GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215

[AugustWest]

I'm confused, who is everyone and when did they get sent home by Carter? The FBI were still very involved in the 2019 Press Conference and even after that. Are you speaking of the Rushville 3, specifically Todd Click who was arrested recently for lying on an unrelated matter?

At some point, it's not unusual the FBI will scale back or even remove assistance if there isn't any movement in the case.

JMO

The dozens of agencies DC testified to. I don't know if he told the DHomeland, U.S. marshals or ATF to do so, but apparently he did the FBI.

Carter told the court that “dozens” of agencies were involved in the investigation, including federal resources like the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Marshals Service and ATF.

He said the FBI was involved until 2021. This led to a sidebar involving Judge Gull and counsel. Carter later testified that he made the decision for the FBI to leave the case and turn over all materials in August 2021.

He was on the stand for less than 10 minutes.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-jurors-react-to-video-of-richard-allen-in-custody/

 

[sunshineray]

Maybe he made them hate him? Or maybe they love him now? Not sure what other influence there could be??

Makes no difference, either would be influence during deliberations.

 

[AugustWest]

What were the reasons behind him doing that?

How would I know? Carter would be the one to ask.

 

[mrjitty]

You continuously refer to this as a conspiracy while failing to mention that it was the FBI who first put forth the notion that some third party perpetrator(s) attached to some religious faction may have perpetrated the crime.

The defense didn't pull that theory from thin air.

the defence misrepresented the FBI BAU report though didn’t they?

and the rope and the blood and prof Turco etc etc.

I’d have no problem if they’d accurately represented what FBI BAU had concluded. Instead they lied about Prof Turcos conclusions and wrote fanfic about the girls blood being drained

MOO

 

[INfisherman]

My opinion or local law enforcements' opinion? My opinion is that local law enforcement should use every resource available to them for as long as the investigation is ongoing. Carter disagreed.

I wouldn’t ask you to speak to LE opinion - but Carter sent them packing, after 4 1/2 years, roughly 6 months before the interview was found by the volunteer. Just wanted to clarify that Carter didn’t send the FBI packing weeks or months after the murders, as could be construed by others reading.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

How would I know? Carter would be the one to ask.

Then I guess it's something best left for after trial when the gag order is lifted. MO

 

[mrjitty]

No they didn't pull it from thin air, but those people were ruled out. The reason it would be a conspiracy now is because the idea they are in fact involved and the "real killers" would mean that LE just disregarded knowing they are connected and then pursued RA in order to let these Odinist go. That is where a conspiracy comes in. It isn't the fact that this was an angle that LE looked into at the beginning of this investigation. They looked into MANY people and theories. Those were ruled out and they moved on. Now the defense claiming that those people really did it and LE covered it up along with prison guards, prosecutors, the judge, etc. THAT would take a conspiracy.

IMO

I am still waiting for anyone to reconcile how they could be claiming the phone was switched on at 4.30am with headphone theory.

these are mutually incompatible theories.

Yet somehow none of the defence surrogates have commented on this complete U-turn. The jury does not know it but we do!

They were obviously lying about this because they’ve had the discovery all along. they knew for instance that Libby’s phone had to be on to receive Grandmas text. The phone was never off, there is no second location. The defence knew that all along.

It’s a hoax.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

The judge's instructions said it's the jury's choice whether to have him brought to the court.

I know RA has to be in Court while jury deliberations are happening (possible verdict), but I haven't seen anything that says RA will be in the actual Courtroom while the jurors are there reviewing evidence. Maybe he and R&B are legally entitled to be present, IDK.

Does anyone have a link to the Judge's Jury Instructions? Thanks

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

I could do it easily enough from memory

RSBM

Do you have a link for that please?

ETA only kidding, for clarity - some levity for Sunday!

 

[AugustWest]

the defence misrepresented the FBI BAU report though didn’t they?

and the rope and the blood and prof Turco etc etc.

I’d have no problem if they’d accurately represented what FBI BAU had concluded. Instead they lied about Prof Turcos conclusions and wrote fanfic about the girls blood being drained

MOO

You and I just differ in our understanding of the law. I feel the defense should be able to question the narrative put forth by the prosecution. As the prosecution should be able to question the narrative of the defense. Why should one trust the opinion of the investigators that the girls' blood wasn't drained, for instance? Trust me bro? The best way to find out Turco's opinion? Put him on the stand. Best way to find out what the FBI's conclusions are? Put a representative on the stand.

In an adversarial system, I don't expect every theory each side throws out to be 100% truth. It is somewhere in the middle more often than not.

ETA: we don't have to agree, but calling everyone a conspiracist that doesn't agree with a particular theory is not constructive in my opinion.

 

[Notthisshipsister]

I wish we knew exactly what the police said back to him after he said that if that pic was on the girls' phone, then it wasn't him. Maybe we do know, IDK. But seems to me they should've said something back to him about this being a pic of him in the background, not necessarily a pic they took of him specifically on purpose. Why would he need to vehemently deny that he was in this pic, even if it came from their phone? He shouldn't have immediately thought this was incriminating.

You can see he has his head down in the pic, concentrating (or pretending to concentrate) on the rickety planks of the bridge he was walking on. So he wouldn't necessarily have seen 2 girls ahead of him taking selfies etc. (or it was something he could've plausibly denied.)

Nothing wrong with that being a pic of him, even if it came from their phone, if he was just caught in the background of their pic. (I realize they were actually trying to surreptitiously video this creepy guy they thought might be following them, but that didn't necessarily have to be the case, and the cops could've sold it to him as it just being a shot of him they happened to catch in the background of one of the photos they took of themselves on the bridge that day.)

Him denying that it could be him in the pic if it came off their phone, when there's innocent explanation of that, looks guilty to me.

He also kept saying that it couldn't be him because he never met them! ("I never met those girls.") But why didn't the cops say it didn't matter if he ever met them or not? No one's saying he did. He wouldn't have to have met them for them to have found this photo of him on their phone. It doesn't look like a photo of someone they had ever met. If they'd met him and had a photo of him, it would probably be a posed photo of him smiling at the camera, maybe with one or both of the girls in the pic next to him, like you would do if you met some guy and wanted to take a pic of him shortly after. There's no reason for him to say he never met these girls. No one said he did, as in them ever having been introduced to each other or just stopping to make small talk as they passed each other while walking or anything like that. If he had met them and they had a pic of him on their phone, it would be an entirely different kind of pic, not one that looks like he's just someone they caught in the background of a pic they took of themselves.

That should look like just an innocent pic of him in the background which he should not have any reason to deny as he did. He didn't at the time know the police had more to this pic, which was just a still shot of the video in which police say his voice is heard ordering them to go down the hill, where they were later found killed. He didn't yet know anything about all that, but he still had to deny there was any way that could be him if it came off their phone. Incriminating.

I feel like the cops should've pressed him on this aspect.

I agree. I often wonder what the answer would be as to why it "couldn't" be him. Perhaps LE asked why not, and his reply was plausible to them, or perhaps they didn't press it.
I've filled in my own replies to his sentence, adding "because...".
MOO-- "because I didn't see they had a phone"... "because I asked for their phones and they said they didn't have one"... "because I checked their pockets and didn't find a phone". I do wish we knew the answer to this one but I think it's probably one of those things we'll never know.

 

[INfisherman]

Well we know what he is not doing...because he said he would never do that again...

If I were to guess, that’s all just part of some smear campaign.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

The dozens of agencies DC testified to. I don't know if he told the DHomeland, U.S. marshals or ATF to do so, but apparently he did the FBI.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-jurors-react-to-video-of-richard-allen-in-custody/

And what does ISP Cater doing that establish as evidence?

 

[AugustWest]

And what does ISP Cater doing that establish as evidence?

That he sent the FBI home because he didn't feel Indiana needed their assistance?

 

[mrjitty]

You and I just differ in our understanding of the law. I feel the defense should be able to question the narrative put forth by the prosecution. As the prosecution should be able to question the narrative of the defense. Why should one trust the opinion of the investigators that the girls' blood wasn't drained, for instance? Trust me bro? The best way to find out Turco's opinion? Put him on the stand. Best way to find out what the FBI's conclusions are? Put a representative on the stand.

In an adversarial system, I don't expect every theory each side throws out to be 100% truth. It is somewhere in the middle more often than not.

ETA: we don't have to agree, but calling everyone a conspiracist that doesn't agree with a particular theory is not constructive in my opinion.

ok but then why didn’t the defence put Turco on the stand?

The only reasonable conclusion is they did misrepresent his opinion in the Franks

I agree they can bring evidence of unlikely theories. But if they intentionally misrepresent the evidence in a motion and then don’t bring any relevant evidence it is fair to say they are creating conspiracies in my view.

moo

 

[sunshineray]

You and I just differ in our understanding of the law. I feel the defense should be able to question the narrative put forth by the prosecution. As the prosecution should be able to question the narrative of the defense. Why should one trust the opinion of the investigators that the girls' blood wasn't drained, for instance? Trust me bro? The best way to find out Turco's opinion? Put him on the stand. Best way to find out what the FBI's conclusions are? Put a representative on the stand.

In an adversarial system, I don't expect every theory each side throws out to be 100% truth. It is somewhere in the middle more often than not.

ETA: we don't have to agree, but calling everyone a conspiracist that doesn't agree with a particular theory is not constructive in my opinion.

Wouldn't the victim being hung up and their blood drained be something that the patholgist's report would have noted? The defense had that report in discovery, right? So fan fiction on that claim seems a logical assumption, playing to the SM masses, not stating anything factual or logical concerning that in their Franks filing. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

That he sent the FBI home because he didn't feel Indiana needed their assistance?

I would agree to, that Indiana didn't need their assistance any longer.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The dozens of agencies DC testified to. I don't know if he told the DHomeland, U.S. marshals or ATF to do so, but apparently he did the FBI.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-jurors-react-to-video-of-richard-allen-in-custody/

It's encouraging to see that DC called in other resources I forgot about Homeland, US Marshalls, ATF. I think they might have even used NASA resources. This shows me they were willing and did look to others for help and direction.

The fact that Carter asked the FBI to leave in 2021 isn't surprising. They had worked jointly on the case since 2017 and there wasn't any forward movement. I do believe they might have had differing opinions by the end of that time, but the FBI did not have jurisdiction of the investigation. After 4 1/2 years it could have simply been we're moving on. That was also during COVID times as well.

If the FBI couldn't help progress it forward after all that time, I don't think it was going to happen under any circumstances until the misfiled tip was found. Tragic, infuriating, unbelievable and heartbreaking absolutely yes, but a human error not a conspiracy IMO.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

What’s the law in Indiana on the prosecution including unfairly prejudicial evidence about an accused’s character/behaviour / actions?

I know we saw the Google searches , which I thought were a nothing burger . But if , for example, RA had watched involving the rape of minors in circumstances similar to this crime, would that be admissible or not ?

Personally, I’d find it difficult to convict RA based on the evidence at trial. Perhaps I’m being naive , but part of me can’t get my head around how many things the police didn’t properly chase down (eg not checking how many cars like RA’s were registered in Carroll county until during the trial ). This case had huge attention on it from the beginning, so you’d think that the police would have been assiduous in chasing down all details .

I have wondered whether there is some other evidence which the police have (not presented at trial ) which makes RA’s guilt beyond doubt. If there is and they thought that would be presented at trial , I can see how some police would think they didn’t need to chase down all these other details which have come up in the case .

Or maybe not, and the investigation was just your run of the mill substandard investigation carried out by a force without much experience of these types of crimes.

 

[photographer4]

And to boot, they had a couple youtubers sitting in the defense seats and one note that we know of (probably more, IMO) was passed from defense to said youtuber during trial. Violation of gag order?

For all we know, someone passed the youtuber a coffee order... I'm sure if JG had any issues with the D passing a note to a member of the gallery she'd have made it infinitely clear. <modsnip>. I don't think it actually matters. Moo.