Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211

[Vern]

The defense is doing it again for a reason. The reason is they feel that the door has been opened due to witness testimony. A party has to make timely objections as not to waive any later opportunity for appeal.

Yeah 'they thought'. But, IMO, sorry branches being tossed on murder victims is not and never has been evidence of Odinism & Ritualistic Sacrificial murders.

 

[DoctorRose]

A little thing with Dr. Wescott… according to Murder Sheet, she claims brief psychosis was in DSM-IV, but isn’t in DSM-5… Pretty sure it’s still in the DSM. Kind of a big thing for the expert to get wrong…

Table 3.20, DSM-IV to DSM-5 Psychotic Disorders - Impact of the DSM-IV to DSM-5 Changes on the National Survey on Drug Use and Health - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Fifteen: Allen's Family Speaks

We discuss the fifteenth day of Richard Allen's trial. We heard from Allen's sister Jamie Jones and daughter Brittany Zapanta, as well as testimony from Brad...

murdersheetpodcast.com

It’s there but it’s been moved and is now part of the schizophrenia spectrum according to Dr. John on hidden true crime’s live from last night. So Is it there? Yes and no. In a different spot and part of a different umbrella diagnosis. Iiuc. JMO bc I don’t have the link.

 

[twall]

It isn't because he didn't have a phone with him that day. Too bad his car couldn't talk, no data from there either. Why have the defense never mentioned where RA was during the time of the murders. Not even a he was home, just nada.

Where did I say he didn't have a phone with him? What does the car have to do with a cell tower dump? Defense isn't done with their CiC.

 

[flashy09]

Testimony allowed

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Day 16 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins Tuesday at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

Judge Gull has ruled to allow testimony from defense expert Stuart Grassian during court on Tuesday.
Earlier in the day, the state motioned to prevent Grassian’s testimony from being told to the jury.
The jury also heard from a tool mark expert in court Tuesday morning.

 

[shonyakay]

I don't know about that - didn't the expert testify that she had to actually shoot the bullet or did I misinterpret that. The question in my mind was did she actually shoot the other guns she was testing or only RA's?

Ejector marks are unique to each gun.

The spent markings are obviously more defined then the unspent but the markings still match.

 

[Crutmauler]

No not that I see. He admitted to seeing the 3 girls, 4 were there in total, but one a much younger sibling who may have been lagging behind or off to the side. Also BB saw all 4 girls passing over the bridge as she went to park for her walk.

What is problematic to the Defense is that they saw him and he admitted to seeing them at the same time in the same location and they have phone and picture evidence of that timeframe. What is creepily weird is that he recognized and described one as taller with dark hair in such a short few seconds in passing even with his head down and a face covering.

JMO

BB saw somebody on the bridge, but I think it's very obvious that she did not see Richard Allen. She saw a young taller guy who reminder her of Justin Timberlake. Her witness sketch looks nothing like Richard Allen,<modsnip - opinion stated as fact, and insinuations against a person not named POI by LE>
And she did not identify Richard Allen even though he was sitting right in front of her in the courtroom. Actually, NONE of the state's witnesses identified Richard Allen.

I also think it's obvious that Richard Allen was describing a different group of girls. He saw an older girl with 2 little girls and said it appeared that the older one was babysitting the little ones.

Remember it was a unseasonably warm day and dozens of people went out to the trails.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I have to wonder if the absence of a live feed is what makes this case unique for me as there are wildly different opinions on how well of a job prosecution has done and how well defense has done and which team did the better job. Quite interesting for me to read the thread.

The judge's decision on cameras/streaming doesn't set well with many people.

I've never had a need for a criminal defense attorney; but if I did, I'd want one who would take it to the limit to defend me. I also want defense attys to push hard to make the prosecution prove their cases. I'm pleased with the job they're doing.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I have to wonder if the absence of a live feed is what makes this case unique for me as there are wildly different opinions on how well of a job prosecution has done and how well defense has done and which team did the better job. Quite interesting for me to read the thread.

I don’t wonder anymore- after yesterday’s no/yes debacle with the “do you love him?” question-

we are getting filtered versions of filtered information from a pool of reporters who have got to be exhausted and under stress,

that then gets spun and rehashed and discussed by people with varying degrees of time invested in this case and who have varying assumptions and presuppositions about guilt and innocence

And it’s not always clear if people are talking about personal feelings of guilt vs how the P has done at presenting the case BARD and if the D is crazy or brilliant since they need to create reasonable doubt not prove innocence and lay a foundation for appeal…

I think streaming and or daily transcripts would at least eliminate the filtered and spun info so that there was a common starting place without the YTers and podcasts and various news sources

moo

 

[tlcya]

BB saw somebody on the bridge, but I think it's very obvious that she did not see Richard Allen. She saw a young taller guy who reminder her of Justin Timberlake. Her witness sketch looks nothing like Richard Allen, modsnip - opinion stated as fact, and insinuations against a person not named POI by LE>. And she did not identify Richard Allen even though he was sitting right in front of her in the courtroom. Actually, NONE of the state's witnesses identified Richard Allen.

I also think it's obvious that Richard Allen was describing a different group of girls. He saw an older girl with 2 little girls and said it appeared that the older one was babysitting the little ones.

Remember it was a unseasonably warm day and dozens of people went out to the trails.

I completely disagree with you but wanted to say welcome to Websleuths.

 

[Marah]

I have no idea as I don't know who they are. The question from op was where is phone tower dump data. I answered jury won't be hearing any of it due to suppression.

Why is it suppressed?

 

[Bbgiraffe]

I don’t wonder anymore- after yesterday’s no/yes debacle with the “do you love him?” question-

we are getting filtered versions of filtered information from a pool of reporters who have got to be exhausted and under stress,

that then gets spun and rehashed and discussed by people with varying degrees of time invested in this case and who have varying assumptions and presuppositions about guilt and innocence

And it’s not always clear if people are talking about personal feelings of guilt vs how the P has done at presenting the case BARD and if the D is crazy or brilliant since they need to create reasonable doubt not prove innocence and lay a foundation for appeal…

I think streaming and or daily transcripts would at least eliminate the filtered and spun info so that there was a common starting place without the YTers and podcasts and various news sources

moo

Best post ever! I will say that I personally think he's guilty but have NO IDEA whether the prosecution or defense is presenting a more convincing case. Just from what I've read from the news it seems the prosecution is doing better.

But like you said we don't really know because we aren't seeing it for ourselves.

 

[twall]

Why is it suppressed?

IDK I'm not the judge.

 

[sunshineray]

I feel like Westcott’s training, experience and overall professionalism make her a far more reliable doctor and witness imo. Andrea Burkhart pointed out on her live last night that Dr. Wescott even examined handwriting of RA from before the crime and since being in prison. It was really interesting! Here’s a link to an article about it:

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 15 | Expert witness on interviewing Allen; Video of Allen played for jury

The trial of Richard Allen moves into its third week in Carroll County, IN. The defense continues to present its case to the jury.

www.wrtv.com

I noticed a few media articles pointed out that Wala’s report read like a story. Also, the State asked Westcott if she read the ammended report. She stated she didn’t receive one. My question is why was Wala’s report ammended, when, and by whom? Many posts yesterday included this testimony about the ammended report. Pls search thread for them.

Why wouldn't the defense have given her Dr Wala's reports? That seems very remiss of them. That was information from someone on site treating RA. You'd think an expert witness would have wanted ALL that information on RA's day to day, to make a diagnosis. The picture she got is very incomplete. She was never given his LE interviews either to see how lucid he was in those interactions, before his arrest. Another redaction of information by the defense to their expert witness. It seems RA's defense only wanted certain videos played and information given to their expert. That's what you'd call stacking the deck. I'd take the word of people who have dealt with RA on a daily basis for 2 years than a doctor not getting complete information about a subject and after 9 hours of face to face deciding what had actually occured in 2023. I believe this expert's opinion is extremely flawed because of that. AJMO

 

[Crutmauler]

Ejector marks are unique to each gun.

The spent markings are obviously more defined then the unspent but the markings still match.

The state's firearms expert, Melissa Oberg, did not say it was a match. In fact she testified that she could not rule out another .40 caliber Sig Sauer that she tested, which belonged to Brad Weber

<modsnip - inappropriate>

, as being the gun that the "magic bullet" was cycled through.

So actually the state's own expert contradicted the claim that the live round found at the crime scene was a match to Richard Allen's gun.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Best post ever! I will say that I personally think he's guilty but have NO IDEA whether the prosecution or defense is presenting a more convincing case. Just from what I've read from the news it seems the prosecution is doing better.

But like you said we don't really know because we aren't seeing it for ourselves.

I personally think that the P hasn’t gotten to BARD in many ways,

the evidence that they had to arrest him isn’t in my opinion, sufficient to warrant the level of pretrial detention in state prison, nor enough to demonstrate RA is BG and/or that BG is the killer

While the confessions are problematic for the D, the confessions came after extreme pretrial detention conditions and possible deteriorating mental health

And while the bullet could be a match for RA’s gun, it wasn’t like fingerprints and shown to be exclusively from his gun-

This taken with some of the rulings against the D prohibiting them from presenting alternative scenarios (whether or not I think they are ridiculous or not is irrelevant) and the judge trying to remove council etc…

All together I can see how the jury might not get to guilty BARD and LE, P and judge have laid grounds for appeal themselves…

All moo

 

[Deleted member 296739]

The state's firearms expert, Melissa Oberg, did not say it was a match. In fact she testified that she could not rule out another .40 caliber Sig Sauer that she tested, which belonged to Brad Weber <modsnip - inappropriate>, as being the gun that the "magic bullet" was cycled through.

So actually the state's own expert contradicted the claim that the live round found at the crime scene was a match to Richard Allen's gun.

I don’t recall the exact testimony- but This is rather problematic if true- moo

 

[tlcya]

Well it sounds like he did at least drop off a trailer after work. Otherwise he wouldn’t have been driving his van?

There’s some missing info IMO

not even the defense appears to be arguing that Weber dropped the trailer off after leaving his job. They claim he did that earlier in the day and that Weber went to service his ATMs after leaving work.
-----------------------------------------------------
On Feb. 19, 2017, according to Baldwin, Weber told police he got off work and performed routine service on some of the roughly 35 ATMs he owned around central Indiana.

Two days before, on Feb. 17, Weber told police officers what he's said in court and what the prosecution believes he did. Weber said he worked from 5:41 a.m. to 2:02 p.m. at the Subaru plant. He drove his white van to work, which was unusual and happened only because he was hauling a trailer. He drove straight home afterward and arrived around 2:30 p.m., using a private drive that passes underneath the far east side of the Monon High Bridge spanning Deer Creek.
[snip]
Baldwin tried to establish that Weber's ATMs would have needed service because Weber was on a trip to Arizona the week prior and returned on Feb. 12, the day before the girls went missing. But Weber maintained that he was mistaken in the Feb. 19 police interview.

"On the day in question," Weber said of Feb. 13, "when I got off work, I went straight home."
Defense in Delphi trial seeks to cast doubt on Richard Allen's confessions, discredit key witness

Weber told the jury he drove a van, a Ford Econoline, to work on Feb. 13.
Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin asked Weber if he drove straight home on Feb. 13, to which Weber said he dropped off a trailer. Baldwin said that was earlier in the day, adding that Weber originally told police he went to work on ATM machines after work.
Delphi Murders trial: Day 11 live blog

 

[sunshineray]

Where did I say he didn't have a phone with him? What does the car have to do with a cell tower dump? Defense isn't done with their CiC.

If, like you said, the Geo didn't show RA's phone then it's obvious, IMO, he didn't have that phone he said he had with him that day. We know it wasn't turned off because RA himself said he was using it. Do you think he lied about that?

I never said the car had anything to do with the cell tower. I said LE must not have gotten any data, his car didn't "talk" and give them any location data, like some cars can do. I'm guessing not RA's.

We'll see what the defense comes up with next, they seem to be stuck on Odin. Maybe they'll put a couple of inmates on the stand, KAK and Chadwell? They were looking into transport for them not long ago and IIRC they're on the witness list.

 

[girlhasnoname]

An inconsistent iPhone app on that day would just be one more coincidence to add to sea of coincidences that have conspired to frame RA.

My logical, thinking brain wonders "when is too many coincidences not a coincidence?" A plethora of coincidences all working in concert to put poor, egg fragile, innocent little RA behind bars. Nope, not buying it and it sounds like the jury may not be either by their questions.

RA got on that Bridge (MHB) by his own admission and ordered Abby & Libby off and across the creek to suffer an inhumane and agonizing death. SC testified as to when he got off and what shape he was in 'muddy and bloody' heading back on the road less traveled to his car.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

The state's firearms expert, Melissa Oberg, did not say it was a match. In fact she testified that she could not rule out another .40 caliber Sig Sauer that she tested, which belonged to Brad Weber (Creepy Van Guy), as being the gun that the "magic bullet" was cycled through.

So actually the state's own expert contradicted the claim that the live round found at the crime scene was a match to Richard Allen's gun.

That’s not true. As far was BW is concerned, she said that she could now rule it out. It was inconclusive at the time, but based on the match with Allen’s gun (the language they use isn’t actually match) she could now do that.

There was no contradiction whatsoever.