Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211

[twall]

Where is his phone data from the tower dump.

There isn't any because he wasn't in the location of the murders during the State's timeline so they motioned to have it suppressed (Motion in Limine, end of April 2024) and the judge granted it.

 

[scapa]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Day 16 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins Tuesday at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

Around 9:06 a.m., state prosecutors filed a motion to limine against defense expert Stuart Grassian.

Grassian was expected to testify about the effects of solitary confinement on an inmate, but the prosecution’s motion is an attempt to limit or prevent evidence, or in this case, a testimony, from the jury.

It wasn’t clear how Judge Gull would rule on the motion.

Hmmmm....

Over/under on a ruling for the prosecution here?

Is the defence now going with the stealth SODDI b/c RA Can't Possibly Have Confessed Credibly to Anything Strategy?

Can't quite follow from the order of witnesses and testimony thus far.

 

[steeltowngirl]

That is what I am of the opinion of that could hang the jury. The juxtaposition of the RA who was lucid and denied many, many times during the early interrogations or the shrunken image of his depravity of so we "hear" of the prison video confessions that are contradictory e.g. I molested my family, I racked a bullet on the bridge, I shot the girls etc. etc. Other than that, the prosecution's case in my opinion was somewhat weak on both circumstantial and forensic evidence.

Yes, jury may struggle.
Is he a cunning liar when prepared and truthful when under stress?
Or vice versa?

jmo

 

[twall]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853639861917405202

 

[ClearAhead]

These defense attorneys are doing an excellent job of making a record for appeal.
It's just so important to do that.
MOO

Ha, the D planning to appeal a Guilty verdict even before the trial is over in an example of their excellent work? Maybe they ought to find out the definition of “nexus” first.

 

[arielilane]

I did also. Not saying that she's correct in all conclusions but her approach and detailed methodology, and responses in direct and cross are much more in line with my professional experience and what I'd tend to expect from an expert witness, perhaps especially in a high-profile case.

And aren't most/all expert witnesses provided with some form of payment for their expert reports there? That's standard in my experience. Is the issue that she was paid too much?

I don't think this verdict is likely to come down to duelling experts. But I do think she did her job. The state might also have brought in a more capable witness to support Dr W's analysis. Can they still do this?

Re: arielilane said:
I found BW to be a credible witness. moo

My post was referring to Brad Weber.

 

[ClearAhead]

That's because she knew their conversations were being recorded. MOO

Yes certainly the jury noted that too. But his wife couldn’t know the difference between if he was making stuff up or sincerely wanting to confess. She just didn’t want to be the spouse of a double murderer. IMO.

 

[tlcya]

RSBM

If only Rozzi had actually presented hard evidence at the Motion in Limine hearing instead of making wild claims about Facebook posts. Was the picture even adduced into evidence? All i heard was some strange story about going out of state and it costs $10K+

I've never actually seen admissible proof - e.g. from Facebook subpoena, that the person in question ever made such a post, let alone that it has anything to do with the crime.

This is the problem with conspiracy law

this is why I do not follow LL. Because they misrepresented even in their rhetorical question posted upthread. LITERALLY nobody had a crime scene photo on their Facebook. Someone had a piece of "art" that depicted something that some moron thought resembled the crime scene. But the rumor machine infected the public and that rumor is what caused Facebook "detectives" to tip certain individuals early, because the art resembled what the public THOUGHT the crime scene looked like. The "sticks" turned out to be branches that depicted nothing save a disorganized chaotic killer's panicked mind. The runes turned out to be not runes but the last attempt of a dying child to keep herself upright.

Keep in mind there was also a rumor early on that the girls had been exsanguinated and hung from trees, their blood drained and somehow magically removed from the scene and the public immediately tipped in people who had shared images of Odin and the hanged man of Norse mythology on Facebook.

The fact that LL and so many others are still pushing this garbage for clicks is outrageous to me and why I choose to give their "reporting" not a single ounce of consideration. JMO MOO

 

[Mitch1]

this is why I do not follow LL. Because they misrepresented even in their rhetorical question posted upthread. LITERALLY nobody had a crime scene photo on their Facebook. Someone had a piece of "art" that depicted something that some moron thought resembled the crime scene. But the rumor machine infected the public and that rumor is what caused Facebook "detectives" to tip certain individuals early, because the art resembled what the public THOUGHT the crime scene looked like. The "sticks" turned out to be branches that depicted nothing save a disorganized chaotic killer's panicked mind. The runes turned out to be not runes but the last attempt of a dying child to keep herself upright.

Keep in mind there was also a rumor early on that the girls had been exsanguinated and hung from trees, their blood drained and somehow magically removed from the scene and the public immediately tipped in people who had shared images of Odin and the hanged man of Norse mythology on Facebook.

The fact that LL and so many others are still pushing this garbage for clicks is outrageous to me and why I choose to give their "reporting" not a single ounce of consideration. JMO MOO

I watch LL, I have found her to be well informed (after all she has attended every day of the trial) and her commentary is informative without being heavily biased. Not to mention she has quite a respectable CV from what I gather she is a Harvard grad and worked in the appellate courts. Anyway-tonight she has JumpsuitPablo on, could be quite interesting and what a juxtaposition that’s gonna be

 

[Warwick7]

RSBM

Checking/working on the ATMs every, to me, would include using the computer at home to check in their status & not necessarily physically going to the ATMs. Also, he didn’t seem to mind pointing out the locations where the ATMs are at may have camera footage showing when he was there or not there. I would think a person trying to hide something would not have offered that up freely when simply asked if the ATMs have cameras - a yes or no clearly would have sufficed.

JMO

ETA not (have offered)

BBM
Another Boom!! Bam!! I didn't see this yesterday...

 

[FrostedGlass]

Ha, the D planning to appeal a Guilty verdict even before the trial is over in an example of their excellent work? Maybe they ought to find out the definition of “nexus” first.

Absolutely! Every defense attorney lays the foundation for appeal. That's part of the job.
Some do it far better than others. These two are in the "far better" group.

With all their years of experience, I'm sure they know the definition of nexus.
That remark was his frustration with with.
MOO

 

[Warwick7]

DAY FIFTEEN Murder Sheet

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Fifteen: Allen's Family Speaks

We discuss the fifteenth day of Richard Allen's trial. We heard from Allen's sister Jamie Jones and daughter Brittany Zapanta, as well as testimony from Brad...

murdersheetpodcast.com

Part 2: Jury Questions [fabulous questions]

[anything in parenthesis are MY comments---the rest are notes from listening to podcast]

Dr Westcutt had talked about while RA was in his cell he could hear inmates yelling at him to kill himself—and he was scared of this...

Q: —so the Jury question was," If he had the common sense to fear for his safety, then could he have the common sense to fake psychosis?"

A= Dr W: that’s a good question but he was more scared in March, which was a lead up to his odd behaviour [how could she know that though?]

Q=When someone has depression and anxiety as a child, could it lead them to commit crimes as an adult ?

A= "it depends upon the person/ IN Ra’s case, he is more passive and subdued" , according to her assessment...

Q=[Dr Westcutt had said she watched all these videos of RA to prepare her assessment— so a J asked her if she watched the police interviews?
A= NO

[MS said that the police interviews, in their opinion, show a different person than the Dr was describing today—not as passive as she describes]

Q= Is he diagnosed with major depression w/psychosis or with a psychotic disorder ?

A= the former , the latter would be schizophrenia

Diener said so you are saying these are episodes of psychosis instead of a life long thing?

And Westcutt said " psychosis can ebb and flow with the depression…" {YES, I knew it, thank you]

Q: people wanted to know about the objective tests—

A: she said 'those are well accepted and there are even cook book type things where you can see symptoms and this is a sign of this or malingering or whatever… [that makes them sound kind of sketchy]


Q: Are there medical records for RA that have previous objective tests for RA ?

A=No, most of his symptoms were self reported, he wasn’t doing those in depth cognitive tests

Q people wanted to know about delusions vs delirium
A=Delusion example--you might think u are the president. Delirium is almost like being in a fun house, don’t know where you are etc—

Sidebar/break/sidebar

Apparently Dr Westcutt would not share all of the test results w/Prosecution—Diener called them out —Rozzi said u could have deposed her—JG said it was a Discovery issue, not depo issue...it got kind of heated

omg! @katydid23 BAM!!!!!
Bolden by me...
Great job!!!!!

 

[Jamie737]

Are there any phone calls where RA recanted his confessions to his family?

 

[ClearAhead]

this is why I do not follow LL. Because they misrepresented even in their rhetorical question posted upthread. LITERALLY nobody had a crime scene photo on their Facebook. Someone had a piece of "art" that depicted something that some moron thought resembled the crime scene. But the rumor machine infected the public and that rumor is what caused Facebook "detectives" to tip certain individuals early, because the art resembled what the public THOUGHT the crime scene looked like. The "sticks" turned out to be branches that depicted nothing save a disorganized chaotic killer's panicked mind. The runes turned out to be not runes but the last attempt of a dying child to keep herself upright.

Keep in mind there was also a rumor early on that the girls had been exsanguinated and hung from trees, their blood drained and somehow magically removed from the scene and the public immediately tipped in people who had shared images of Odin and the hanged man of Norse mythology on Facebook.

The fact that LL and so many others are still pushing this garbage for clicks is outrageous to me and why I choose to give their "reporting" not a single ounce of consideration. JMO MOO

Wow this a real eye opener, the collective organization of an online stampede to gather online evidence only based on false rumours. How pathetic, these followers probably felt they were accomplishing something important. People who are aware of these shenanigans who don’t see anything wrong with it ought to take a second look at their own personal values.

And finally the answer - this sounds exactly the reason for the oft-repeated reference by LE to the youtubers who were “not getting it right”, resulting in wrong tips.

JMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I did also. Not saying that she's correct in all conclusions but her approach and detailed methodology, and responses in direct and cross are much more in line with my professional experience and what I'd tend to expect from an expert witness, perhaps especially in a high-profile case.

And aren't most/all expert witnesses provided with some form of payment for their expert reports there? That's standard in my experience. Is the issue that she was paid too much?

I don't think this verdict is likely to come down to duelling experts. But I do think she did her job. The state might also have brought in a more capable witness to support Dr W's analysis. Can they still do this?

My concern is she only had 20 hours of RA video to watch and this was provided by defense. Then she spent 7 hours with RA over the course of 2 days. As we can see now, RA is able to present normal when he wants to ( even under intense stress).
I think Wala had more insight into his day to day behavior and therefore was capable of determining RA’s baseline behavior and when he was feigning symptoms or acting out due to stress.
It didn’t make me doubt his confessions to his family and Wala or Warden.
JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

Absolutely! Every defense attorney lays the foundation for appeal. That's part of the job.
Some do it far better than others. These two are in the "far better" group.

With all their years of experience, I'm sure they know the definition of nexus.
That remark was his frustration with with.
MOO

We know they’ve already did it at the beginning of the trial as soon as the branches were mentioned. This was just for show.

 

[photographer4]

There isn't any because he wasn't in the location of the murders during the State's timeline so they motioned to have it suppressed (Motion in Limine, end of April 2024) and the judge granted it.

if he wasn’t in the location of the murders during the state’s timeline wouldn’t that be exculpatory? Why did the judge suppress this???

 

[arielilane]

9:06 A.M.: STATE MOTIONS TO PREVENT TESTIMONY​

Around 9:06 a.m., state prosecutors filed a motion to limine against defense expert Stuart Grassian.

Grassian was expected to testify about the effects of solitary confinement on an inmate, but the prosecution’s motion is an attempt to limit or prevent evidence, or in this case, a testimony, from the jury.

It wasn’t clear how Judge Gull would rule on the motion.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Day 16 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins Tuesday at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

wishtv.com

 

[somequestions]

Not sure if he said he was on bridge but he did talk about the girls.

Bar owner: Delphi murder suspect sat by wanted poster, spoke about case

Bob Matlock, the owner of the now-closed JC’s Bar an Grill in Delphi, Indiana, said murder suspect Richard Allen, 50, is a married dad-of-two who came to his tavern 3-4 times a week.

nypost.com

I never thought it would be someone like Richard Allen. But the van detail revealed at trial from one of Richard Allen's confessions is going to be hard to overcome. It appears he is probably the murderer based on that confession to Dr. Walla, even if he somehow managed to get back to his car after the murders without being seen(except by SC while she was driving on W 300 N).

If we are the believe the phone data about the time when Liberty German's phone stopped moving and the time when SC sees bridge guy at 3:57pm walking along W 300 N muddy and bloody, that means the killer was with the girls for over an hour after crossing the creek. According to Richard Allen's confessions, that could be because he stayed around to make sure the girls were dead.

Staying with the girls for that long showed a level of patience. It was not hard to guess the killer was probably an older person. In my opinion, the person in Liberty German's phone video always looked like an older person.

 

[justtrish]

this is why I do not follow LL. Because they misrepresented even in their rhetorical question posted upthread. LITERALLY nobody had a crime scene photo on their Facebook. Someone had a piece of "art" that depicted something that some moron thought resembled the crime scene. But the rumor machine infected the public and that rumor is what caused Facebook "detectives" to tip certain individuals early, because the art resembled what the public THOUGHT the crime scene looked like. The "sticks" turned out to be branches that depicted nothing save a disorganized chaotic killer's panicked mind. The runes turned out to be not runes but the last attempt of a dying child to keep herself upright.

Keep in mind there was also a rumor early on that the girls had been exsanguinated and hung from trees, their blood drained and somehow magically removed from the scene and the public immediately tipped in people who had shared images of Odin and the hanged man of Norse mythology on Facebook.

The fact that LL and so many others are still pushing this garbage for clicks is outrageous to me and why I choose to give their "reporting" not a single ounce of consideration. JMO MOO

Oh yes the hanging from the trees that was detailed in one of the many Franks memos that was quoted over and over here on WS.. the yellow rope that must have been used to hang them up.. yeah okay you mean the yellow rope that LE used to mark a pathway into the area so NOT to contaminate the crime scene? They said there was a lack of blood so they must have been killed somewhere else and brought back in the middle of the night yada yada yada... but yet there was large pools of blood beneath and close to the girls and all of it explained in detail making perfect sense of how they were killed right there and bled out right there by an actual expert not a magical thinking one. All that hoopla about a ritual and yet this group they wanted to blame is NOT known to do any of the sort of things they laid out as facts in their memo. Then their "expert" that used magical thinking.. Good grief and it's a ritual because it was outside by the water. They have shown ZERO proof and how anyone can believe their Franks are true after these actual facts have came out is beyond me. And some wonder why we don't trust the defense because they aren't supposed to lie in official court filing. Oh no they can't do that, so it must be true because they had all those footnotes and backed up their claims with citations.. but they did lie a lot. Now it's the judge's fault and she is just showing her bias.. OR how about she's fed up with their lack of proof and all this wasting of the courts time with their false claims. I would think any lawyer doing half of what they have done would be on thin ice with any judge presiding over a trial.

IMO

Hopefully this week we see justice fulfilled for Abby and Libby.