VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #214

[INfisherman]

And in my opinion those rulings were wrong.

I'm not just referring to the Odinism either, there seemed to be many things the D were blocked on, I've never seen anything like it.

Moo.

I’ve never seen evidence leaks before. Maybe the D should be happy they’re even standing in that courtroom allowed to try their case at all.

MOO

 

[Warwick7]

And in my opinion those rulings were wrong.

I'm not just referring to the Odinism either, there seemed to be many things the D were blocked on, I've never seen anything like it.

Moo.

However, what matters is what the Judge rules. There was a situation I wanted the P to have, yet the Judge ruled no. It is what it is, and we move forward.

 

[ClearAhead]

The Jury Instructions lists each of the elements which the Jury must consider in finding RA is guilty or not guilty of the four separate charges. It’s not as quick and simple as only one he-did-it vote. JMO

_Instructions of Court Pursuant to Criminal Rule and Jury Rule 20 of the Indiana Supreme Court of the State of Indiana.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[al66pine]

Impasse Instruction in IN?

.... If they were hung, the judge would have been notified and I think that would have been reported. We'd hear something like the judge told them to continue deliberating....
JMO

snipped for focus @Megnut
IN. rule, when jury advises judge its members are at an impasse.

"RULE 28. ASSISTING JURORS AT AN IMPASSE"
"If the jury advises the court that it has reached an impasse in its deliberations, the court may, but only in the presence of counsel, and, in a criminal case the parties, inquire of the jurors to determine whether and how the court and counsel can assist them in their deliberative process. After receiving the jurors' response, if any, the court, after consultation with counsel, may direct that further proceedings occur as appropriate."

ETA: Indiana Jury Rules

 

[Warwick7]

He really does seem like a chameleon. He looks different in every picture that's out there. No wonder it's been hard for everyone to pin him down.

M00 is THAT is exactly what he wanted to achieve...

 

[Boxer]

"even as he was brought back for trial?" what do you mean?

Rozzi: ‘Your Honor, the Defense rests’ - Carroll County Comet

Just three minutes after court was called to session Wednesday, attorney Brad Rozzi stood up and told the judge and jurors, “Your Honor, the Defense rests.” It was anticipated that Richard Allen’s attorneys would finish their case-in-chief Wednesday, but the early morning announcement surprised...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

"McLeland asked if Allen was eating paper and flushing it in the toilet at Cass County. Rozzi objected, but Gull overruled the objection, again stating McLeland had a right to the line of questioning on rebuttal.
He then asked Harshman if Allen had any other issues at Cass County.
Harshaman replied, “Yes, he’s made threats to staff.” "

 

[cherrybier]

They had no evidence to base their claims on.

They were barred from bringing in their chosen experts, I'll mention the bullet one as it's completely separate to any Odinist angle.

Moo.

 

[Warwick7]

@kithanleytv

#Delphi: today, jurors worked from 9am to 2:30 pm.

Allen and his attorneys were present from 10am to 1:45pm

The jury was looking at video evidence.

So far, they’ve deliberated for 14.5 hours over 2.5 days.



5:26 PM · Nov 9, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1855376442655396230

First they said it was 9 then they said it was going to be 10 then early this morning it was going to be 11:00, and now it's back to 9 and got done at 2:30. This is very very confusing.

 

[ClearAhead]

Original FBI poster. 5'4"

https://twitter.com/x/status/886993329312997376

That’s Libby’s height. Suspect is listed between 5’6” to 5’10”.

 

[INfisherman]

They were barred from bringing in their chosen experts, I'll mention the bullet one as it's completely separate to any Odinist angle.

Moo.

A metallurgist is not a ballistics expert. Should we allow a plumber to testify as a mental health expert?

MOO

 

[TTF14]

They were barred from bringing in their chosen experts, I'll mention the bullet one as it's completely separate to any Odinist angle.

Moo.

IMO, we can't say there was "no evidence" of xyz when they weren't even allowed to present any. I mean, technically it's true....there was no evidence...presented. And that's the point!

JMO IMO

 

[Boxer]

I’ve never seen evidence leaks before. Maybe the D should be happy they’re even standing in that courtroom allowed to try their case at all.

MOO

They were lucky, Gull offered them a civil way to retire from case to which they initially agreed, then they reversed themselves and took it to the Indiana Supreme Court. The ISC said that Gull should have used a formal process against them. So they remained on case because RA wants them.

 

[Salah11]

Which law specifically? Could you provide a link to the specific law/statute?

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

 

[cherrybier]

IMO, we can't say there was "no evidence" of xyz when they weren't even allowed to present any. I mean, technically it's true....there was no evidence...presented. And that's the point!

JMO IMO

Am glad you get it!

Moo.

 

[lonetraveler]

Jury dismissed for the day, anyone else coming around to the fact that we are looking at a hung jury?

I predicted a hung jury during the trial.

 

[Warwick7]

The Jury Instructions lists each of the elements which the Jury must consider in finding RA is guilty or not guilty of the four separate charges. It’s not as quick and simple as only one he-did-it vote. JMO

_Instructions of Court Pursuant to Criminal Rule and Jury Rule 20 of the Indiana Supreme Court of the State of Indiana.pdf

drive.google.com

If I'm not mistaken in the Read trial there was one juror that just wasn't convinced. After discussing it at length the jury reached unanimous "not guilty" agreement on second degree murder and leaving the scene.

With this trial there could be that one juror who just needs more research to make a decision.

 

[lonetraveler]

I read somewhere, perhaps on Websleuths during another trial, that a rule of thumb is one hour of deliberation per day of testimony (or trial, I'm not sure). It was 18 days, that's 18 hours of deliberation. Even if they were going 8 hours a day that's still 2 days. And they haven't been going anywhere near that.

Don't know about that, ie., the trial I served on was seven weeks long, deliberation and a verdict three and 1/2 hours.

 

[INfisherman]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

... a metallurgist studies metals of all sorts not just limited to a bullet. A metallurgist is not an expert involving guns or how they are fired or cycled. What a material is made of has zero to do with studying markings left on a bullet or the operation of a handgun.

Plumbers don’t study materials, unsure what that has to do with anything. Point was you want to have a witness come in as an expert, then bring one that is of that field, not one that has a limited knowledge of it (metals only).

It doesn’t matter anyway, the decision was made & if it’s wrong they have their chance to appeal it and any others.

MOO

 

[TTF14]

I really hope at least a few jurors took copious notes of every single timeframe/timestamp/timeline testified to. I hope they are cross referencing it all. Especially Cecil's findings, Eldredge's findings, and that health app data.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

MOO the extractor and ejector (metal) marks on a brass (metal) bullet is exactly metallurgy.

Does a metallurgist have the expertise to explain how a gun works when it is cycled or fired?

ETA ability/expertise