GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218

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Hello,
The GH video can be found here
Head to 2 hrs 13 mins for his 'rumour' about the confession / white van. He was in contact in Wala. JMO.
Thanks for posting the link. Who is behind the "might be a decent rumor" from at least 9 months ago? Gotta give him credit... it was a very decent rumor; almost like the person had actual knowledge.

From the transcript:
2:12:47 mm
Allen is at the he he confessed to different Witnesses one of them was a
psychologist and I don't
know know so yeah and the thing is is this is just a rumor okay this is a
rumor you know might be a decent rumor but it's a rumor nevertheless okay so
what if you know Richard Allen at the crime scene when he told one of his
psychologists that maybe he saw something specific while he was at the crime scene
and why he sped things along and ran away for example what if you saw
maybe uh K Weber's son driving home in his van and told the psychologist that
exact thing and it shown that his van did show up exactly at that time
wouldn't that be interesting would that be an interesting thing yeah what if he said while he was
at the crime scene he saw the van and he got nervous and he killed him and he ran away and it happens to be K Weber's son
perhaps would wouldn't that be crazy yeah wouldn't that be absolutely
nuts if he actually had a specific fact that nobody else would really even know that he was telling the
psychologists H I think that'd be kind of interesting wouldn't it
 
I don't know why the D did some things; BR admitted during one of his interviews that they made mistakes. It's likely that some important bits of discovery weren't found in time.
Look at how long it took KS to find the RA tip.

IMO, they didn't pull that "fixing ATMs" out of the air so it must have come up in an earlier interview. Is that what he told the FBI and that's why Nick objected and Gull denied the request for a remote hearing?

I speculate they brought that subpoena to court because they had problems serving him in the past.
I speculate they did the subpoena in court for effect and affect. MO
 
Hey, I appreciate the courtesy of linking an article that included an expert's opinion of a photograph of mud on a shoe.

I'm interested to learn by what method the forensics conclusively differentiated creek silt from wet soil silt adjacent to the creek.

Alas, the reporting on the exhibits and forensics of this trial has been lacking, understandably IMO. The press had many challenges due to the closed trial and forbidden recordings and cameras, etc..

IMO, the possibility of a north bridge end abduction remains ...
Does that change anything? No.
It's early in the process to think about another theory materializing ... yet there I go.

Waiting on (for public access to trial transcript and exhibits that can be released ... to be released) is frustrating. Call me impatient and nerdy-needy for details.

Thank you again for the link!

JMHO
BBM

Because they’re totally technically different.

Soils have different compositions and properties with specific classifications determined through analysis of those qualities.

Information about mechanical analysis of soils:

Soil Texture | Soils - Part 2: Physical Properties of Soil and Soil Water - passel


Gardening sites have easy to understand information about soils:

>>>
Silt is defined by its particle size. At a diameter between .002 and .05 mm, silt falls into the second smallest grain size in the particle grade scale, with clay being the smallest and boulders the largest.

[Goes on to describe properties to identify silt]




>>>
Silt is a medium size particle ranging from 0.002 mm to 0.05 mm in diameter. We most commonly find silt at the bottom of stream beds and river banks. Silt is smaller than sand but larger than clay.
>>>

The pure silt found on river bottoms and in wetlands is composed of 80-100% silt particles.
>>>
Loam has an almost even blend of sand, silt, and clay particles, plus significant amounts of organic matter.
>>>
Loams occur naturally in humus-rich topsoil of grasslands, including much of the Midwestern USA.



All imo
 
Has anyone asked Gibson why he didn't show after recieving 5k the night before to show?
He appears to be a real attorney with real clients and court cases. Maybe he had court things to do the next day. He wouldn't have had much time to rearrange his schedule.

IMO I don't think it's mandatory for an atty to be at the first hearing. I believe that's the one where an arrestee gets the option of hiring their own or asking for a PD.

What I do think is improper is that they chose to move RA to White Co. jail without following procedure.
 
Right.

I think Vern has taken one for the team and revealed the shell game here.

The arraignment is a proceeding in open court. It wasn't secret. RA was represented at it by a public defender. Of course! Things that happen every day in America.

He saw private counsel the night before. Counsel was aware of arraignment the next day. Nothing prevented counsel from turning up and entering an appearance. It is not the job of the prosecutor to tell counsel to turn up. It is not the job of the court to get Gibson to turn up.

RA was represented at the hearing. Gibson still did not file into the case.

Where is the affidavit from Gibson complaining that he was prevented from appearing on the 28th?

As Vern points out, even if Gibson really was RAs counsel - for both the arraignment and the safekeeping, how is it the fault of the state they he decided not to present front and centre?

Remember that for any of this to matter, the D needs the lack of counsel at the safekeeper to be a critical issue. So how was the Judge to know this? But should there have been a public defender?

IMO Gibson is likely a red herring. The idea that the state and court would intentionally conspire to have the accused not represented in a hearing is wild to me - something that could obviously lead to the collapse of the case.

There does remain, IMO, the question of whether a public defender ought to have represented RA for the safekeeper - but i do not know if you actually have to have a defended hearing for these.

The real giveaway, IMO, is that they waited nearly 2 years to file this.
FYI: in the U.S., private or sealed arraignments are arranged for high-risk defendants under certain circumstances. It's true that arraignments are typically public proceedings, courts may hold them privately or under seal when specific concerns justify limiting public access.

Ostensibly, for RA's own safety, RA was held under an alias in Carroll Cty Jail after his arrest; RA was then transferred to White County after his arraignment and before the safekeeping order transferred him to solitary in Westville.

The Article linked below confirms on October 28th, the day of the arraignment, the public learned of an arrest and an AM arraignment had occurred in the Delphi case of an unidentified person.

Arrest made in Delphi murders of Libby German and Abby Williams, sources say
DELPHI — An arrest has been made in the investigation into the 2017 murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, sources tell WRTV. The name of the arrestee has not been confirmed, but sources say the individual appeared in court Friday morning.


Judge Diener recused himself from the RA case within days of RA's arraignment. Media reports indicate he feared for his family's safety due to the RA case. Article linked below.
Judge worried for family's safety after sealing court docs in Delphi murders recused from case
DELPHI, Ind. — Carroll County Judge Benjamin Diener has recused himself from the Delphi murders case.
In his order, Diener said he "has determined that the particular circumstances within the underlying case warrant recusal and dictate that a special judge be appointed in this case."
It is not clear what the circumstances are that the judge referenced, but in previous emails and court documents – he has cited safety concerns and that he and his staff have been overwhelmed by the public attention and requests for information.

The article below states that Gibson, known to the State to be RA's counsel at the time, was not notified of the private RA arraignment proceedings.

Allen was arrested on October 26, 2022 and was booked into Carroll County Jail under a false name.

According to court documents, Allen's wife hired an attorney after he was arrested. Allen's attorney was not present when he was charged with murder. Allen was then transferred to the White County Jail without a safekeeping order.

The defense argues that the transfer was wrong and Allen's right to legal representation was breached. They said his attorney wasn't notified about the proceedings.

IMO, There's zero evidence that RA had a public arraignment.

JMHO ... to speculate that a criminal attorney takes $5K one day and ops out of the arraignment the next day is quite a leap. The suggestion/speculation that Gibson chose not to attend the private arraignment is - oddly - supported by ... a deeper read of ... a credit card receipt exhibit?

IMO, the receipt exhibit seems mistaken for a legal billing of some sort. It is, in fact a Visa credit card receipt to Allen from Gibson for a $5K payment made 10/27. This Visa credit card receipt ... is neither a retainer agreement nor a legal service invoice; it's just a credit card receipt. Note there's even a credit card authorization code on it, and the last 4 digits of the credit card. The receipt supports Kathy Allen's affidavit; where she states this is the receipt for the $5K payment she paid on 10/27 to Gibson to retain his services.

the Exhibit 1A receipt here:

ALSO,
sbm - Kathy Affidavit exhibit to MTCE here:


Finally, the germain issue in the #1 Safekeeping argument in the MTCE focuses not on the arraignment, but the Court's exparte decision on the SAFEKEEPING procedure. Exparte here meaning a secret decision and order by the Court on the State's motion for RA's safekeeping that was never noticed or responded to by RA; Gibson also was never noticed. Note that the actual motion header (#1 below) does not mention the arraignment. (Source #1 of MTCE):
sbm - #1 Motion header regarding Safekeeping from the MTCE
2025_MTCE.pdf

1. In violation of the Sixth and Fourteenth Amendments, Mr. Allen was deprived
of counsel at the safekeeping “proceeding” of November 3, 2022; that
“proceeding” was a critical stage at which Mr. Allen was entitled to be
represented by counsel; and, under United States v. Cronic, 466 U.S. 648 (1984),
and its progeny, the Court must presume Mr. Allen was prejudiced by being
unrepresented during that proceeding.

The arraignment and safekeeping hearing occurred within the week of Diener's recusal. Did Diener's personal concerns warrant abandoning RA's rights to due process?

It's my opinion also that the D did not object to safekeeping immediately ... and that they could have/should have - JMHO. The D did raise this issue within a few months of RA's incarceration at Westville. That being said, and IMO, the D's failure to raise this issue more timely is not a factor in the Diener Court's errors/violations of RA's due process the week before he recused.

The D is arguing those Diener Court safekeeping error(s) are a poison tree therefore everything that enfolded as a result of that safekeeping decision ... is fruit of the poison tree.

JMHO
 
The GH video is interesting.

I note that the confessions had already occured before this video was made. Besides the speculation on a van interruption, there is also much other speculation as to the timeline. For example, at the 13m30s mark noting that was 'extremely windy that day' [13 Feb 2017], and wind was blowing from bridge towards the site were A&L were found deceased and that perhaps RA was interrupted by their voices (the girlfriend & boyfriend) being carried accross the creek.

So plenty of speculation going on in the video.

Interestingly, the timelines in the GH video are all still for 1530ish hours/3:30pm interruptions .. which, as we know now, was 58 minutes after the cell phone ceased all movement and a full 1 hour to 45 minutes (depending on an actual correct timing for the van surveillance video) after BW really returned home.

Thanks to testimony at the trial, we know that BW actually returned home approx 1430hrs (up to 1444hrs now I guess if the time is correct on the video), having been dismissed early from work that day and that he spent time working on his ATMs (which it is revealed is done remotely/online) and does not require his physical presence. That timeline was shocking for everyone at trial to hear ... and explains the evidence of the cell phone movement/change in elevation timings etc.

Only RA knew that proper timeline and what actually interrupted him around 1432hrs on 13 Feb 2017. None of us knew all the deets until the trial. Not even GH in his video.

IMO.
 
He appears to be a real attorney with real clients and court cases. Maybe he had court things to do the next day. He wouldn't have had much time to rearrange his schedule.

IMO I don't think it's mandatory for an atty to be at the first hearing. I believe that's the one where an arrestee gets the option of hiring their own or asking for a PD.

What I do think is improper is that they chose to move RA to White Co. jail without following procedure.

It was a private arraignment; first hearing in front of the Court; not on the public calendar. Gibson would need notice of the time/place of this private proceeding. Opposing counsel coordinate schedules for hearings w/ the Court. The motion suggests that coordination/courtesy to the defendant's counsel did not happen for the arraignment. JMHO
 
It was a private arraignment; first hearing in front of the Court; not on the public calendar. Gibson would need notice of the time/place of this private proceeding. Opposing counsel coordinate schedules for hearings w/ the Court. The motion suggests that coordination/courtesy to the defendant's counsel did not happen for the arraignment. JMHO
Thank you. I'm not familiar with private arraignments; I didn't even know they had such things.
 
RA has been tried and convicted.
They are not going to argue evidence again unless RA is granted a new trial on appeal, which is not going to happen because appeals involve application of law, not evidence, and the legal aspects of this case have, repeatedly, been described by lawyers and legal analysts that are not attached at the hip to the defense team, as being rock solid and unassailable.
Apparently, none of this new trash from the defense was important enough for them to bring up in trial. So why is it important now?
Apparently, none of the new trash warranted a court filing, pretrial and preconviction, which is astounding considering the other ridiculous topics and arguments that were actually filed by the defense.
There is no sound. There is no fury. It all signifies nothing.

Opinion
 
He appears to be a real attorney with real clients and court cases. Maybe he had court things to do the next day. He wouldn't have had much time to rearrange his schedule.

IMO I don't think it's mandatory for an atty to be at the first hearing. I believe that's the one where an arrestee gets the option of hiring their own or asking for a PD.

What I do think is improper is that they chose to move RA to White Co. jail without following procedure.
It was safer than Carroll County jail, that's for sure, considering the high profile of this case in that county. They were thinking about RA's safe keeping, it was needed. IMO.
 
I'm willing to wager, now that we've access to "the receipt" for his payment that is clearly identified as costs for "Pre-arrest Representation", that KA & RA reached out to Gibson for legal advice after RA's first interview with the police and search warrant execution. He sent them an invoice for it. KA paid it on the 27th. RA had been arrested on the 26th, so the payment is for services before that date. She most likely spoke to him again on the 26th or 27th about the arrest and, after she anted up their 5K payment for RA's pre-arrest services that had already been rendered, Gibson attended to Carroll County Jail and provided Ricky that last bit of advice to "keep his lips zipped" pro bono.

With a sleight of hand - just a fleeting glimpse - it does look like KA is paying a retainer to an attorney on the night of the 27th for Ricky,

BUT no lawyer - Defence or Prosecution - is going to itemize their invoice or receipt as "retainer fee" when it was, in fact, a payment for services that had already happened ("Pre-arrest Representation) as indicated on the receipt itself. IMO. Also interesting that when one looks at the email chain for the receipt (at link above), Gibson's subject line calls it a "Payment Receipt" as well and notes it is for "pre-trial representation" in the receipt body .... only the Defence Attornies are calling it a "Retainer" (verbally and in the name they choose to give this document). Not even Kathy calls it a "retainer" in her affadavit. Interesting indeed.

FWIW: That exhibit you've linked shows is a simple (Visa) credit card payment receipt via email; it is not the legal firm's invoice, not a retainer agreement, not a statement of legal services. IMO, the facts from the credit card receipt are "Kathy Allen paid Gibson 5 grand on Oct 27th via credit card; credit card receipt notes: "Representation of Richard Allen pre-arrest Carroll County"".
For emergent representation, full retainer agreement would be presented after payment. Billing against retainer and hourly detail would arrive with monthly billing statement. Normal stuff of the trade. JMHO

(Obviously, whoever made the receipt notation was unaware Allen had been arrested 10/26.) JMHO

Addressed further in this post:
GUILTY - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218
also JMHO
 
It's clear that the knowledge that RA had confessed to Wala and mentioned being startled by arrival of a van was 'out there' prior to the ruling granting access to his mental health records.

GH knew it and so did the Murder Sheet and probably many others. How did they accquire this knowledge? I have no idea really, MS just speak of 'social media rumours' but it's clear they knew. But what does it change?

Seems the confession to Wala was on 3 May 2023 (source), so if people want to debunk this information about the van being something 'only the killer would' know they should be looking for mentions of it prior to this date.

I don't consider it to be a particularly important piece of evidence against him personally.
 
So basically someone leaked it? Including possibly the defence?

But how does this help?

IMO
Yes, someone leaked that confession as we can see in the entire video that Rexluther posted. He heard that rumour and was speculating about it. Gray's video talking about it is from 30/03/2024, RA confessed in 2023 I think (I'm a bit lost in the timings).
 
FWIW: That exhibit you've linked shows is a simple (Visa) credit card payment receipt via email; it is not the legal firm's invoice, not a retainer agreement, not a statement of legal services. IMO, the facts from the credit card receipt are "Kathy Allen paid Gibson 5 grand on Oct 27th via credit card; credit card receipt notes: "Representation of Richard Allen pre-arrest Carroll County"".
For emergent representation, full retainer agreement would be presented after payment. Billing against retainer and hourly detail would arrive with monthly billing statement. Normal stuff of the trade. JMHO

(Obviously, whoever made the receipt notation was unaware Allen had been arrested 10/26.) JMHO

Addressed further in this post:
GUILTY - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218
also JMHO
With all that said it still holds true the defense hasn’t provided any proof that Gibson was in fact representing RA after the 27th. None. Respectfully, you mention others making leaps with one topic when you’re doing the same thing. Rozzi’s own questions in the emails he sent only apply to events on the 27th.

Nowhere in their filing or information provided does it answer the question was Gibson representing RA on the 28th.

Not that it matters anyway, because this motion will more than likely get swatted down with a laugh & the appellate attorneys get a bonus 45+ more days to prepare for their work.

MOO
 
It's clear that the knowledge that RA had confessed to Wala and mentioned being startled by arrival of a van was 'out there' prior to the ruling granting access to his mental health records.

GH knew it and so did the Murder Sheet and probably many others. How did they accquire this knowledge? I have no idea really, MS just speak of 'social media rumours' but it's clear they knew. But what does it change?

Seems the confession to Wala was on 3 May 2023 (source), so if people want to debunk this information about the van being something 'only the killer would' know they should be looking for mentions of it prior to this date.

I don't consider it to be a particularly important piece of evidence against him personally.
It changes nothing - for some it’s evidence of "tentacles" as some like to put it. It’s simply more meat in place of what’s actually a simple story.

JMO
 
FWIW: That exhibit you've linked shows is a simple (Visa) credit card payment receipt via email; it is not the legal firm's invoice, not a retainer agreement, not a statement of legal services. IMO, the facts from the credit card receipt are "Kathy Allen paid Gibson 5 grand on Oct 27th via credit card; credit card receipt notes: "Representation of Richard Allen pre-arrest Carroll County"".
For emergent representation, full retainer agreement would be presented after payment. Billing against retainer and hourly detail would arrive with monthly billing statement. Normal stuff of the trade. JMHO

(Obviously, whoever made the receipt notation was unaware Allen had been arrested 10/26.) JMHO

Addressed further in this post:
GUILTY - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218
also JMHO
FWIW, I never called it anthing except "a receipt".

FWIW, it's a long way since 27 October. Funny thing is that no copy of any "emergent representation or full retainer agreement" is attached as an exhibit. Nor are any of the monthly 'billings' detailing services rendered during the 30 day cycle (in the past 3 months thay've had). IE: it's missing any "normal stuff of the trade" which would clearly carry more weight than an official document which clearly labels the payment as being for "Pre-arrest Representation" (with zero notation from Gibson nor the defense that it may be labelled incorrectly in their filing).

IMO.
 
FWIW, I never called it anthing except "a receipt".

FWIW, it's a long way since 27 October. Funny thing is that no copy of any "emergent representation or full retainer agreement" is attached as an exhibit. Nor are any of the monthly 'billings' detailing services rendered during the 30 day cycle. IE: it's missing any "normal stuff of the trade" which would clearly carry more weight than an official document which clearly labels the paymen as being for "Pre-arrest Representation".

IMO.
And the strongest affidavit would be from that attorney himself. So why isn't there one from him? IMO is because they are using the affidavit to suggest something that the rest of the facts don't support.

IMO they purposefully didn't ask for or include a statement from the lawyer. Because it likely would have read something like this: I met with RA prior to his arrest. At no time did I represent him post-arrest.

Moreover, if he understood himself to be RA's private defense attorney and there was a super secret hearing of which he wasn't advised, what attorney would let that be? No fiery response to the Court? Didn't happen. Because it didn't happen.

Likely Gibson advised RA that, upon arrest, he'd need to retain a defense attorney (for more than a consultation) or one would be appointed.

And at that hearing, when asked if he wanted the Court to appoint him counsel, he declined, saying instead he would hire his own.

I see no dispute except for in the fiction crafted by the Defense.

JMO
 
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And the strongest affidavit would be from that attorney himself. So why isn't there one from him? IMO is because they are using the affidavit to suggest something that the test of the facts don't support.

IMO they purposefully didn't ask for or include a statement from the lawyer. Because it likely would have read something like this: I met with RA prior to his arrest. At no time did I represent him post-arrest.

Moreover, if he understood himself to be RA's private defense attorney and there was a super secret hearing of which he wasn't advised, what attorney would let that be? No fiery response to the Court? Didn't happen. Because it didn't happen.


Likely Gibson advised RA that, upon arrest, he'd need to retain a defense attorney (for more than a consultation) or one would be appointed.

And at that hearing, when asked if he wanted the Coirt to appoint him counsel, he declined, saying instead he would hire his own.

I see no dispute except for in the fiction crafted by the Defense.

JMO
yes, as always, it is what is missing that speaks more loudly than what the motion is attempting to insinuate.
 
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