interrupted per RA confession and physical evidence are distinct from the fact that they were forced to undress- I was referring to the fact that RA said that SA was interrupted due to getting spooked by the van (man) and not is forcing young girls to disrobe is/isnt SA - I would say that it is most definitely SA - moo

I don’t think any physical evidence has been provided that there was an attempted and interrupted R-word.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don’t think any physical evidence has been provided that there was an attempted and interrupted R-word.

Forcing girls to undress shows attempt.

jmo

 

[minor4th]

You don't think his lawyers have been remiss in any way in the handling of RA's case? A man who wants to and has plead guilty to the brutal murders of two girls...his wishes should have been ignored, his lawyers did nothing wrong with the handling of that? He should go free and everything the DT has done in the course of this case has just been zealous, they've done nothing wrong? LE has lied, witnesses have lied, even RA has lied? Mummm, I don't believe it. A guilty man wanted to plea guilty but was not allowed to do so, as simple as that. That is JMO. Respectfully, we're worlds apart in thinking

No indication that he ever wanted to “plead guilty” only that he allegedly confessed - and the reliability of those statements is in doubt. So it could have been an innocent man trying to confess.

I think his lawyers have done a great job, with the deck stacked against them.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I don’t think any physical evidence has been provided that there was an attempted and interrupted R-word.

I think that the absence of evidence of the r-word and the fact that they were undressed along with the confessions of RA that his original intention was SA and it was interrupted are taken together as a plausible explanation that SA was the goal and it didn’t happen as planned-

I wasn’t there, i don’t know what happened and I have serious concerns about due process- and I think that the P made it sound like a slam dunk obvious case BARD and I don’t think that is how this case has played out - and all of that is independent of what I think about RA’s guilt - moo

 

[photographer4]

You don't think his lawyers have been remiss in any way in the handling of RA's case? A man who wants to and has plead guilty to the brutal murders of two girls...his wishes should have been ignored, his lawyers did nothing wrong with the handling of that? He should go free and everything the DT has done in the course of this case has just been zealous, they've done nothing wrong? LE has lied, witnesses have lied, even RA has lied? Mummm, I don't believe it. A guilty man wanted to plea guilty but was not allowed to do so, as simple as that. That is JMO. Respectfully, we're worlds apart in thinking

Do you have a link to show when his lawyers ignored his wishes? If not, your allegation is your opinion and not based on fact. The witnesses - do you have links to show they lied? I believe they saw what they reported. I also believe it is possible they saw someone other than RA. At any rate, while I appreciate a discussion, I think we really are at odds with eachother's views, and that is ok. I'll respectfully bow out of going back and forth with you.

 

[sunshineray]

Were they recorded? If not, why not? I do not buy a single word she says due to her total lack of professionalism on this case! If they were recorded, were they played in court? If not, why not? I'm asking - this isn't moo aside my not taking her word for it... thanks in advance if you happen to know.

Does she normally tape her sessions with convicts? If so, RA is not a convict, he's a defendant, still innocent until proven guilty. She's provably not allowed to tape their sessions.

There was no "total" lack of professionalism in my view, just an error in judgement out of curiosity about someone that has nothing to do with RA's case. Dr W was following the Delphi case well before RA was even arrested. It's funny how many were so keen on Dr W when she was talking about RA's mental health. Even BR loved her...until he didn't.

AJMO

 

[minor4th]

Forcing girls to undress shows attempt.

jmo

I disagree.

I think that the absence of evidence of the r-word and the fact that they were undressed along with the confessions of RA that his original intention was SA and it was interrupted are taken together as a plausible explanation that SA was the goal and it didn’t happen as planned-

I wasn’t there, i don’t know what happened and I have serious concerns about due process- and I think that the P made it sound like a slam dunk obvious case BARD and I don’t think that is how this case has played out - and all of that is independent of what I think about RA’s guilt - moo

its one possibility among others.

 

[ClearAhead]

I wonder if we might hear from any of the jurors after the verdict is in? I'd really love to know what their thoughts have been and what they feel after the trial when they're able to know more such as: the things the judge has ruled can't be included, their feelings about being shown the videos of RA in the prison etc. I don't envy their position - I don't think they can unsee whatever they've seen and I think this trial will follow them for the rest of their lives in some way or another. MOO.

Yes it must be a traumatic experience, that’s for sure. I respect the jurors who stay silent about the verdict they arrived at. No reason to invite additional controversy, once their verdict is given that’s the end of their involvement.

As in our daily lives faced with a major decisions, it’s often impossible to rationalize every thought involved in that process other than the final decision often just feels right. I imagine serving on a jury to be somewhat similar. JMO

 

[minor4th]

By October 13, 2022, prior to RA’s arrest, RA denied he was on the bridge to LE as well. I remember hearing that overheard comment but no idea what was the source, so many possible podcasts and tweets. Probably not significant anyway as his wife apparently supports him. JMO

BBM

Delphi murders: Suspect's confessions, denials in spotlight during trial's second week

Richard Allen repeatedly denied involvement in the 2017 killing of Abigail Williams and Liberty German before he repeatedly confessed.

www.nbcnews.com

When the investigator said the man in the video was wearing the same clothes that Allen had described, Allen replied that such an outfit is common. He’d never met the girls, Allen said.

“I can’t tell you what happened,” he said. “If that picture was taken by those girls, it’s not me. I never met them.”

“You said you were there,” the investigator responded. “You said you walked out to the bridge.”

“No, I didn’t,” Allen said, adding that his words were being “twisted.”

I can see this as a misunderstanding between RA and the investigator. RA said he walked out to the first platform only - I don’t think he was denying he was anywhere on the bridge, only that he didn’t walk very far onto the bridge.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Fair point- back to what was known when from discovery

did he take data from discovery to craft his story and confessions to match discovery

OR did his story match discovery because he was telling the truth and confessing to the crime

moo

Meticulously combing through discovery to craft a believable confession to his family and therapist certainly doesn’t align with the mental diminished state the defense is declaring the defendant was suffering.
Jmo
They can’t have it both ways. Moo

 

[minor4th]

There’s not a new and corrected document, obviously. It was a probable cause affidavit. Once the search is conducted and arrest made, you don’t go back and correct a PCA. This all came out during the 3day hearing and from some testimony during the trial. <modsnip - Rude>

I apologize for being rude.

 

[sunshineray]

There’s not a new and corrected document, obviously. It was a probable cause affidavit. Once the search is conducted and arrest made, you don’t go back and correct a PCA. This all came out during the 3day hearing and from some testimony during the trial. <modsnip - Rude>

Ohh I see now what you were saying. Yes more investigative information led to a better understanding of the timeline. It was still an ongoing investigation after the PCA and up until trial.

 

[minor4th]

Ohh I see now what you were saying. Yes more investigative information led to a better understanding of the timeline. It was still an ongoing investigation after the PCA and up until trial.

Pretty much, yes.

 

[photographer4]

Richard Allen is on trial for nearly decapitating a teen age girl, and for fatally slicing another teenage girl's neck. These murderers were done in the context of sexually assaulting the teenagers (by his own admission).

He is presumed innocent for now, but he's acting like he is guilty, and he is overtly demonstrating that he does not want to spend the remainder of his life in a concrete box with a steel door. Essentially, he seems to be panicking about his current circumstances. After 7 years of carrying his secret that he got away with murder, he must have felt smug. Now, not so much.

Personally, I am entertained by the fact that he is so upset about the consequences of murdering two teenagers. I hope he suffers for the rest of his life.

I have bolded your post for clarity as to what I'm responding to: "acting like he is guilty" is a subjective thing, not based on evidence or facts in the case. I can't convict someone who's behavior might appear a certain way to someone, especially being aware of issues that may factor into how one acts (eg: medications, neurodivergence etc). Before anyone comes for me, I'm not suggesting RA is dealing with neurodivergence - as we have had no evidence to support that to date that I'm aware of). If society is now about convicting people based on their subjective opinions of behavior... then I fear for the justice system and those affected by it. MOooo.

 

[shonyakay]

Defense attorney Brad Rozzi hands Heath a report he requested that shows what Heath did that day at that stop. The report refers to Heath seeing a vehicle at 8:45 a.m. the morning of the murders. He noticed it was in the same location that afternoon. Heath said the car was half-way down the road near the CPS building, parked about two feet off the road.
…
Heath said he recently spoke to law enforcement about having seen a car that looked like it was “in a movie.” He says the car was a 4-door that looked like it was from the 80’s or 90’s. He said he was 150-250 yards away when he saw it. The defense shows a photo of the car.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 13 live blog

Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen continues with testimony from witnesses. Allen is charged with murder of two girls in 2017. Follow for updates.

www.wishtv.com

Near is not at, and when asked, the witness couldn't state what cars if any were actually parked at the CPS building.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I disagree.

its one possibility among others.

Agreed- it is a possibility- starting with the a priori assumption of guilt allows for certain explanations

A priori innocence goes down a different path

And outside looking in options with all available information vs only what is available in court presented to the jury also are factors in personal opinions of guilty or innocence -

IANAL and for me how this case was investigated and has been tried has been problematic for me- and I hold in tension the desire for the guilty to be held accountable and the need for due process and BARD to be maintained- if rights were violated, due process not followed and the case was not presented BARD I personally cannot say that I would want RA or anyone to be found guilty - it’s a constitutional issue for me personally- it’s not slighting the victims or favoring the accused- I want guilty to be brought to justice- but legally and fairly- and I can’t personally be machiavellian about it- moo and I know many will disagree with me vehemently-

 

[detectivewannab]

Anyone want to predict when it will go to the jury?

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Meticulously combing through discovery to craft a believable confession to his family and therapist certainly doesn’t align with the mental diminished state the defense is declaring the defendant was suffering.
Jmo
They can’t have it both ways. Moo

Nope that’s not the most logical- only way to have it both ways as best I can see it would be to go down the path that both are true and the D went through the discovery not RA and the D gave him the story to tell- and NO I’m not saying that’s what happened- but rather that’s the closest I can come to reconciling those two points- moo

 

[photographer4]

Anyone want to predict when it will go to the jury?

I was wondering this myself - I had thought this upcoming week might be for the D, and then whatever rebuttals from the State then closing and out - so a week and like maybe a day or two? But then I remember hearing about sidebars and how they can eat up a ton of time and how many have been had so far... so who knows. Mooo.

 

[Diddian]

And, IMO, none of that has anything to do with what RA was up to the afternoon of 13 February 2017.

And he can't/won't tell us either, but IMO the evidence can.

And, once more - RA also confessed prior to the psych meds. It didn't all happen afterwards.

Well, he did tell in his confessions.

And he also told in a different way - consciousness of guilt - before he was in pretrial detention, when he changed certain elements in his statements to LE to make those elements less incriminating in relation to known evidence:

2017: on the trails from 1:30 to 3:30, wearing blue jeans and a blue Carhartt jacket, and checking stocks on his phone screen.
2022: on the trails from noon to 1:30, wearing either a blue or black jacket (and geofence has no record of the cellphone he was using in 2017 on MHB trails that day).