Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211

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Horrible mistake made by reporting that! Boy were mouths flapping about it. In fact, according to AB, after saying she loved her dad, she looked directly at him and smiled. So, I hope that his finally puts to rest all the disgusting conversations surrounding the rumours that he assaulted his daughter or his sister. BZ LOVES her father. Enough. Period. JMO
Unless they were tested at the time, there is no way to prove if this had happened. I certainly don’t believe them because they are supporting the man that killed Abby and Libby. He claims he did do it and, considering what he has been charged with, I believe him as nothing he does would shock me at this stage. He is a sick predator that wanted to rape children and would have if he hadn't got spooked and, which I might add, he openly admits too.

Moo
 
Yeah I think more than anything she just wants her husband back & she wants it so bad she can't think of anything else
IMO

And the sad truth is that if RA is deemed "Not Guilty" and returns home KA will never have her "husband" back. Her fairytale is over. Can you imagine KA finding herself in fear of what RA might do to her? I believe that the fear would naturally escalate quickly.
 
Yes, for the record in case it got missed….

ONE MORE ATTEMPT AT ODINISM, THIRD PARTY THEORY: After the jury had left for the day, Baldwin made another run at an offer of proof to introduce evidence about a third-party theory that Abby and Libby were victims of a ritual killing done by people practicing Odinism/old Norse paganism. Judge Fran Gull has knocked down each of those attempts, ruling that the burden was on Allen’s attorneys “to show a nexus between Odinism, cult or ritualistic killing” or any of the names of the men attached to the third-party theory.

On Monday, Baldwin asked about a couple of possibilities. In one, he referenced testimony from a former ISP detective during a pretrial hearing, in which he said a suspect in the alleged Odinist plot had asked him after an interview in early 2018 whether, if traces of his spit were found on one of the girls but he could explain why, would he still be in trouble. Baldwin said he wanted to asked investigators whether that sort of spit evidence would have been used against Baldwin in trial. He asked the same about recreations of the crime scene posted on social media. Would that have been used against Allen at trial if found among his things?

“We’ve had this conversation a thousand times,” Gull told Baldwin. She said the defense needed to show a nexus between the crime and the Odinist plot.

“I believe there’s more than a nexus,” Baldwin said. He said he wasn’t sure what Gull’s definition of nexus was, though.

Either way, Baldwin said he wanted the question on the record “for the Court of Appeals.”
These defense attorneys are doing an excellent job of making a record for appeal.
It's just so important to do that.
MOO
 
And the sad truth is that if RA is deemed "Not Guilty" and returns home KA will never have her "husband" back. Her fairytale is over. Can you imagine KA finding herself in fear of what RA might do to her? I believe that the fear would naturally escalate quickly.

Thankfully she won't have to find out. Imo.
 
I am wondering if after Wescott testimony that Allen is a fragile egg, a passive person, subdue etc opened the doors to the video of him in Cass Country screaming and threatening the guards?
I wagered yesreday that we'd now see that come in.

If/when it does, I hope the Prosecution turns it full screen towards the gallery so that everyone in the courtroom can see it --- "Here's the real RA when he ain't fakin' it folks!"


Anyone else see something out there from yesterday's psych expert that "RA had self-reported his symptoms to her"?? Was I dreaming it
 
Who is to say he wasn't already telling the truth in those initial 20-25 "I didn't do it!"admissions during those two interrogations, but especially October 26th, 2022.

JMO MOO JMT
RA could get on the stand and tell the jury himself. Absent that, they see two versions of RA. Which version of RA speaks the truth?

jmo
 
I found BW to be a credible witness. moo

I did also. Not saying that she's correct in all conclusions but her approach and detailed methodology, and responses in direct and cross are much more in line with my professional experience and what I'd tend to expect from an expert witness, perhaps especially in a high-profile case.

And aren't most/all expert witnesses provided with some form of payment for their expert reports there? That's standard in my experience. Is the issue that she was paid too much?

I don't think this verdict is likely to come down to duelling experts. But I do think she did her job. The state might also have brought in a more capable witness to support Dr W's analysis. Can they still do this?
 
RSBM BBM

Perfectly logical. Dozens of conversations since when, spring/summer & you never once ask what the judge means when nexus is mentioned? That’s reaching pretty deep down into the realms of ridiculousness. Do these people even hear what they’re saying? Do they really think folks sitting in that courtroom are that ignorant? Pot calls kettle black for $1000, Ken.

MOOOOOOOOOOOO

ETA first line

Surely he was being sarcastic?
 
And the sad truth is that if RA is deemed "Not Guilty" and returns home KA will never have her "husband" back. Her fairytale is over. Can you imagine KA finding herself in fear of what RA might do to her? I believe that the fear would naturally escalate quickly.
I don't think she'll have fear of her husband. If a Not Guilty is returned they will most likely be busy and embroiled in a civil suit over how the state handled him when he was in the DOC care but totally agree their lives have been changed forever no matter what happens with the jury.
 
RA could get on the stand and tell the jury himself. Absent that, they see two versions of RA. Which version of RA speaks the truth?

jmo
That is what I am of the opinion of that could hang the jury. The juxtaposition of the RA who was lucid and denied many, many times during the early interrogations or the shrunken image of his depravity of so we "hear" of the prison video confessions that are contradictory e.g. I molested my family, I racked a bullet on the bridge, I shot the girls etc. etc. Other than that, the prosecution's case in my opinion was somewhat weak on both circumstantial and forensic evidence.
 
@LawyerLeeW

Richard Allen's attorney Brad Rozzi said he would like to ask Lt. Holeman: "If there were a big crime scene photo on Richard Allen's computer of human girls with sticks on them, would it be used as evidence against Richard Allen?" Two other suspects supposedly had Facebook posts like that. Neither was charged.#DelphiTrial #RichardAllen #JusticeForAbbyandLibby

RSBM

If only Rozzi had actually presented hard evidence at the Motion in Limine hearing instead of making wild claims about Facebook posts. Was the picture even adduced into evidence? All i heard was some strange story about going out of state and it costs $10K+

I've never actually seen admissible proof - e.g. from Facebook subpoena, that the person in question ever made such a post, let alone that it has anything to do with the crime.

This is the problem with conspiracy law
 
Agreed. From my understanding, 3 teens with a 6 year old. The little one could easily get lost amongst 6 pairs of legs, particularly if the man was "walking with a purpose ". Eyewitness testimony is often hit & miss with certain details.

JMO

There were numerous stories that a young child was with the girls' so it was assumed but it was never confirmed.

From what someone else reported from the courtroom, the four girls' consisted of two older teens, a 13 year old and a 12 year old.

Is this not correct?
 
And Weber yelled “No, that’s not correct”
No, that's incorrectly stated, according to the link. It was, "That's not correct! No!" That yell was in answer to Baldwin saying, "You went and worked on your ATM machines."

Baldwin: "You didn’t drive straight home from work on Feb. 13."
Weber: "That’s not correct."
Baldwin: "You told law enforcement on Feb. 17 or Feb. 18 you went and worked on your ATM machines."
Weber: "I said I dropped off a trailer."
Baldwin: "That was earlier in the day. You went and worked on your ATM machines."
Weber: "(Starts yelling) That’s not correct! No!"
 
And Richard Allen moo, has stepped forward as a perfect candidate to leave this very type of paradoxical CS: Organized CVS worker and former National Guard member, gun owner, homeowner, spouse and father; vs troubled alcoholic, a bad-tempered and demanding personality that displays aggression, fits of rage and madness, and someone that confesses and then seems to "unconfess" to murdering two little girls on a trail with a box cutter after being "interrupted" by a van. To put it bluntly, RA's thinking appears "scattered," sometimes rational and quite well considered, and other times not. And he left a CS that reflects that. Overall, though, I think RA is a lot more cunning than some give him credit for, and he may in the end have committed fewer "unforced errors" than he'd like us to believe.

Very interesting analysis -- I tend to agree.

Plenty of bad actors are pitiable once caught.

Plenty of those were capable of inspiring real and terrible fear during the commission of their crimes.

Different venues = different self-presentations, not different selves.

I'd suggest that the distance between those two "selves" is roughly equal to the distance between long-held and rehearsed fantasy and the much more disturbing reality of that day on the bridge, when nothing quite conformed to the original scenario and something like panic set in, with horrific results.

JMO, MOO, etc.
 
There were numerous stories that a young child was with the girls' so it was assumed but it was never confirmed.

From what someone else reported from the courtroom, the four girls' consisted of two older teens, a 13 year old and a 12 year old.

Is this not correct?
The little girl was what I recall. I could very well be mistaken.

JMO
 

Around 9:06 a.m., state prosecutors filed a motion to limine against defense expert Stuart Grassian.

Grassian was expected to testify about the effects of solitary confinement on an inmate, but the prosecution’s motion is an attempt to limit or prevent evidence, or in this case, a testimony, from the jury.

It wasn’t clear how Judge Gull would rule on the motion.
 
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