Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211

[FrostedGlass]

Libby and Abby were down the hill and beneath the bridge at 2:18 pm. They were at the top of the bridge at 2:13 pm being forced down the hill, under the bridge. We know the girls were immediately told to undress somewhere in the nearby forest.

Richard Allen confessed that he forced the girls to go down the hill after flashing a gun. He was going to sexually assault them, but a white van drove by, so he was interrupted and forced the girls to cross the creek, where he slit their throats with a box cutter. Gotta wonder - was the sexual moment ruined for Richard Allen? He no longer felt the urge to sexually assault the teenagers. Instead, he killed them to eliminate witnesses?

Based on LIbby's phone movements, updated every 10 minutes, it looks like she stopped moving between 2:08 and 2:18 (perhaps after getting undressed). She remained there until 2:25, at the same approximate time that the van drove past. Then she moved, and elevation changes (20 feet) correspond with the ravine between Deer Creek and the Cemetery.

Thank you for coming back to the timeline.
How important to this case do you think Libby's phone movements are?
Do you know if her phone app also shows loss in elevation?

Just for clarification: We know the girls were on the bridge between 2:08 and 2:18 so that was surely not where they were getting undressed.

 

[mrjitty]

It is so interesting to me that at the safekeeping hearing fiasco in summer of '23 the D chose not to produce the actual evidence of psychosis for the Judge, but instead promoted the idea of Odinist prison guards as the reason for confessions in the Franks. The jury will never know this of course.

As a strategy - what was the thinking?

 

[mrjitty]

Thank you for coming back to the timeline.
How important to this case do you think Libby's phone movements are?
Do you know if her phone app also shows loss in elevation?

Just for clarification: We know the girls were on the bridge between 2:08 and 2:18 so that was surely not where they were getting undressed.

I recall from other cases that it is not unusual for attackers to lose control and murder the victim(s) before they complete their sexual assault fantasy.

MOO

 

[Salah11]

It is so interesting to me that at the safekeeping hearing fiasco in summer of '23 the D chose not to produce the actual evidence of psychosis for the Judge, but instead promoted the idea of Odinist prison guards as the reason for confessions in the Franks. The jury will never know this of course.

As a strategy - what was the thinking?

Yes, because it’s all made up like everything they do, unfortunately. It’s just a shame the jury won’t get to hear stuff like this to see what a bunch of charlatans the defence are.

Moo

 

[mrjitty]

Yes, because it’s all made up like everything they do, unfortunately. It’s just a shame the jury won’t get to hear stuff like this to see what a bunch of charlatans the defence is.

Moo

Agreed - but I just wonder what was the strategy?

Was the Odinist prison guard thing just for public consumption to head off the confessions? Clearly it wasn't for the Judge.

And did they feel it was too risky to run with psychosis as showing too much of their hand pre-trial? The net result was not without downsides given RA confessed as recently as Feb '24

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I recall from other cases that it is not unusual for attackers to lose control and murder the victim(s) before they complete their sexual assault fantasy.

MOO

I'm sure that happens. I just don't think it happened while they were crossing the bridge.
Do you have any thoughts on the rest of my post?

How important to this case do you think Libby's phone movements are?
Do you know if her phone app also shows loss in elevation?

 

[shonyakay]

Thank you for coming back to the timeline.
How important to this case do you think Libby's phone movements are?
Do you know if her phone app also shows loss in elevation?

Just for clarification: We know the girls were on the bridge between 2:08 and 2:18 so that was surely not where they were getting undressed.

Not OP, but the OP posted this below with further information.

"Location captures are every 10 minutes. From 2:08-2:18, Libby's phone moves from 707 meters elevation to 414 elevation. The time includes the 10 minute time interval that Libby was on the bridge with Abby before they were abducted to after the abduction.

1:31 pm – 2:08 pm – 1,682 steps (707.34 meters)
2:08 pm – 2:18 pm – 414.38 meters

There is no movement, or steps, from 2:18 to 2:25 pm. That must be where and when they were initially sexually assaulted. At 2:25 they're on the move again, with a 2 floor elevation in the last minute between 2:31 and 2:32 (the ravine, 66 steps (50.64 meters).

Libby stopped moving at approximately 2:15, and started moving again a 2:25. We estimate 2:15 because updates are 10 minute intervals, and 2:25 tracks back to 2:15, when there was no movement."

The above post was from poster @otto

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211' Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211

 

[mrjitty]

I'm sure that happens. I just don't think it happened while they were crossing the bridge.
Do you have any thoughts on the rest of my post?

How important to this case do you think Libby's phone movements are?
Do you know if her phone app also shows loss in elevation?

I think Libby's phone movements are critical as to establishing the crime scene and approx time of death.

1. We know they didn't go anywhere else. The phone was found at the murder scene, within range of it's step and location data, so there is a strong inference the girls walked from A to B with a pause.

2. Given the phone was always on, any second location is ruled out, as there would be no way for the phone to get to the crime scene later without movement being recorded.

The elevation can't be regarded as being super perfect to the meter/floor IMO. Anyone regular user of garmin or apple health knows this. I can walk up the hill to my front door and get a floor. But other times it doesn't register in real time at all.

MOO

 

[Mirabel091]

Horrible mistake made by reporting that!

Agree, that of all the things to misreport, that was a big one. And it highlights the frustration we've all had with reports coming through piecemeal and getting updated later on.

I hope the reporters will try to be more careful going forward, but it can't be easy for them.

 

[statt#1]

If this were MY trial, and I was being accused of a double murder of two innocent young ladies in MY hometown, and I was truly innocent, I would surely be requesting my defense team put up an exact timeline of MY whereabouts on the day in question, before, during, and after. I'd be amassing and presenting a HUGE amount of evidence on my behalf....in my defense.

I'd be sayin'.....where's my phone? Won't my phone itself testify to my movements on that day?

Or....call that manager at Home Depot....he'll tell you I was there at such and such a time, and check their cameras too!

What we seem to have here though, is a laser focus on the idea Rick's confessions just couldn't be true...none of them, because he was in the throes of a psychotic episode when he made them.

Besides that, a redundant calling in to question of prosecution witnesses, and constant attempts at laying the case for some other person(s) had to be involved. In my opinion, that 'defense' ain't cuttin' it.

Lastly, I still find it quite amazin' RA has been, to all accounts, or lack thereof, rather cool as a cucumber during trial...no actin' out whatsoever that I can see, quite in control of his behavior. I find that interesting.

This is all my opinion on what I'm gleaning from the saga.

 

[NoeticSoul]

It appears to have become fair sport to ridicule someone who suffers from mental illness. I guess that’s easy if one has never experienced it either personally or in a loved one. You don’t love them less, you tend to love them more. I hope no one here ever experiences what happened to RA in Westville or to have a loved one suffer through 13 months of solitary, sleep deprivation, tasing and finally full on psychosis. What has happened to RA, could happen to anyone of us, and THAT should scare the begeebies out of us. There’s a great video on Youtube by an attorney on why one should never talk to LE without an attorney present. This case has certainly impressed that upon me! All MOO.

He had 7 years to tell the truth and brought it all on himself imo. Many folks suffer from mental illnesses, family members included, however most do not attempt to SA and murder innocent children then hide in plain sight for all of those years behaving (apparently) normally. moo

 

[mrjitty]

If this were MY trial, and I was being accused of a double murder of two innocent young ladies in MY hometown, and I was truly innocent, I would surely be requesting my defense team put up an exact timeline of MY whereabouts on the day in question, before, during, and after. I'd be amassing and presenting a HUGE amount of evidence on my behalf....in my defense.

I'd be sayin'.....where's my phone? Won't my phone itself testify to my movements on that day?

Or....call that manager at Home Depot....he'll tell you I was there at such and such a time, and check their cameras too!

What we seem to have here though, is a laser focus on the idea Rick's confessions just couldn't be true...none of them, because he was in the throes of a psychotic episode when he made them.

Besides that, a redundant calling in to question of prosecution witnesses, and constant attempts at laying the case for some other person(s) had to be involved. In my opinion, that 'defense' ain't cuttin' it.

Lastly, I still find it quite amazin' RA has been, to all accounts, or lack thereof, rather cool as a cucumber during trial...no actin' out whatsoever that I can see, quite in control of his behavior. I find that interesting.

This is all my opinion on what I'm gleaning from the saga.

I certainly wouldn't want a defence that required the "real killers" to bring the victims back at 4.30am

 

[sunshineray]

I see Baldwin was back to his favourite topic

Delphi Murders trial: Day 15 live blog

Follow Day 15 in the trial of Richard Allen, accused of murdering two girls in Delphi. Stay updated with our live blog for the latest developments.

wishtv.com

And didn't witness Murphy, whom I'm guessing was suppose to get put on the stand by the D for that, after being seen there earlier in the day, had already left anyway. Guess AB is just interested in getting it on the court record as many times as possible. MO

Edit, forgot link

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covering true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

 

[Poedelini]

If this were MY trial, and I was being accused of a double murder of two innocent young ladies in MY hometown, and I was truly innocent, I would surely be requesting my defense team put up an exact timeline of MY whereabouts on the day in question, before, during, and after. I'd be amassing and presenting a HUGE amount of evidence on my behalf....in my defense.

I'd be sayin'.....where's my phone? Won't my phone itself testify to my movements on that day?

Or....call that manager at Home Depot....he'll tell you I was there at such and such a time, and check their cameras too!

What we seem to have here though, is a laser focus on the idea Rick's confessions just couldn't be true...none of them, because he was in the throes of a psychotic episode when he made them.

Besides that, a redundant calling in to question of prosecution witnesses, and constant attempts at laying the case for some other person(s) had to be involved. In my opinion, that 'defense' ain't cuttin' it.

Lastly, I still find it quite amazin' RA has been, to all accounts, or lack thereof, rather cool as a cucumber during trial...no actin' out whatsoever that I can see, quite in control of his behavior. I find that interesting.

This is all my opinion on what I'm gleaning from the saga.

Yes. Im missing common sense in the defence, like timeline, phone records. Proof that RA is not BG. Unless there is no defence, because RA was there and he was BG and killed the girls in a gruesome way.

Jmo

 

[sunshineray]

"Prosecution cross-examined Mullin. Not only did the police chief deny feeding Weber information about the van, but Mullin stated phone records backed up Weber’s account of driving straight home after work."

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-former-fire-chief-recalls-nighttime-search-for-girls-and-lack-of-sightings/

Can't get him off the bridge by his own words and by witness corroborating him and by his own words in being interrupted by a van, also corroborated by a witness. The "fragile egg" of a man has sunk his own boat. MO

 

[Skigh]

Can't get him off the bridge by his own words and by witness corroborating him and by his own words in being interrupted by a van, also corroborated by a witness. The "fragile egg" of a man has sunk his own boat. MO

Just a shell of his former self after his wife and mother would not accept his confessions.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Can't get him off the bridge by his own words and by witness corroborating him and by his own words in being interrupted by a van, also corroborated by a witness. The "fragile egg" of a man has sunk his own boat. MO

If he'd have only told the truth FIRST all those years ago he would have probably been able to avoid much of what caused him (allegedly) to become a "fragile egg" due to his prison experience. It's not a party in there, after all. He was no fragile egg on that bridge, Abby & Libby were. imo

 

[INfisherman]

If this were MY trial, and I was being accused of a double murder of two innocent young ladies in MY hometown, and I was truly innocent, I would surely be requesting my defense team put up an exact timeline of MY whereabouts on the day in question, before, during, and after. I'd be amassing and presenting a HUGE amount of evidence on my behalf....in my defense.

I'd be sayin'.....where's my phone? Won't my phone itself testify to my movements on that day?

Or....call that manager at Home Depot....he'll tell you I was there at such and such a time, and check their cameras too!

What we seem to have here though, is a laser focus on the idea Rick's confessions just couldn't be true...none of them, because he was in the throes of a psychotic episode when he made them.

Besides that, a redundant calling in to question of prosecution witnesses, and constant attempts at laying the case for some other person(s) had to be involved. In my opinion, that 'defense' ain't cuttin' it.

Lastly, I still find it quite amazin' RA has been, to all accounts, or lack thereof, rather cool as a cucumber during trial...no actin' out whatsoever that I can see, quite in control of his behavior. I find that interesting.

This is all my opinion on what I'm gleaning from the saga.

Definitely some strange decisions being made. Many coincidences & conveniences it seems. Hard to ignore for sure.

JMO

ETA It’s almost as if the defense is trying to hide all of that in plain sight.

 

[NoeticSoul]

If this were MY trial, and I was being accused of a double murder of two innocent young ladies in MY hometown, and I was truly innocent, I would surely be requesting my defense team put up an exact timeline of MY whereabouts on the day in question, before, during, and after. I'd be amassing and presenting a HUGE amount of evidence on my behalf....in my defense.

I'd be sayin'.....where's my phone? Won't my phone itself testify to my movements on that day?

Or....call that manager at Home Depot....he'll tell you I was there at such and such a time, and check their cameras too!

What we seem to have here though, is a laser focus on the idea Rick's confessions just couldn't be true...none of them, because he was in the throes of a psychotic episode when he made them.

Besides that, a redundant calling in to question of prosecution witnesses, and constant attempts at laying the case for some other person(s) had to be involved. In my opinion, that 'defense' ain't cuttin' it.

Lastly, I still find it quite amazin' RA has been, to all accounts, or lack thereof, rather cool as a cucumber during trial...no actin' out whatsoever that I can see, quite in control of his behavior. I find that interesting.

This is all my opinion on what I'm gleaning from the saga.

BBM, You mean the very phone that went /missing recycled... but for the other 20+ phones they found that he had saved? Strange isn't it?! smh

 

[sunshineray]

If this were MY trial, and I was being accused of a double murder of two innocent young ladies in MY hometown, and I was truly innocent, I would surely be requesting my defense team put up an exact timeline of MY whereabouts on the day in question, before, during, and after. I'd be amassing and presenting a HUGE amount of evidence on my behalf....in my defense.

I'd be sayin'.....where's my phone? Won't my phone itself testify to my movements on that day?

Or....call that manager at Home Depot....he'll tell you I was there at such and such a time, and check their cameras too!

What we seem to have here though, is a laser focus on the idea Rick's confessions just couldn't be true...none of them, because he was in the throes of a psychotic episode when he made them.

Besides that, a redundant calling in to question of prosecution witnesses, and constant attempts at laying the case for some other person(s) had to be involved. In my opinion, that 'defense' ain't cuttin' it.

Lastly, I still find it quite amazin' RA has been, to all accounts, or lack thereof, rather cool as a cucumber during trial...no actin' out whatsoever that I can see, quite in control of his behavior. I find that interesting.

This is all my opinion on what I'm gleaning from the saga.

Did the jurors ask any questions about the phone data, cell tower stuff? You'd think they'd be wondering about that, was RA's phone on the cell tower data? If so, like you said, it could then say where he went after he supposedly left the trails at 1:30pm that day, where he was at the time of the murders, his alibi. It's just been crickets about his whereabouts after he said he left or for that matter when he said he got to the trails, watching his stock ticker as he walked by the group of teen girls. Crickets. AJMO