VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #214

[Snoop Sister]

dbm

 

[Boxer]

It is a very weird crime scene. The sticks and branches do seem to be purposely placed, and not as concealment. One girl unclothed and the other with two sets of clothing. And blood on Libby running up her face instead of down her torso. Moving at least one of the bodies 20 feet, but no drag marks.

It makes no sense, but that does not seem to be the scene of someone who hastily murdered these girls after being spooked by a van on the other side of the creek. IMO whoever did this took them right to that spot and spent some time there. It also seems more consistent with more than one bad guy.

Seems totally consistent with his behavior after arrest, weird, aggressive and chaotic.

 

[Tortoise]

You got it on the nail!

I was waiting for someone to notice and was even counting down the minutes - actually hours.

The blood flow is going in an antigravity direction.

How could that be missed?

There should at least be blood on Libby's torso and front - even arms and legs.

JMO MOO JMT

I have wondered - purely speculation - whether Libby had a log underneath her neck, so that her head was tilted backwards. It could have been the large log/branch pulled out and put on top of her afterwards.

 

[acehard]

"When the interview resumed, Mullin showed him the “Bridge Guy” picture. Allen said if the photo was from one of the Delphi victims’ phones, “there’s no way” it could’ve been him.

He then terminated the interview, Mullin said."

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

They showed him a photo of bridge guy on the bridge.

View attachment 543987
ISP: "We're going to track them down"

He didn't say -

1. 'no, that's not me'
2. 'no, I wasn't on the bridge'

His only concern with that picture was to do with it being on Libby's phone. He didn't rule out that it was him, or that he was on the bridge when shown the photo.

His lack of these important denials is as good as a positive identification of himself, given that he knew he was a suspect at that time IMO.

Take that together with

- his sensitivity as regards it being on Libby's phone
- changing the time he was there to distance himself from the time of the crime
- adding two inches to his height on his fishing licence 2 months after the crime,

I'd say yes, he ID'd himself as bridge guy before his 2023 and 2024 confessions.

IMO

And that doesn't even include details about his gun/bullet, the clothes he wore, his voice on the recording, and his phone not being at the crime scene.

He voluntarily went to the police an put himself in the area, so that's a given. His concern is disproving he's the one on the phone. I don't see how that's an issue. MOO

 

[Tortoise]

He voluntarily went to the police an put himself in the area, so that's a given. His concern is disproving he's the one on the phone. I don't see how that's an issue. MOO

He now wants to claim he didn't go on the bridge, when he didn't say that when shown the photo. They were even referring to the man as BRIDGE guy.

 

[INfisherman]

Could the defense not have investigated BG's height? Instead of all the work they put into people who were not suspects? That could have been a really fast and very effective defense. IMO

It evidently was more important to accidentally on purpose leak other photos.

ETA JMO

 

[INfisherman]

How they got to Allen was completely organic. They saw that statement saying he was there, followed up with him, developed probable cause, served a search warrant, and ultimately had enough to arrest him.

RSBM

IIRC Ironically RA told Holeman to arrest him & Holeman was more than happy to oblige. Ask & ye shall receive, brother.

JMO

 

[BrownRice]

11. The jury will restart deliberations Sat morning at 9:00. If there is no verdict by Sat night, jurors will get an off day on Sun before resuming discussions Mon morning.


That surprises me that they will deliberate on Monday. That's a federal holiday and the court's closed. So are all those employees coming in on a holiday---bailiffs, attendants, court clerks, etc?

I remember judges in other trials telling jurors they couldn't come in on Sundays or holidays because of that.

Could it be these are state / county employees so they are working and don’t have day off. I think kids have school.

 

[Inthedetails]

Could it be these are state / county employees so they are working and don’t have day off. I think kids have school.

Veteran's Day is an official State Holiday in Indiana. If the jury reaches a verdict today, we won't have to wonder about Monday - hoping that is the case.

State Holidays

www.in.gov

 

[BrownRice]

"When the interview resumed, Mullin showed him the “Bridge Guy” picture. Allen said if the photo was from one of the Delphi victims’ phones, “there’s no way” it could’ve been him.

He then terminated the interview, Mullin said."

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

They showed him a photo of bridge guy on the bridge.

View attachment 543987
ISP: "We're going to track them down"

He didn't say -

1. 'no, that's not me'
2. 'no, I wasn't on the bridge'

His only concern with that picture was to do with it being on Libby's phone. He didn't rule out that it was him, or that he was on the bridge when shown the photo.

His lack of these important denials is as good as a positive identification of himself, given that he knew he was a suspect at that time IMO.

Take that together with

- his sensitivity as regards it being on Libby's phone
- changing the time he was there to distance himself from the time of the crime
- adding two inches to his height on his fishing licence 2 months after the crime,

I'd say yes, he ID'd himself as bridge guy before his 2023 and 2024 confessions.

IMO

And that doesn't even include details about his gun/bullet, the clothes he wore, his voice on the recording, and his phone not being at the crime scene.

Excellent post! The jurors seem like they’re really analyzing the evidence, asking provoking questions. Hopefully they are taking these points into consideration as well.

 

[INfisherman]

I do agree those branches were purposely placed, especially the ones going across each of their necks. I think the other sticks were used to balance the ones on their necks, but who the hell knows?

I don't know how anyone could tell if there were drag marks or not as the ground is saturated with leaves and twigs. Even in some alternate universe where two or more sexually motivated killers were working in tandem, there would be no need to pick up a dead body anyway.

Everything says one guy to me, from historical precedent to the crime scene itself. It's chaos, just like you'd expect from a mentally unstable guy who had probably been drinking. I'd be willing to bet Allen doesn't even know why he did certain things.

The only other type of case where I've come across an unspent round being at a crime scene, was an armed robbery situation where the gunman racked the gun to scare his victims. That makes perfect sense to me here, and would be entirely unnecessary with multiple offenders.

The blood evidence seems to indicate that Libby briefly attempted to flee, which you also wouldn't expect with multiple offenders.

You also have the fact that neither girl was raped, which is rare enough for one killer but has to be rarer still with multiple.

Could one man lead a couple scared girls down a hill, force them to do his bidding, and murder them by slitting their throats? I'd say absolutely. Throwing in another person or two is just such a massive reach to me, as I see nothing supporting it and everything pointing away from it.

I'm not sure about this whole truck thing and if he was spooked or not, and agree that he would have had to have spent some time with them after that. Adding more people into the mix doesn't change that, as he was armed with a gun. That's a force multiplier that makes another person unnecessary.

Apologies if already mentioned - behind a bit.

Jumping off of this idea & to add…

Not to mention the astronomical odds of multiple people failing to leave any useful forensic evidence behind. The more people present, the more likely something gets missed or left behind.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Prosecution could have used the defense expert's testimony in their closing argument.

Direct questioning ended and cross-examination began. Grassian said a real memory is “extremely perceptual” when compared to a fake memory.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Lauren (HTC) gave a lot more detail on that testimony, saying that he said there would be sights and feelings described in the real memory (I'm paraphrasing).

They could have gone through Allen's May 3rd detailed confession and shown how it was perceptual, in more respects than just mentioning a van that only the killer would know about.

IMO

 

[susane7]

I hope the jury have common sense and find him guilty. I think even if the veredict is guilty it could may take a while because they have so many things to discuss, the mistakes in the investigation etc. But I hope it will be a guilty veredict..maybe wishful thinking..IMO

This case makes me very sad with the humanity. The victims are lost in this, the murder of two little girls has turning into a circus, this new mode of "no one is guilty, it is everything a conspiracy" and to idolize accused murderers, defense attorneys using other defense attorneys (law tubers) and youtubers to spread misinformation and tainted the jury pool, accuse innocent people, leaking pics of nude murdered children, etc etc. I never expected this when I started following the case.

 

[katydid23]

Prosecution could have used the defense expert's testimony in their closing argument.

Direct questioning ended and cross-examination began. Grassian said a real memory is “extremely perceptual” when compared to a fake memory.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Lauren (HTC) gave a lot more detail on that testimony, saying that he said there would be sights and feelings described in the real memory (I'm paraphrasing).

They could have gone through Allen's May 3rd detailed confession and shown how it was perceptual, in more respects than just mentioning a van that only the killer would know about.

IMO

I agree theoretically----but the problem w/that confession is Dr Wala messed up big time. So people are quick to denounce her and have doubts in her retelling of the event.

If she had THAT confession on tape, he'd get a Guilty verdict , IMO.

 

[DS2021]

I'm curious to see those work records.

Seems unusual for a man in his forties to start committing sex crimes by murdering two teenage girls on a sunny afternoon in February?

Unfortunately, there are so many violent sexual offenders in this world. Theres no shortage of people who are capable of this level of violence.

Im not super familiar with the Evansdale case, but unless the MO is extremely similar, i don't have any reason to believe that they're linked

 

[Tortoise]

I agree theoretically----but the problem w/that confession is Dr Wala messed up big time. So people are quick to denounce her and have doubts in her retelling of the event.

If she had THAT confession on tape, he'd get a Guilty verdict , IMO.

Even if Dr Wala had read about a van no one knew the timing of the van would match with Libby's phone data until after this confession.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The only reference to his phone not being in the evidence, that I've been able to find so far, is this -

"Liggett said there’s no digital evidence that links Allen, but Allen was on his phone at that time on the bridge."

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

"The defense asked, "Out of the hundreds of thousands of pieces of evidence, digital evidence, does any tie to Richard Allen?"

Liggett said, "No." "

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 6 | No other report of Allen on trails other than self-reported tip

Six witnesses took the stand on Thursday in Day 6 of the Delphi Murders Trial with testimony focusing on the early stages of the case against Richard Allen.

www.wrtv.com

The phone RA was allegedly using that he showed to Dan Dulin somehow mysteriously vanished out of all the almost dozen of phones and devices that he so meticulously kept all those years.

Coincidence? I think not, I believe RA destroyed that phone and probably chucked it in the CVS dumpster along with the murder weapon. CSAM purveyors know how to keep their digital evidence hidden as we've learned the hard way over the years.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

We can just use some good old common sense with this one. The dumps would have been for a certain time period before and after the murders. Allen told police he was there during that timeframe. We know that law enforcement was contacting people whose phone numbers came up during that time period, to include a witness who testified (I think she said it was her mother's phone or something).

Allen said he was using his phone to repeatedly check stock quotes, which doesn't come close to passing the smell test unless he is some sort of prolific day trader (no evidence of that).

He should be in that tower dump, but we've heard that no digital evidence puts him there that day. Here that absence of evidence is evidence.

Evidence of Allen being a liar. Evidence of premeditated murder.

BBM

That is asking quite a bit of some folks, next to impossible for many.

JMO

 

[Vern]

You got it on the nail!

I was waiting for someone to notice and was even counting down the minutes - actually hours.

The blood flow is going in an antigravity direction.

How could that be missed?

There should at least be blood on Libby's torso and front - even arms and legs.

JMO MOO JMT

As a veteran, I suspect that he carried Libby to the final place (easier to carry than to drag IMO experience of carrying 250lb casevac); her head would be down and ergo and blood flow over her face. In which case, the blood would be flowing exactly 'with gravity' and over her face towards the ground; no drag marks at the scene. He may have dragged her up from the tree that she rested against, her feet going through the pool of her own blood, picked her up from there then carried her and placed her where he did.

Nothingburger.

Just another nothingburger. IMO.

 

[dm799]

Gotta be a decent chance of a verdict today!

MOO I find it so incredible to think that if Allen had just kept his mouth shut he would have most likely been allowed to simply live out the rest of his life in the community.

Instead he handed the state their entire case.