Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211

[FrostedGlass]

Is that based on a percentage or just a flat out number because I would be curious about the percentage?

I haven't seen any percentage or numbers.
The case is searchable; if anyone has the time or inclination, they can go through all the entries to see what what the actual numbers are. It's word searchable.
08C01-2210-MR-000001

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[mrjitty]

There isn't any because he wasn't in the location of the murders during the State's timeline so they motioned to have it suppressed (Motion in Limine, end of April 2024) and the judge granted it.

not my understanding. that ruling only covered Geofence.

i don’t think anything prevents either party from bringing the defendants phone records.

moo

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Before the idea above grows legs again, RA wasn't placed in a state prison due to evidence against him. It was intended for his safekeeping as he was a danger to himself, and the local jails were not equipped to handle the level of mental health needs. He was potentially in danger from other inmates at the local jails, as well.

jmo

Oh I understand that- IN has very narrow rules for pretrial detention- and aggravating circumstances are required to be denied bail- and the judge decided it was enough and he got sent where he was sent based upon that-

My point was that without the confessions which came post detention- what was presented at trial was not as compelling as I would have hoped and wanted- and with just what was presented at trial I can see how a juror might have a hard time getting to guilty BARD especially if they doubt the confessions- moo

 

[minor4th]

I just read that the jury heard from the defense tool mark expert this morning. Has anyone read any reports about what he said?

 

[Deleted member 296739]

No problem - see my post above your last (quoted here). Feel free to ask for links - most folks will probably be happy to help.

Thank you

 

[MassGuy]

Strange lack of updates today. WishTV started and then just stopped updating the morning session. I wonder if there’s an issue with pool notes or something.

 

[m00c0w]

Let's not allow the jury to hear the psychiatric effects of solitary confinement.

Motion In Limine Filed Motion in Limine - Expert Grassian.pdf Filed By: State of Indiana File Stamp: 11/05/2024​

[td]
11/05/2024

[/td]​

JG allowed the testimony. Not sure if there were any restrictions yet.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Day 16 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins Tuesday at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[minor4th]

Someone on here posted that Lawyer Lee was not into the odinism angle. I beg to differ.

She’s just reporting what is happening. She is not into the Odinist thing. But what’s the harm in Rozzi asking that question?

 

[mrjitty]

Good questions.
The defense wanted to show by geofence there were other people in the area at the time the state claims the murders happened, state didn't agree and judge ruled in favor of state and halted defense expert former FBI agent CAST expert Kevin Horan from testifying. More grounds for appeal imo.

can you link to where in the Judges order it says the defendants phone records can’t be exhibited?

i think you will find it is now pretty clear the defendants phone was not in the geofence as has been stated at trial.

i don’t know why they are not being exhibited but it could simply be that the phone company no longer had that data.

moo

 

[ClearAhead]

Analyst says someone plugged headphones into Libby's phone before girls' bodies were found | Day 16 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

11:20 a.m. - The state filed a motion trying to prevent the defense from calling a certain witness; however, Special Judge Frances Gull allowed the witness to testify.
The defense called a psychiatrist who specializes in solitary confinement, false memories and false confessions.
The third witness of the morning was Dr. Erin Warren, who works with firearm and crime scene reconstruction. He detailed how cycled and unfired cartridges may receive markings.

more …….

 

[minor4th]

Murder Sheet laid out the testimony of BW yesterday pretty well. One of the things they pointed out is that he seems to get hung up on precise language, so when Baldwin asks if an investigator called him to come to the police station, BW says that never happened. It gets clarified that he was called, but was not asked to go to the police station.

Ultimately, BW stuck to his testimony last week that he went straight home after work. He appears to have been very cooperative with the investigation in 2017, was interviewed multiple times, consented to a bunch of searches, voluntarily gave up his firearm, volunteered to take a polygraph, etc.

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Fifteen: Allen's Family Speaks

We discuss the fifteenth day of Richard Allen's trial. We heard from Allen's sister Jamie Jones and daughter Brittany Zapanta, as well as testimony from Brad...

murdersheetpodcast.com

Are the murder sheet people there in court?

 

[minor4th]

can you link to where in the Judges order it says the defendants phone records can’t be exhibited?

i think you will find it is now pretty clear the defendants phone was not in the geofence as has been stated at trial.

i don’t know why they are not being exhibited but it could simply be that the phone company no longer had that data.

moo

I don’t think there’s been any evidence about the geofence because the judge excluded it.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The state's case that Allen was malingering just doesn't fly when they forcefully gave him shots of Haldol against his will. If he was malingering there would be no reason to give him Haldol in the first place.

RA placed himself on the bridge.
RA confessed to the murders with information only the killer would know.
Lots of other circumstantial evidence.
RA is guilty of murdering Libby and Abby.
If RA feels he was mistreated by IDOC, which I personally don’t believe, then he should sue them, but that is a totally different issue than the murder case.
The defense should never have meshed these two issues together.

 

[Crazyjster]

can you link to where in the Judges order it says the defendants phone records can’t be exhibited?

i think you will find it is now pretty clear the defendants phone was not in the geofence as has been stated at trial.

i don’t know why they are not being exhibited but it could simply be that the phone company no longer had that data.

moo

The phone company may not have data now, but that data should have been obtained by the state at the time of investigation

 

[tlcya]

But you still can't get around the fact that none of the witnesses identified Richard Allen. And the sketches don't look like Richard Allen. The sketches look loke [redacted by @tlcya because rules] Two of the Vinlander gang members.

you mean the odin angle that the judge disallowed about the alternate suspects the rules of this discussion don't allow us to dicuss?

 

[ClearAhead]

Analyst says someone plugged headphones into Libby's phone before girls' bodies were found | Day 16 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

Defense's 19th witness, Dr. Stuart Grassian​

9:35 a.m. - The defense's next witness is Dr. Stuart Grassian, who is a psychiatrist and went to Harvard Medical School. Grassian specializes in solitary confinement, false memories and false confessions.

Grassian said, "It's important to understand the mental state" in cases like this.

Grassian said he understands Allen made incriminating statements and wanted to know if Allen's mental health contributed to that.

Grassian listened to calls from prison and read transcripts from other inmates.
When discussing solitary confinement, Grassian said people held like this can become "confused, disoriented" and "extremely lonely" since there is minimal opportunities for stimulation.

<snipped>

During cross-examination, a prosecuting attorney asked Grassian if he was aware of prison rules on safekeeping, punishment and safety protocols, which Grassian said yes, but he wasn't an expert on those.

A juror asked Grassian if psychotic behavior can go back to normal after the person is removed from the situation, which Grassian responded, "Generally, yes."

A juror also asked Grassian if he believes someone described as normal can become psychotic after six months, which Grassian responded, "Absolutely. I've seen it happen."

 

[Mitch1]

Grassian said delirium can also lead to developing false memories, such as starting to believe and picture things that didn't happen.
"Your memory can shift over time," Grassian said, noting this was "perfectly consistent" with Allen's symptoms.

 

[shonyakay]

Do you have a link to that please? TIA

I'd like the link as well because Mullin just testified yesterday that BW's gun was ruled out for the unspent round found at the scene.

 

[Crazyjster]

RA placed himself on the bridge.
RA confessed to the murders with information only the killer would know.
Lots of other circumstantial evidence.
RA is guilty of murdering Libby and Abby.
If RA feels he was mistreated by IDOC, which I personally don’t believe, then he should sue them, but that is a totally different issue than the murder case.
The defense should never have meshed these two issues together.

you are entitled to your opinion

 

[m00c0w]

She’s just reporting what is happening. She is not into the Odinist thing. But what’s the harm in Rozzi asking that question?

Because it’s apples to oranges and requires speculation. There is a stack of evidence against RA that puts him very near the crime scene at the time of the crime, but not BH. RA is currently on trial, BH is not. If that was one more piece of evidence for the guy they already had probable cause to arrest, maybe? But that’s a completely different scenario from the guy that has an alibi for the time of the crime and there is zero evidence he was anywhere near Delphi at the time.

JMO