GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215

[photographer4]

It was reported in MM IIRC. Maybe JG didn't see it happen? We'll never know for sure what it was will we?

EDITED: thanks for letting me know.

 

[INfisherman]

I was trying to find the date FBI left the investigation, was it in 2022 or 2021? Do you know?

Dozens of agencies investigated the Delphi murders, and every contiguous police agency to Carroll County was involved. The FBI was no longer used in investigating in August 2021.

"Did you ask them to do anything when they left the scene?" Rozzi asked Carter.

McLeland requested a sidebar with the judge.

It was Carter's decision to ask the FBI to return, and he asked the FBI to return all of their investigative materials.

Jurors see 'explicit' videos of Richard Allen in prison | Day 14 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

 

[cherrybier]

It's hard to believe it's cost so much with such little actual investigation done.

Agree. What's a new trial going to cost, another couple of mil?

Moo.

 

[Warwick7]

I wonder what the families are thinking about the evidence presented in the trial.

If Libbys Grandma is anything to go by, placing her hands in her face, sobbing, and at one point iirc running out of the room, it is apparent they are shocked, angered, hurt, devastated....and I imagine exhausted. M00

 

[MassGuy]

It's hard to believe it's cost so much with such little actual investigation done.

Huh? This was a massive, sprawling investigation involving numerous agencies, that took years. Countless people were interviewed, and some really good looking potential suspects were investigated and eliminated.

Then they of course found that needle in a haystack, one that shouldn’t have been there in the first place.

 

[Boxer]

Its more evidence than usual.
The timeline without any other evidence clinches reasonable doubt.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

If Libbys Grandma is anything to go by, placing her hands in her face, sobbing, and at one point iirc running out of the room, it is apparent they are shocked, angered, hurt, devastated....and I imagine exhausted. M00

Yes, and that’s completely understandable. What I wonder is do they think the Prosecution proved BARD that RA is the killer? Or do they think the Defense raised a reasonable doubt.

 

[Megnut]

If there's little evidence to convict RA (as some say), what evidence is there that someone or some ones commit these crimes?

Somebody else that RA didn't see, dressed like him, arriving and leaving at the same time? Driving a black car with identifying rims? With a propensity for chambering a cartridge and leaving one behind? With access to a bladed tool that would leave injuries hard to identify?

[I recall, when a document came out with redactions, trying to determine the word that followed bladed iirc. Too short to be knife. I don't recall now if anyone then guessed tool, but it sure fits with an unknown item which in turns fits with a boxcutter.]

DNA would be great. But it's not just RA's DNA that wasn't there, there wasn't any foreign DNA (just the hair that belonged to a female relative of Libby's and 3 of 72 hairs, without root, inconsistent with Abby and Libby, but not likely to yield helpful results -- we don't even know from where those hairs were recovered which may have had bearing on their investigative value). In any event, there just wasn't a ton of forensic evidence linking RA, but seeing as LE had five years to exhaust other avenues, I daresay there was even less to link anyone besides RA to the crime, try as though LE did.

And speculation isn't enough. Hence, the judge's rulings.

Besides, there is a walllllll of evidence implicating RA, despite no DNA, despite evidence lost to time.

The absence of his phone at a time he said he was using it. His self report. The timing. The gun. The bullet. The explanation for why there wasn't evidence of DNA-heavy SA, the outfit. The familiarity with and collecting of boxcutters.

Plus evidence as supplied by witnesses. The juveniles, BB, SC, AW, LG.

RA had the means, the method and the motive -- and he put himself there. Yes, we wish for more evidence always, but LE couldn't ignore the evidence they did have. And with it, they couldn't put anyone else ON the bridge and they couldn't get RA off of it.

The right man is being tried.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Carter testified it was Aug, 2021 IIRC.

ETA let me find a link to make sure.

So right after the FBI was dismissed from the investigation, the “missing link” was found. IMO

 

[Megnut]

Thinking about the jury and the task they've been commissioned for.

I would imagine it's hard for jurors to reconcile that RA whom they see in the courtroom every day is the same man recorded in custody acting out and yet they know it's the same man. A certain incongruity. Exhibiting extreme behavior. So extreme that staff has to employ extreme safety measures, for his safety and their own. And how are those two people the same one person?

Who's to say he wasn't just-this-side of psychotic that day? Walked among us but could flip on a dime.... might be a glimpse into RA's psycho. He might be always one wind short of fully unwound. A fatalist.

JMO

 

[Warwick7]

So right after the FBI was dismissed from the investigation, the “missing link” was found. IMO

M00 Didn't the OP say 1/2 a year later? That is not right after....

 

[INfisherman]

What “risk”??? To create “doubt” in a jury’s mind or to ensure a defendant doesn’t go free? IMO

None of the above. The risk of compromising or destroying evidence when performing the tests.

The state sent a set of hairs to the FBI. The FBI identified three hairs not consistent with either girl. No additional testing was performed at that point—Bozinovski said it was because she hoped newer technology down the road would provide answers. Given that analysis often destroys or compromises the original material, the lab decided to delay further testing.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-states-dna-expert-takes-the-stand/

 

[Deleted member 229974]

M00 Didn't the OP say 1/2 a year later? That is not right after....

Oh I’m sorry, I guess I misread.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

None of the above. The risk of compromising or destroying evidence when performing the tests.

The state sent a set of hairs to the FBI. The FBI identified three hairs not consistent with either girl. No additional testing was performed at that point—Bozinovski said it was because she hoped newer technology down the road would provide answers. Given that analysis often destroys or compromises the original material, the lab decided to delay further testing.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-states-dna-expert-takes-the-stand/

But what good is “evidence” if you don’t use it?

 

[cherrybier]

If there's little evidence to convict RA (as some say), what evidence is there that someone or some ones commit these crimes?

Somebody else that RA didn't see, dressed like him, arriving and leaving at the same time? Driving a black car with identifying rims? With a propensity for chambering a cartridge and leaving one behind? With access to a bladed tool that would leave injuries hard to identify?

[I recall, when a document came out with redactions, trying to determine the word that followed bladed iirc. Too short to be knife. I don't recall now if anyone then guessed tool, but it sure fits with an unknown item which in turns fits with a boxcutter.]

DNA would be great. But it's not just RA's DNA that wasn't there, there wasn't any foreign DNA (just the hair that belonged to a female relative of Libby's and 3 of 72 hairs, without root, inconsistent with Abby and Libby, but not likely to yield helpful results -- we don't even know from where those hairs were recovered which may have had bearing on their investigative value). In any event, there just wasn't a ton of forensic evidence linking RA, but seeing as LE had five years to exhaust other avenues, I daresay there was even less to link anyone besides RA to the crime, try as though LE did.

And speculation isn't enough. Hence, the judge's rulings.

Besides, there is a walllllll of evidence implicating RA, despite no DNA, despite evidence lost to time.

The absence of his phone at a time he said he was using it. His self report. The timing. The gun. The bullet. The explanation for why there wasn't evidence of DNA-heavy SA, the outfit. The familiarity with and collecting of boxcutters.

Plus evidence as supplied by witnesses. The juveniles, BB, SC, AW, LG.

RA had the means, the method and the motive -- and he put himself there. Yes, we wish for more evidence always, but LE couldn't ignore the evidence they did have. And with it, they couldn't put anyone else ON the bridge and they couldn't get RA off of it.

The right man is being tried.

JMO

Bbm.

What was the motive?

I didn't hear the Pros outline a motive unless I missed it?

 

[BUF]

I would imagine it's hard for jurors to reconcile that RA whom they see in the courtroom every day is the same man recorded in custody acting out and yet they know it's the same man. A certain incongruity. Exhibiting extreme behavior. So extreme that staff has to employ extreme safety measures, for his safety and their own. And how are those two people the same one person?

Which imo was the reason the jury wanted to see that interrogation tape again before he was arrested….to see his demeanor, how he answered questions, and to hear his voice.

 

[sunshineray]

Not what anyone thinks….it was up to the jurors whether they wanted him there or not as per JG’s instructions, which the link has been posted several times on these threads.

Yes I've been told since that was the case. Thanks

 

[otto]

Thinking about the jury and the task they've been commissioned for.

I would imagine it's hard for jurors to reconcile that RA whom they see in the courtroom every day is the same man recorded in custody acting out and yet they know it's the same man. A certain incongruity. Exhibiting extreme behavior. So extreme that staff has to employ extreme safety measures, for his safety and their own. And how are those two people the same one person?

Who's to say he wasn't just-this-side of psychotic that day? Walked among us but could flip on a dime.... might be a glimpse into RA's psycho. He might be always one wind short of fully unwound. A fatalist.

JMO

Richard Allen's alleged psychotic breaks involve eating feces, drinking from the toilet, stripping naked, and other rather questionable behaviour.

The man that kidnapped and murdered the teenage girls came prepared with extra clothing, a gun, and a box cutter (or other sharp edged weapon). He backed his vehicle into an isolated spot. He lay in wait for a victim, cornered the victims at the end of the bridge, then told the girls to go down the hill. He assaulted them by forcing them to get undressed. He panicked when a white van drove by, and quickly moved the kidnapped girls to a more isolated location near the ravine. After the murders, he very likely changed clothes, or bagged up some clothes, next to the trunk of his car (which was obscured due to being backed into a spot).

That is far too organized to be the acts of a psychotic man (per demonstrated alleged psychosis of RA on video).

The question that the jury has to decide is whether the man who kidnapped the girls is Richard Allen. I think the timeline, clothing description, and early admission that he was on the bridge at the time that the girls were on the bridge should bring the correct verdict.

My only concern relates to all those intelligent, informed questions from the jury about DNA, ballistics, etc. If one or more jurors believe themselves to be experts in the area, they may rely on their opinion rather than evidence presented in court. That could result in jury conflict. I suppose we'll know the answer to that question soon enough.

 

[sunshineray]

The jury are not deliberating inside the courtroom. They only go in there to re-review evidence.

The accused has a right to see what evidence is presented against him, even if it’s being presented for the second time, so he absolutely has a right to be there, and to have legal representation present.

He's seen it all already, throughout the trial. As I've said before, I don't agree anyone, defense or prosecution should have the right to insert themselves in the jury's deliberations. Reviewing evidence included. JMO I've since been told the jury asked for RA to be there.

 

[Salah11]

I wonder why the jury would want RA there while they review footage?

Seems unusual in my book