Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[photographer4]

If that image of RA=BG isn't identical then I'll eat my pink golf visor that I promised to do early on. Same body frame, height, everything.

Thanks for posting that @Betty P

JMO

In the absence of any defining facial features - eyes, hair, nose... mouth, chin... I can't make anything out of that image to say it is RA or anyone else. It certainly could be imo, but we don't convict on could be because imo - that is a point of reasonable doubt. Its not definitive. Moo.

 

[shonyakay]

And how many others kept quiet? Two sketches that were not allowed in for the jury to see bring up the possibility there may have been someone else...and there is no physical evidence that says it definitely was RA in the video. Yes, he was in the vicinity at the time, but they never produced the identical clothes or anything conclusive. The gun was also a probable, but not definitive match because it was compared to a fired ss...Everything is probable...hence probable cause, which is not the standard for conviction.

IMO

A firearms expert that Vinnie Politan had on explained that at the crime scene when a perp is possibly in a panic he may handled the gun in an aggressive way making the markings more defined on the bullet.
When Oberg tested the bullets it was in a controlled way.
When she tested both the unspent with the spent the markings were the same.

 

[otto]

Great Post.

I do believe the girls' were discovered farther up into the woods then the GPS data listed in RL's search warrant contains.
That location seems too close to the creek.
In the helicopter footage it shows the police helicopter flying in the area just Southeast of the cemetery.
I believe LE may have gave a general reference to location in RL's search warrant.

I'm not 100% certain regarding exact location. Each line in the topo map represents 10 feet elevation. Libby's phone elevation change in the last few moments of movement was 20 feet. The thick line at the creek is 550. The cemetery appears to be a 630. The girls were murdered somewhere near the ravine leading up to the cemetery.

Delphi topographic map 1:24,000 scale, Indiana

Delphi topographic map in Indiana viewable online in JPG format as a free download. Digital topo map DVD and paper map purchase of the Delphi USGS topo quad at 1:24,000 scale. Gazetteer of geographical features showing elevation, relief.

www.yellowmaps.com

 

[photographer4]

Thankfully beating the dead horses over and over on this forum won’t resemble the discussion within the jury room.

I wonder if we might hear from any of the jurors after the verdict is in? I'd really love to know what their thoughts have been and what they feel after the trial when they're able to know more such as: the things the judge has ruled can't be included, their feelings about being shown the videos of RA in the prison etc. I don't envy their position - I don't think they can unsee whatever they've seen and I think this trial will follow them for the rest of their lives in some way or another. MOO.

 

[shonyakay]

RA didn't state he was in the vicinity, he admitted to being on the trails in 2017 and then on the actual MHB when confronted that a witness had seen him there in 2022.

Big difference between vicinity = nearness or physically on the same bridge.

JMO

RA admitted to being on the bridge that day but he obviously lied to his own wife about that because she told him, "You told me you didn't go on the bridge."

Why did he lie to his wife about being on the bridge? Rhetorical question btw.

 

[otto]

I'm not going to grace Grey with a click so pls clarify - is there video evidence that shows the van in question arriving within the appropriate timeline? Eg: traffic cam? Dash cam from the driver? Or is this one of those things Grey puts up as a theory - lacking in actual verified evidence - not moo - asking a question. Ty.

Don't take anyone else's word for the movement of the girls. Explore it yourself. I did.

Here's the topo map: Delphi topographic map 1:24,000 scale, Indiana

Here's the movements of Libby's phone: https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he...lood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

No link to the testimony about the van, but it's been linked several times in the last couple of days that the white van was near the bridge at approximately 2:22-2:30.

That should be enough information to do an analysis of where Richard Allen and the girls were located leading up to and including the murders.

 

[Boxer]

Tthe prosecution: He had means, opportunity and motive here is evidence.

The defense: take a look at all these cringy tantrums the state made him have.

 

[Inthedetails]

Tthe prosecution: He had means, opportunity and motive here is evidence.

The defense: take a look at all these cringy tantrums the state made him have.

Also defense: Odinists wear patches!

jmo

 

[photographer4]

He did, IMO

Were they recorded? If not, why not? I do not buy a single word she says due to her total lack of professionalism on this case! If they were recorded, were they played in court? If not, why not? I'm asking - this isn't moo aside my not taking her word for it... thanks in advance if you happen to know.

 

[Megnut]

RA admitted to being on the bridge that day but he obviously lied to his own wife about that because she told him, "You told me you didn't go on the bridge."

Why did he lie to his wife about being on the bridge? Rhetorical question btw.

Curious, isn't it? It's almost like he knew the crime started there.

Distancing.

JMO

 

[getthefax]

Does the absence of an alibi concern you? Does the absence of his phone in the geofence from that afternoon 12-5 concern you?

It does me. JMO

Certainly there is a preponderance of circumstantial evidence that does concern me and points to RA’s involvement. I was only speaking about the “van-as-detail-only-the-killer-would-know. It’s a point I’d expect the state to make; if someone frequented that bridge area, they may have seen a van there, possibly even on more than one occasion.

If I were a defense attorney, that is a point I would make. I can’t speak to RA’s innocence or guilt, only to some things that cause me to doubt, and for the moment that’s how I would try to defend the van detail.

The “stock ticker/cell phone exclusion from geofence” evidence is, yes, very damning. As is the BG video where we can’t rule out it being RA in the frames, his placing himself at the scene, and his saying “I did it” to KA and JA. I just happen to think the van detail is impeachable.

 

[minor4th]

And he has access to a iPad 24/7 didn’t he?

He could make calls and when he broke it in a fit of temper ( he certainly loves to do that) he got it replaced.

Moo

Can you provide a link for this information? I didn’t see anywhere it was reported he broke his tablet in a fit of rage or that he loves to do that.

It’s also my understanding his tablet was broken for a period of months before it was replaced, but I’m not sure.

TIA JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Imo, yes it can possibly be the result of a wide reaching conspiracy to make him appear guilty. The evidence doesn't fit RA imo so much as it has been twisted and presented to appear to fit RA. We don't even have a time of death short of sometime between when they went DTH and when they were found dead. We have not heard about stomach contents (why not?). We didn't hear about if toxicology was done (why not)? We didn't even have investigators who knew to take the sticks at the scene to the lab. Moo.

This is not a TV drama where all the evidence presented is necessary for the plot and predictable.
Time of death….not easy to determine in real life
Stomach contents….why would that matter in this case? The coroner probably knows but what possible value would it present here?
Toxicology….it was likely done but had no value. But then, what would be the purpose anyway, unless there were thoughts that the girls killed each other in a wild drug induced rage.
Sticks….they were sticks, just sticks

 

[shonyakay]

I think they were shown the treatment he endured at the prison.

Per LL multiple jurors were wiping away tears whilst watching.

The Murder Sheet couple, who didn't mention any names specifically, stated that the observations being relayed by some from the courtroom are not accurate.

 

[Boxer]

Imo, yes it can possibly be the result of a wide reaching conspiracy to make him appear guilty. The evidence doesn't fit RA imo so much as it has been twisted and presented to appear to fit RA. We don't even have a time of death short of sometime between when they went DTH and when they were found dead. We have not heard about stomach contents (why not?). We didn't hear about if toxicology was done (why not)? We didn't even have investigators who knew to take the sticks at the scene to the lab. Moo.

What specific evidence is twisted to fit in your opinion?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Certainly there is a preponderance of circumstantial evidence that does concern me and points to RA’s involvement. I was only speaking about the “van-as-detail-only-the-killer-would-know. It’s a point I’d expect the state to make; if someone frequented that bridge area, they may have seen a van there, possibly even on more than one occasion.

If I were a defense attorney, that is a point I would make. I can’t speak to RA’s innocence or guilt, only to some things that cause me to doubt, and for the moment that’s how I would try to defend the van detail.

The “stock ticker/cell phone exclusion from geofence” evidence is, yes, very damning. As is the BG video where we can’t rule out it being RA in the frames, his placing himself at the scene, and his saying “I did it” to KA and JA. I just happen to think the van detail is impeachable.

Seems like that the attempted and failed SA would be something unique. Especially given the victim’s age/gender.
JMO

 

[Wintwrfreezy]

RA admitted to being on the bridge that day but he obviously lied to his own wife about that because she told him, "You told me you didn't go on the bridge."

Why did he lie to his wife about being on the bridge? Rhetorical question btw.

New poster long time lurker
Can you direct me to where this was said? I have heard it reported differently and would like to compare. Thank you.

 

[ClearAhead]

Respectfully, he made the search in APRIL 2022 - MONTHS before he was even arrested. What do the 'confessions' have to do with the search then? Moo.

Edited to add: this is the post you replied to - adding for clarity: Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

The search in April 2022 “should I die now” was at a time when LE was insisting the perp had local connections due to the location of the crime scene. Not too hard to imagine that local chatter was avidly active.

On the other hand maybe this disgusting man has been suicidal for years. Sounds like he was fighting demons and Libby and Abby would be alive today had they won.

I’d say it’s an appropriate for both RA’s sister and daughter to testify to get it cleared up if RA sexually assaulted them, either by the D or during rebuttal. If so, no statute of limitations on that, he should be charged for that too. JMO

Delphi murders suspect allegedly told psychologist he wanted to apologize to Abby, Libby's families

"I killed Abby and Libby. I am sorry." is what the suspect reportedly told a clinical psychologist while in jail.

abc7chicago.com

Miller went on to say Allen said on April 9, 2023, at 6:56 a.m., " I only killed them to give my family more time to be free." Then at 7:58 a.m. Allen said, " I'm sorry I killed those kids... I may have touched my daughter, I can't remember."

 

[minor4th]

A firearms expert that Vinnie Politan had on explained that at the crime scene when a perp is possibly in a panic he may handled the gun in an aggressive way making the markings more defined on the bullet.
When Oberg tested the bullets it was in a controlled way.
When she tested both the unspent with the spent the markings were the same.

I just don’t understand the science behind comparing a spent cartridge to an unspent cartridge when she couldn’t obtain reproducible results from an unspent cartridge. On its face, that just seems to be flawed.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Seems like that the attempted and failed SA would be something unique. Especially given the victim’s age/gender.
JMO

This is in my opinion a very important point- I think many would have assumed SA and or CSAM as part of the crime and lack of evidence of that might be something unique to the killer - just a thought- moo