VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #214

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  • #661
But you can’t conclude that it’s RA just because eyewitness testimony is unreliable. The state has the high burden of proof, and this is definitely a bad fact for the state.
Not to mention the trial is now over so all there is only what is evidentiary and testified to at trial. As a person who started at the point of trial with this case and didn't "follow" avidly" for 7 years the prosecution was weaker than I expected and the defense did the best they could with what they were allowed to use. I think the verdict is anyone's guess. If the jury is hung I will watch the do-over with great interest. If he's guilty I will watch the appeal with great interest. If he's acquitted...well unfortunately that's on the prosecution and the state and it becomes a blame game in the public. It's got to be far more excruciating for all the families than for us and that is tough to think about.
 
  • #662
The jury asking to see the Holeman interrogation and the BG video reassures me. :)
 
  • #663
  • #664
I am methodical. If I were a juror, I would want to start where there is consensus, move through the evidence, then the charges, and even if there was full agreement, I would want to wade through it once more, in a fair attempt to weigh the opposite conclusion, to make sure I can answer for reasonable/unreasonable doubt.

I imagine this jury is doing exactly that. Checking now to see if those crucial pieces of evidence -- Libby's video and Holeman's interview -- hold up to their anticipated verdict.

Buttoning up.

We may see a quick verdict to follow if I'm right about why they're reviewing these videos now. No more deliberation needed, just confirmation and then a verdict.

The only remaining task, filling out the charges paperwork, which they could reasonably wait until next week to do, after 36 hours of decompression.

JMO
 
  • #665
Did the geofence area also include the bridge? I thought it was just the area around where the murders happened.
The whole trail area Ives the prosecutor has given interviews in the past about what geo fencing data they got, I think they got a search warrant very early on to try to see what phones were pinging off the tower
I'm not sure if he said there was only one tower in Delphi that provided coverage for the trials, locals will know more about towers in Delphi
 
  • #666
Thank you for that.

As I recall, the defense here discussed a geofencing report with boundaries including the Crime Scene, and not including the north or south end of the bridge, nor does it include the trail leading from parking?

Do we know if this is the geofencing report in evidence at trial? Is it the Crime Scene?

If the geofence report is a study around the crime scene and doesn't include other areas, the conclusion (as to RA) would be that RA was not at the CS. If the geofencing reports do not include the eyewitness trail path, or the north/south/middle of the high bridge ... that report would not include nor exclude any phone as to those locations. There'd be zero info on a phone that didn't make it to the Crime Scene.

I suppose I'd need a geofence expert to help me understanding why a geofence study of the CS, that proves RA's phone was not present, meets any burden of proof that RA was there at the CS during the geofence study timeframe, and during the State's timeline.

JMHO
I don’t think the tower dump is the same thing as the geofence report.
 
  • #667
I hear you! I cleaned our couch and loveseat a little bit ago. Did they need it? Maybe. Did it need to be done today? No. Am I distracting myself? YESSSSS!
Feeling you on that! Baseboards are next :D ;)
 
  • #668
#UPDATE: The defense team has left the building after about 4 hours inside the courthouse. Appears there is still no verdict #DelphiTrial

I think reviewing these specific things might be the final touches. It will either lead to a verdict or them telling the judge they can't reach one. What all was said in that Holeman interrogation? Was that the second one? The one his wife says you said you weren't on the bridge.. also the one where he said if that photo is from the girls phone it isn't him.. also the one he got angry?
 
  • #669
  • #670
Jury asked to watch the Holeman interrogation video and BG video. They leave at 2 today.
At 2pm?
What?
I have never watched a jury come so late and leave so early....
 
  • #671
Seems like to me that the jury might have wanted to compare voices from the Holeman interview with RA to the voice on Libby’s video of the BG.
Richard Allen to Investigators during his interview: I was on the 1st platform of the bridge watching the fishies.

BB: I saw BG standing on the 1st Platform of the bridge.

KA: "Richard, you told me you weren't on the bridge."
 
  • #672
  • #673
I think reviewing these specific things might be the final touches. It will either lead to a verdict or them telling the judge they can't reach one. What all was said in that Holeman interrogation? Was that the second one? The one his wife says you said you weren't on the bridge.. also the one where he said if that photo is from the girls phone it isn't him.. also the one he got angry?
I think the Holeman interview is one of the strongest pieces of evidence in RA’s favor.
 
  • #674
At 2pm?
What?
I have never watched a jury come so late and leave so early....
Me neither- thinking they are just exhausted or facing a hung jury- couple of hold outs and just aren’t making much progress :(

Hope I’m wrong- moo
 
  • #675
One thing I didn't think of until now is that he may have used the boxcutter as another means of control, without necessarily planning for it to become the murder weapon. A blade to my BF's neck would be a compelling, terrifying deterrent. It was also a dynamic situation, as evidenced by the sudden, new variable -- the van. RA could have forced AW to undress, then redress, telling them he'd let them go if they cooperated. And now holding a blade to one neck, the scene could have shifted. Either girl moves, control collapses and he slices. Reactive. Even to him, who started this awful series of awful events, it had to be as if out of a horror movie, one victim spiraling while losing blood under pressure.

One of RA's confessions -- that only the murderer would know -- gets lost in all this.

That the girls didn't die immediately.

Only someone who was THERE (or an MD who knows the nature of the wounds and the process of death by exsanguination). RA said he didn't want them to suffer. I dont believe he was suddenly compassionate or magnanimous, but I do believe he saw firsthand that their deaths were not immediate. And he waited there. To make sure they were dead. All the way dead. Until their suffering was over.

You'd have had to be there to know that.

JMO
That is very interesting. And awful. Just absolutely awful..those poor poor girls
 
  • #676
Well no verdict today! I think the jurors are doing a very thorough job and not at all rushing to get home even though they have been sequestered for so long. Kudos to them.

Justice for Abby and Libby!
 
  • #677
Maybe they wanted to watch the interrogation video to see the way he moves. Although, they did warn when the BG video was released that he was walking like that because of the bridge.
 
  • #678
  • #679

1:52 P.M.: DEFENSE, RICHARD ALLEN LEAVE COURTHOUSE​

News 8’s Kyla Russell says Richard Allen and his defense team were seen leaving the Carroll County courthouse just before 2 p.m. Saturday.

It was unclear why the group departed or if the jury was still in deliberation.


12:04 P.M.: JURY STILL IN DELIBERATION​

In an update from News 8’s Kyla Russell, jurors were still in deliberation around noon Saturday.

The jury have until 4 p.m. Saturday to deliberate at the Carroll County courthouse. If they are unable to reach a verdict Saturday, discussions will continue Monday.

9:58 A.M.: RICHARD ALLEN ARRIVES AT COURTHOUSE​

9:42 A.M.: DEFENSE ARRIVES AT COURTHOUSE​

News 8’s Kyla Russell reports the defense attorneys for Richard Allen have arrived at the Carroll County courthouse for the third day – or second full day – of jury deliberations.

Defense-arrives-2-1024x768.jpeg.webp
 
  • #680
One could also say that there could be some jurors who have the same questions as some of us here about it being proved beyond a reasonable doubt
 
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