GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218

[INfisherman]

They knew all this stuff, and thought he was possibly the killer. We know they didn’t get there, but we don’t know the specific reasoning.

This is part of it, but there’s going to be a lot more. It would have been so convenient to have it all wrapped up, give the families justice, and quell the public firestorm.

He just wasn’t the guy.

Anyone who had property near or butting up to MHB had to be looked at almost immediately. I do not dispute mistakes were made at any point but the obvious people had to be ruled out prior to 2022.

MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Small detail, but BB said RA was youthful, not beautiful.

Rozzi questioned the testimony of many of the state's witnesses.

He started by saying that Betsy Blair’s description of Bridge Guy was "boyish and youthful." They pointed out that Richard Allen is neither.

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 18 | Jury hears closing arguments from prosecution and defense

Jurors hear closing arguments from both sides on Day 18 of the Delphi Murders Trial. The jury is expected to begin deliberations this afternoon.

www.wrtv.com

Next was Betsy Blair. She does not live in Delphi but walked the trail regularly. She testified to seeing Abby and Libby on the trail the day they went missing.

Her testimony shared details on the path she would regularly take on the trail.

She says on February 13th, 2017 she was walking the trail when she noticed a man on the bridge.

Blair described the man she saw as "Bridge Guy." Her testimony detailed that she was about 50 feet away from the man on the bridge.

"He was out on a platform, and looked at me like he was expecting someone. It didn't seem like he was looking for me," Blair testified.

She described the man as:

• Causasian
• 20s-30s
• brown poofy hair
• younger, boyish look
• youthful
• average height
• no facial hair

Blair said she only saw the man, "for a moment."
When asked by the jury if the "brown poofy hair" could've been a hat, she said it's possible.

Blair also said the man she saw on the bridge is the man in the photo released by police of "Bridge Guy.”

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 4 | Focus on examination of physical evidence recovered at crime scene

Testimony and cross-examination of the state's witness, ISP crime scene investigator Brian Olehy, continued on day four of the Delphi Murders trial.

www.wrtv.com

“Blair also said the man she saw on the bridge is the man in the photo released by police of "Bridge Guy.””

This is very important, yet there are people who continue to insist RA was not on the bridge and never identified on the bridge.


Edit: tidying up

 

[INfisherman]

“Blair also said the man she saw on the bridge is the man in the photo released by police of "Bridge Guy.””


“Blair also said the man she saw on the bridge is the man in the photo released by police of "Bridge Guy.””

This is very important, yet there are people who continue to insist RA was not on the bridge and never identified on the bridge.

IIRC, all the state’s eyewitnesses said at trial the man in the video was the man they saw - RV, BW, BB & SC.

MOO

ETA state’s

 

[Megnut]

IIRC, all the eyewitnesses said at trial the man in the video was the man they saw - RV, BW, BB & SC.

MOO

Even RA himself identified BG -- as himself, depending on where the photo came from. But of course we know why he added the condition. As absurd a condition as it was.

JMO

 

[snarast]

Those witness were not direct witness. The only direct witnesses were Abby and Libby.

It’s a disadvantage to try to get caught up now from not following at the time and missing the many posts and links on witnesses. This topic has been covered extensively in the threads.

Those witnesses, later, in retrospect, had to recall their memories of fellow trail goers to the best of their ability.

It is the corroborating evidence and RA’s ongoing freely given confessions that got him a conviction not any inadequacy of park goers doing their best to later recall who they saw where that day, imo.


[...]

Though a pair of sketches were generated as the result of witness descriptions of men — one middle aged, the other significantly younger — who were spotted on the nature trail leading up to the bridge that day, investigators remain stymied in their search for the alleged killer.

The sketches were ruled out of the trial by Special Judge Fran Gull, who agreed with Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland that, since the renditions did not resemble Allen, inclusion in the evidence could only serve to confuse jurors, which is the point of the defense team’s attempt to introduce them as evidence.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-trial-jurors-reviewed-murder-evidence-missteps-during-2nd-week-in-court/

all imo

That is an unsound argument in my book.

IMHO

 

[INfisherman]

Even RA himself identified BG -- as himself, depending on where the photo came from. But of course we know why he added the condition. As absurd a condition as it was.

JMO

Preaching to the choir, Megnut. I love how direct you address specific points of contention which deserve the good old manure shovel treatment in most instances, not just in this case/trial either.

RA was putting out feelers to find out what LE knew. Only problem is that he wasn’t as smart as he thought he was and a couple of responses were just worded very awkwardly IMO. Evidently there’s a big gap in convincing KA versus good ol’ Jer.

I’m of the opinion RA had been lying about many other things which were occurring well before that day at MHB. Didn’t he state after leaving mommy he stopped & bought a sixer? Wonder if there is any video footage of that stop over in Miami County? Oh, to be a squirrel digging through the evidence for a couple of days.

MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The State has filed its response to the last defense motion filed.
Hopefully someone else can get a link to the actual documents.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/state-says-inmate-who-claimed-ron-logan-confessed-to-delphi-killings-failed-polygraph-test/

 

[INfisherman]

The State has filed its response to the last defense motion filed.
Hopefully someone else can get a link to the actual documents.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/state-says-inmate-who-claimed-ron-logan-confessed-to-delphi-killings-failed-polygraph-test/

Posted upthread by @MassGuy

Missing the exhibit pages but not complaining at all.

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218'
GUILTY - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218

 

[ClearAhead]

Even RA himself identified BG -- as himself, depending on where the photo came from. But of course we know why he added the condition. As absurd a condition as it was.

JMO

That’s right, he didn’t outrightly deny it. Perhaps following the early rumours, he thought the source was trail cam. JMO

Richard Allen was not on Delphi investigators' radar. Then a volunteer found a box of tips.

Testimonies in the double-murder trial revealed how investigators focused on Richard Allen in 2022.

www.jconline.com

“Mullin also said he asked Allen if he was "Bridge Guy," the man seen in the infamous photo and video following Abby and Libby on the high bridge.

"His response was, 'If the picture was taken with the girls' camera, there was no way it was him,'" Mullin testified.”

 

[Vern]

@Niner

Updates:

3 Feb 2025: Limited Appearance By Attorneys

_Limited Appearance by Attorneys.pdf

drive.google.com

3 Feb 2025: NBCU’S Motion To Intervene And To Compel Access To Public Trial Exhibits

_NBCU’s Motion to Intervene and to Compel Access to Public Trial Exhibits.pdf

drive.google.com

4 Feb 2025: State's Response To Motion To Correct Error

_State’s Response to Motion to Correct Error.pdf

drive.google.com

.

 

[Vern]

I simply can't wait for the transcripts to come ...

I'm quite interested by the prosecution actually using the word "untruthful" in a legal document (Para 1p., pg 3), not in relation to any witness, but actually in relation to the Defence and their allegations themselves being found to be "untruthful by the court". That's quite an allegation to make (although, if the Franks' were any example ... IMO).

Everything else seems to be as we called it IMO. No new evidence. RA was not represented by an attorney etc. All IMO.

I wager we'll see the MTCE denied.

 

[somequestions]

I watched the bridge guy video again. I noticed something, but maybe someone else also saw it too?

According to Richard Allen he was wearing a beanie hat that day out on the trail. What I saw in the bridge guy video was the hat looks like it had an indentation at the top of it like it was not fully against bridge guy's head.
Maybe Richard Allen does not always wear his beanie hats directly against his head completely pulled down?

I tried looking to see if I could see if the jacket in the bridge guy video had a Carhartt logo on it, but it was too difficult to tell.

 

[INfisherman]

I watched the bridge guy video again. I noticed something, but maybe someone else also saw it too?

According to Richard Allen he was wearing a beanie hat that day out on the trail. What I saw in the bridge guy video was the hat looks like it had an indentation at the top of it like it was not fully against bridge guy's head.
Maybe Richard Allen does not always wear his beanie hats directly against his head completely pulled down?

I tried looking to see if I could see if the jacket in the bridge guy video had a Carhartt logo on it, but it was too difficult to tell.

Hmmmm.

There was a picture posted of him here right around the trial, where he was playing pool in a bar, wearing a tan/beige looking beanie/stocking hat - it had this odd lip or lump to it, right in the area of the forehead or just above the brows.

 

[mrjitty]

I simply can't wait for the transcripts to come ...

I'm quite interested by the prosecution actually using the word "untruthful" in a legal document (Para 1p., pg 3), not in relation to any witness, but actually in relation to the Defence and their allegations themselves being found to be "untruthful by the court". That's quite an allegation to make (although, if the Franks' were any example ... IMO).

Everything else seems to be as we called it IMO. No new evidence. RA was not represented by an attorney etc. All IMO.

I wager we'll see the MTCE denied.


View attachment 562751

The Judge made that finding about the Ds submissions on the defendant's living conditions IIRC

 

[mrjitty]

I guess no real surprises in the State's Response to MCE

I already argued that the Weber video was not new. The D choose not to introduce it at trial. They obviously could have tried to use it to impeach Weber, but instead used a different strategy to try to get a much later time.

The argument about the timestamps of the video - this is why we have trials! You can't argue about the timing of the video later.

Logan - ditto not new evidence. They choose not to bring this up because it would have flopped.

Gibson is pure EL OH EL and why i don't take anything claimed by Ausbrook seriously.

P2 (1.h)

That on November 3m, 2022, the State received an email from Attorney Brett Gibson stating that he would not be representing the Defendant, herein attached as State's Exhibit "3".

Maybe there is some 9 dimensional chess reason for all this Gibson stuff but it seems super weak to go upstairs.

All that said, the stuff about that pre-trial conditions and confessions is their best issue IMO. As previously discussed, the problem on 3rd party Odinism on appeal is always going to be that the jury heard the confessions and believed them, so a Court will be slow to disturb for other reasons.

So they really need to get the confessions excluded somehow. I really don't like this manner of detention, but the D did have a defended hearing about it, when they finally got round to making an application for one, and were found to have misled the court and to have been negligent in their representation by Judge Gull. This is on the record. So again on appeal that will be very damaging because the Appeal is not a do-over of what the Judge found there.

All in all, an appeal is not a referendum on prison conditions. The citizens of Indiana set those at the end of the day and it wasn't Judge Gull's job to decide policy.

So I have sympathy for the overall argument, but don't see them winning on it. They bungled it in June 2023 when they didn't bother to make the Psychosis argument with medical foundation.

 

[INfisherman]

I guess no real surprises in the State's Response to MCE

I already argued that the Weber video was not new. The D choose not to introduce it at trial. They obviously could have tried to use it to impeach Weber, but instead used a different strategy to try to get a much later time.

The argument about the timestamps of the video - this is why we have trials! You can't argue about the timing of the video later.

Logan - ditto not new evidence. They choose not to bring this up because it would have flopped.

Gibson is pure EL OH EL and why i don't take anything claimed by Ausbrook seriously.

P2 (1.h)


Maybe there is some 9 dimensional chess reason for all this Gibson stuff but it seems super weak to go upstairs.

All that said, the stuff about that pre-trial conditions and confessions is their best issue IMO. As previously discussed, the problem on 3rd party Odinism on appeal is always going to be that the jury heard the confessions and believed them, so a Court will be slow to disturb for other reasons.

So they really need to get the confessions excluded somehow. I really don't like this manner of detention, but the D did have a defended hearing about it, when they finally got round to making an application for one, and were found to have misled the court and to have been negligent in their representation by Judge Gull. This is on the record. So again on appeal that will be very damaging because the Appeal is not a do-over of what the Judge found there.

All in all, an appeal is not a referendum on prison conditions. The citizens of Indiana set those at the end of the day and it wasn't Judge Gull's job to decide policy.

So I have sympathy for the overall argument, but don't see them winning on it. They bungled it in June 2023 when they didn't bother to make the Psychosis argument with medical foundation.

I wonder if NM smirked at any point when he was composing this response. I know I would have for sure.

The video of BW is just more of the same dud of a bombshell just like the hair in AW’s hand prior to trial. NM said it best, it was there for the taking all along yet they chose to try & impeach BW improperly & now wish to seemingly try to change their strategy post trial & use that as a reason for retrial. Seems like they’re almost trying to be ineffective intentionally.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Maybe any US lawyer can chime in but my understanding is questions of tactics and strategy don't amount to ineffective representation. They chose not to use the video for good reasons. Was it the wrong decision? Unknowable.

 

[INfisherman]

Maybe any US layer can chime in but my understanding is questions of tactics and strategy don't amount to ineffective representation. They chose not to use the video for good reasons. Was it the wrong decision? Unknowable.

I tend to lean towards your understanding regarding ineffectiveness. For the sake of clarity, I also wasn’t alluding it was ineffectiveness, just noting how it comes across.

Video likely wasn’t used because it was next to impossible to verify the exact inaccuracy of the timestamp. Complete guess, but that’s probably the most obvious. It likely would have just strengthened the state’s timeline more than anything, as the phone ceasing movement is the last real piece of evidence showing the girls were potentially still alive & not necessarily the time the attacks began. It appeared to me that NM was careful not to give his theories as to the exact happenings once the phone stopped moving. Seems to be a wise choice to let the evidence speak for itself.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

I tend to lean towards your understanding regarding ineffectiveness. For the sake of clarity, I also wasn’t alluding it was ineffectiveness, just noting how it comes across.

Video likely wasn’t used because it was next to impossible to verify the exact inaccuracy of the timestamp. Complete guess, but that’s probably the most obvious. It likely would have just strengthened the state’s timeline more than anything, as the phone ceasing movement is the last real piece of evidence showing the girls were potentially still alive & not necessarily the time the attacks began. It appeared to me that NM was careful not to give his theories as to the exact happenings once the phone stopped moving. Seems to be a wise choice to let the evidence speak for itself.

JMO

Yeah. I mean they could have used the pings plus the videos to get a rough timing i suppose but like you say, the real issue is they are then admitting the van was there, and arguing about the positioning of the deck chairs, whereas they obviously preferred to argue the van wasn't there.

Anyway you look at it, the van was very bad for them, and the video/pings contradicted their version.

 

[Megnut]

The Delphi Murders: The State's Response to Motion to Correct Error

Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland filed his response to Richard Allen's trial team's motion to correct error. Pre-order our book on Delphi...

murdersheetpodcast.com

Will update as I listen.