GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #216

[k-mac]

MOO

My heart! So very, very sorry the families have to hear this. The torture they must be going through hearing those words from these girls. How does one ever get over this lifetime of pain?

It breaks me up even trying to imagine, the families are the ones that have been tortured.

Yes, it was THE DAY

Yes this is so impactful 24/7 365 forever on these peoples lives.

The cruelty of the unsubstantiated nonsense about family members, absolutely despicable.
I hope when the gag order is lifted and sentencing is over, The Germans SUE ALL of these bullying liars and malingering trouble makers.
Maybe some lawyers with dignity will step up pro bono and help them shut all that garbage down.
They have endured enough xx

moo

 

[acutename]

Seems to me the attorneys and the families were expected inside the courtroom in advance of others and one of the defense attorney's and RA's family remained somewhere downstairs in the courthouse, and somebody had to go collect them when their absence prevented the Court from bringing in the jury. No doubt this frosted Judge Gull! Reportedly, once all were seated, delivering the verdict took less than 3 minutes.

does she mean they will appeal or does she mean that she will spend the 45-65 yrs (sic) supporting RA and trying to get early release?

 

[Han]

Whatever the girl’s families decide to do I hope they will receive support from members here perhaps not financial but in spirit. No one should have to endure what they have but in the process they have provided anyone observing them inspiration for a well-lived life. Never would have imagined in the beginning how far this journey would take us all. It’s a good day each day now that it IS over.

 

[shonyakay]

MOO

My heart! So very, very sorry the families have to hear this. The torture they must be going through hearing those words from these girls. How does one ever get over this lifetime of pain?

It breaks me up even trying to imagine, the families are the ones that have been tortured.

Yes, it was THE DAY

So very true. The Day indeed.

I do remember that the families were allowed to listen to this audio, from Libby's phone, months after the murders' occurred. This is how Gray Hughes knew the gist of the contents via one of the girls' family members.

 

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[shonyakay]

MOO

My heart! So very, very sorry the families have to hear this. The torture they must be going through hearing those words from these girls. How does one ever get over this lifetime of pain?

It breaks me up even trying to imagine, the families are the ones that have been tortured.

Yes, it was THE DAY

When the video was played in court, some people remarked about how young the girls' sounded. They were barely teenagers afterall. Their whole lives ripped away from them and those who loved them.

 

[shonyakay]

Whatever the girl’s families decide to do I hope they will receive support from members here perhaps not financial but in spirit. No one should have to endure what they have but in the process they have provided anyone observing them inspiration for a well-lived life. Never would have imagined in the beginning how far this journey would take us all. It’s a good day each day now that it IS over.

One way to show support is to keep delivering the truth in spite of all of the misinformation out there.

<modsnip: Discussion of fund raising is not allowed>

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey folks,

The Due Process Gang is not an approved source and is off limits in this discussion.

 

[snooptroop88]

Prediction in anticipation of the oddly timed holiday sentencing: Now that a lifetime in prison is RA's reality, the "fragile egg" will make tremendous strides in terms of his mental health. I'm wondering about his future willingness to voluntarily give information about his crimes.

When does the gag order lift in the Delphi murders trial?

Richard Allen has been found guilty of murder in the deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German. Here's what comes next for him and the case.

www.wthr.com

There's a situation right now in Indiana involving Joseph Corcoran on Indiana Death Row. He was acquitted of murdering his parents; he went on (in a separate mass murder event) to kill his brother, his sister's fiance, and two of the brother's friends. Corcoran is diagnosed as a seriously ill paranoid schizophrenic and from what I can see, nobody implied at any point he was malingering. He has actually passed tests showing he was not malingering. But he is scheduled to be executed two days before Richard Allen is sentenced. If the execution actually occurs, it will be the first done in Indiana since 2009.

Indiana death row inmate's lawyers say mental illness should preclude him from execution • Indiana Capital Chronicle

Death row inmate Joseph Corcoran's lawyers have appealed the state’s request for an execution date, pointing to his mental illness.

indianacapitalchronicle.com

JMO, RA should count himself lucky he escaped such a fate. I don't think RA "snapped." Someone who "snaps" doesn't turn down lunch with Mom, go home, arm himself to the teeth, make sure his appearance is concealed, stalk two young girls on a trail and murder them in cold blood. And then go trotting over to the Save-a-Lot to try to cover his tracks. Again, moo. Seeing RA can get 45 years (concurrent) and up to 130 yrs (consecutive). (Just noting, sources differ on the figures but it seems to be a consensus that the highest would be 130.) I hope it's consecutive because this monster created a literal nightmare for countless people, and it will never really end.

 

[BexLuth0r]

Some of you have mentioned it but now the trial is over, all I feel is just overwhelming sadness for what these two girls and their families had to go through. 7 years of fighting and now what is next for them?
They still don't have their babies. Those girls still haven't lived their life beyond the ages of 13 and 14.
Life just isn't fair. I hope delphi and the families can now start to heal. Whatever that looks like for them.

 

[mrjitty]

@m00c0w and ors

I am still going down the geofence rabbit hole, because I think newcomer Law Tubers have misrepresented this issue, which will become clear on appeal.

In my opinion, Judge Gull's order following the motion in limine hearing needs to be read in context of Franks III, the state's motion in limine, and the 3 day hearing. On direct appeal, the defence is constrained to this record. Also the order is bland and just restates what the law is anyway.

IMO the record shows the D arguing about 3 phones on a geofence map. And the D knows who these phones belong to. And IMO they called at least one of these witnesses at trial.

So does anyone know of anything else the D raised on the record? Strangely, I never found anything about Geofence that came up at the 3 day hearing, but i could have missed it? And IMO they did not show proof at trial or try to admit it either.

My angle here, is that the geofence is a red herring. Two of the phones IMO, belong to the boyfriend and girlfriend out for a walk, and the girlfriend testified they saw nothing. So this 'geofence' evidence doesn't add anything for the jury. The D knows who the 3 witnesses are and could call them. The D would obviously not be able to claim they were the killers, or that they were at the crime scene.

It is actually strange to me that the D did not call agent Horan at the 3 day hearing, so I can only conclude he wasn't actually useful to them?

Thoughts appreciated!

Judge Gull's Geofence Ruling

9. Any reference to geofencing and/or any testimony from Kevin Horan about geofencing or the findings from any geofence search that is not relevant or is for the purpose of confusing the issues or has the potential to mislead the jury in violation of Rule 401. IRE 401. Burden is on the opponent to show why it is relevant. Mullins v. State, 646 N.E.2d 40 (Ind. 1995). Relevant evidence may be excluded if its probative value is substantially outweighed by its prejudicial effect. Rolston v. State, 81 N.E.3d 1097 (Ind. Ct. App. 2017). Evidence may be excluded if it confuses the issues. Lee v. Hamilton, 841 N.E.2d 223 (Ind. Ct. App. 2006)

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I guess the tldr version of what I am saying is the defence didn't call any expert to show why the geofence map should be admissible at trial, or what testimony about it should be allowed.

Is the reason tactical? In other words, the existence of the young couple on the bridge with phones in the geofence serves to highlight that RA's phone isn't there but should be?

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Some of you have mentioned it but now the trial is over, all I feel is just overwhelming sadness for what these two girls and their families had to go through. 7 years of fighting and now what is next for them?
They still don't have their babies. Those girls still haven't lived their life beyond the ages of 13 and 14.
Life just isn't fair. I hope delphi and the families can now start to heal. Whatever that looks like for them.

My feeling after all these cases is we need to confront the truth about what kind of man does these killings instead of indulging in conspiracies.

 

[Sillybilly]

I guess the tldr version of what I am saying is the defence didn't call any expert to show why the geofence map should be admissible at trial, or what testimony about it should be allowed.

Is the reason tactical? In other words, the existence of the young couple on the bridge with phones in the geofence serves to highlight that RA's phone isn't there but should be?

MOO

It's possible RA's phone had location services off.

from: Does geofencing work if location is off?.

If your location services are turned off, geofencing will not work. Geofencing relies on GPS or other location services to function, so if these services are not active, the geofence will not be able to track your location. You can turn your location services back on by going to your phone's settings and enabling them.

By RA's own admission he was there and witnesses place him there. With witness' phones tracked but not his, IMO that could indicate that he turned location services off. Possibly considered suspicious in itself and considered not useful to the defence.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

FWIW from 2mins approx - just 10 mins

Like many other attorney commentators, he reinforces that the confessions are super hard to overcome

 

[Tortoise]

It's clear to me that from all those recorded phone confessions his wife and his mother had no clue where he was at the time of the murders or what he was doing. Not once did they say to him you told me you were here or doing xyz. Let's get your phone records to prove it, blah blah. In fact his wife doesn't even say that in the 2022 interviews, she questions him.

He never once retracts his confessions on a recorded call either, or says he didn't know what he was saying during that period.

 

[Salah11]

It's clear to me that from all those recorded phone confessions his wife and his mother had no clue where he was at the time of the murders or what he was doing. Not once did they say to him you told me you were here or doing xyz. Let's get your phone records to prove it, blah blah. In fact his wife doesn't even say that in the 2022 interviews, she questions him.

He never once retracts his confessions on a recorded call either, or says he didn't know what he was saying during that period.

Very true

 

[Boxer]

does she mean they will appeal or does she mean that she will spend the 45-65 yrs (sic) supporting RA and trying to get early release?

Appeal.

 

[Salah11]

Appeal.

It seems she is equally as dependent on him than he is her. All very unhealthy when you considering what he has done.

Moo

 

[Inthedetails]

My feeling after all these cases is we need to confront the truth about what kind of man does these killings instead of indulging in conspiracies.

Amen.

Sadly, I see the indulgencing in conspiracies to become the norm, especially as more people flock to youtubers for "the truth." Conspiracies are money-makers for content creators, with a big price tag for the rest of us of undermining faith in systems that actually do work.

jmo