Agreed. I wonder if he heard something from a source in law enforcement?
As you point out, the confessions to Dr W in question happened long before this video.
GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218
- Thread starter Tricia
- Start date
- Status
Agreed. I wonder if he heard something from a source in law enforcement?
As you point out, the confessions to Dr W in question happened long before this video.
The idea that RA was secretly arraigned and this was concealed from Gibson makes no sense when the filing itself makes clear Gibson knew RA would be charged the next day. Nothing was stopping Gibson from contacting the Clerk and proceeding per normal.
Does it say anywhere that Gibson was deceived in this way? That a secret arraignment was scheduled so that he would be tricked?
There seems to be some suggestion that it was the State's job to tell the clerk about Gibson to ensure that he turned up to represent his own client.
is that SOP?
Does it say anywhere that Gibson was deceived in this way? That a secret arraignment was scheduled so that he would be tricked?
There seems to be some suggestion that it was the State's job to tell the clerk about Gibson to ensure that he turned up to represent his own client.
is that SOP?
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2014
- Messages
- 8,122
- Reaction score
- 116,640
The Delphi murders were high-profile, and RA could have been targeted for violence or retaliation. The pseudonym name was simply a step toward his protection.
jmo
maybe RA should move for ineffective assistance of counsel. he paid 5k on a retainer, met with his lawyer in prison then the guy forgets to turn up to the arraignment and never files into the case???? I mean did G just get his 5k and forget all about representing his client who was just charged with murder????
Seems pretty negligent!
If true???
MOO
Seems pretty negligent!
If true???
MOO
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2021
- Messages
- 4,127
- Reaction score
- 30,889
Mystery surrounds Indiana murder of 2 teen girls: ‘We cannot fail on this case’
Abby Williams and Libby German were found dead over three weeks ago.
DELPHI, Indiana -- In rural Delphi, Indiana, 14-year-old Arika Gibson is grieving the murders of her two friends the only way she knows how: by vowing to pursue a career in law enforcement and stop something like this from ever happening again.
"I'm gonna do the best I can to catch criminals like the person who did this to them,” Arika told ABC News. "I'm not gonna let this person take over my life and ruin everything I know and love.”
On Feb. 13, eighth-graders Abby Williams and Libby German disappeared while on a hiking trail in the area. Their bodies were found the next day in nearby woods.
-.-.-
I knew, I had heard the surname of RA's attending or not attending lawyer. Is it just a coincidence?
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2018
- Messages
- 16,305
- Reaction score
- 270,212
The interview many of us have been waiting for, off to listen --
Doug Carter, Part 1
Doug Carter, Part 1
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2018
- Messages
- 16,305
- Reaction score
- 270,212
And Part 2
The Delphi Murders: First Person: Doug Carter: Part Two
For many, now retired Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter became the public face of the Delphi murders investigation. He spoke with us about the...
murdersheetpodcast.com
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2018
- Messages
- 16,305
- Reaction score
- 270,212
Insight from Part 1 -- DC addresses his reference to The Shack. No hidden meaning. He'd seen the movie, felt the contrast of the crime scene and (my words) the serenity of the field in The Shack. How you left them isn't how they are now -- IMO that reflects DC's faith.
JMO
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 1,580
- Reaction score
- 2,847
Emphasis added above is mine. I did hear him speculate about the “the van” in this linked snippet but I didn’t hear him say “white van”, and because this has been a point of contention previously I thought I would bring that up for anyone who can’t watch video right now. JMO, MOO, and all that jazz.
Doug Carter's dad was a ISP state trooper. His dad instilled a sense of service in Carter during his lifetime. Doug Carter spent 18 years as a state trooper, then ran for sheriff of Hamilton County (which he had never planned to do, but was convinced to do). He served as the elected sheriff for two terms, then was appointed in 2012 to the position of ISP superintendent. He speaks to the difficulties of managing the ISP from logistical to emotional.
He was asked "What makes a good leader?" and his answer was "don't ever ask someone to do what you haven't done, and care deeply about other people." He talks about "servant leadership" and how that is a core tenet in his life. There is an anecdote about a time when Doug Carter showed leadership to Jerry Holeman that is a window into the human side of the law enforcement profession and the toll it takes on investigators.
Carter saw his own father become "cynical and hateful" over the course of his career. Not long before he died Carter shared private time with him and he asked Carter not to become cynical like he was. So Carter consciously fights against this constantly because of all the horrible things that people in law enforcement see.
Carter describes how he learned about something happening in Delphi and how the ISP got involved. He still remembers what he was doing when he got a call that two bodies were found by the river. "You deal with death and destruction every day of your life, but there was something different about this." He drove to Delphi has fast as his Dodge Charger could get him there.
Carter went to the scene in person. It was a bit of a blur because there was so much information that he was receiving. He realized that his job was to mitigate the madness that was about to happen. The ISP was going to have a large footprint and his job was to support "those that more about this than I do, because I never was a detective in my whole entire career."
He describes learning about their limitations and how the FBI helped out with this. They knew that they would have to start over and go through all the information they collected in the course of the investigation eventually, whether that was because they hit a dead end or because they made an arrest (and then needed to go back through all data to build a case).
Carter kept up on the investigation every single day. The Unified Command allowed them to consolidate resources because of the size of the ISP agency. He describes the way that investigators would fuss with each other. But also describes this as a positive thing, that ensured they made progress and didn't get stuck in "group think."
In his mind, he had no early thoughts on the type of person who might have committed the murders. He doesn't remember people moving forward based on what they "think" happened, but rather what they know. However, once he walked across the High Bridge himself, he realized there must be a local connection. "Unless you've been out there, you don't really understand it...this isn't going to be somebody who just happened to stop in here and walk across this bridge."
Carter says it's very important the the public knows that as the case gained momentum it was difficult to manage. The notion that there was a cover-up is not logical to him. However, he acknowledges that the sheer time it took to solve the case was problematic, and it was also problematic to him personally. However, he had the insight that the public did not have of seeing how hard the investigators were working.
There were circumstances and dynamics in play that made this particular case different and is the most complex homicide investigation in ISP history in his opinion, partly because of the notoriety of it.
The host notes that the fact that Libby took a video of the Bridge Guy incited the public in a way where people felt like "oh I can solve this" and it made people feel like they could help - which could be good, but could also be bad since there are limits to what speculation can do.
Carter talks about the strange fact that nobody recognized either the image, video, or sound. He hopes this question will be answered some day.
Was Carter aware people were studying every word he said? Yes, and he thought it was a good thing because it kept people talking about the case and brought attention to it. He knows that there are people who hate him because of things that he has said and how the things he said were twisted. So he doesn't understand why they do this but he knows.
There was a lot of debate over the sketches. He's okay with taking heat on this. He reiterates that he said from the beginning that a sketch is not a photograph. It's a recollection of the human mind. The decision to release the sketches was hard and there was a lot of internal debate about whether to do it.
Narratives came out that "threw us out of balance" as the public tried to figure the case out. He hopes that people learned from this that it's not always a conspiracy when something isn't solved as quickly as you think it should be.
The New Direction press conference was carefully planned as a message to the killer. Carter says he has to be careful as he talks about it. There was a thought that an FBI agent should do it. Liggett argued with Carter about saying the "he could be in this room" part. But Carter won out on that one and it stayed in the script. Carter felt the press conference was a way of "ripping off the scab" and addressing the killer directly.
There was no special meaning to his press conference referenced to "The Shack." It was just a movie that he saw and resonated with him. "One of them had to watch the other one die. And that haunted me." The movie talked about the peace at the end and truth setting you free and that's what he was alluding to.
Carter says he's just not a script kind of guy. He prefers to wing it and sometimes it gets him in trouble. He's not going to apologize for being emotional. "I've seen so much death in my lifetime, but I haven't gotten used to it."
Leazenby also argued with Carter at the New Direction press conference. He wanted to be up at the podium with Carter. But the plan was to have just a single messenger and "it was way beyond him [Leazenby] at that point."
There were several investigations that came out of this like the Kegan Kline one. It appears that Carter's referring to these other, unrelated investigations that came out of tips or information provided for Delphi when he talks about the complexity of the case.
The families of the victims have been frustrated and upset, because there were things that they couldn't be told.
IMO Carter comes off as at times earnest, at times friendly and teasing and personable. It's an interesting picture of a person serving in law enforcement.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2017
- Messages
- 3,628
- Reaction score
- 41,103
Indeed; turns out his confessions happened in May 2023. Hughes video is March 2024.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2017
- Messages
- 3,628
- Reaction score
- 41,103
I agree; IMO, they held him in the Carroll County Jail under a pseudonym because there is mingleing time there. If/when word leaked out that an arrest of "Richard Allen" had been made in a double child murder in their small town, RA would have been at immediate risk from his fellow prisoners f they had known who he really was.
They were protecting his physical safety & wellbeing from the immediate outstart IMO.
Such is life in a Small Town.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2017
- Messages
- 3,628
- Reaction score
- 41,103
Could be; it's my last name too, but IANAL and I don't now RA's alleged lawyer. Plenty of us Gibson people out there in the world.Mystery surrounds Indiana murder of 2 teen girls: ‘We cannot fail on this case’
Abby Williams and Libby German were found dead over three weeks ago.abcnews.go.com
DELPHI, Indiana -- In rural Delphi, Indiana, 14-year-old Arika Gibson is grieving the murders of her two friends the only way she knows how: by vowing to pursue a career in law enforcement and stop something like this from ever happening again.
"I'm gonna do the best I can to catch criminals like the person who did this to them,” Arika told ABC News. "I'm not gonna let this person take over my life and ruin everything I know and love.”
On Feb. 13, eighth-graders Abby Williams and Libby German disappeared while on a hiking trail in the area. Their bodies were found the next day in nearby woods.
-.-.-
I knew, I had heard the surname of RA's attending or not attending lawyer. Is it just a coincidence?
And Part 2
The Delphi Murders: First Person: Doug Carter: Part Two
For many, now retired Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter became the public face of the Delphi murders investigation. He spoke with us about the...murdersheetpodcast.com
Carter learned that Kathy Shank had uncovered a promising lead when he was in Barcelona. It was his first vacation in 10 years and his first time out of the country other than to Mexico. Nick McCleland called and said "within the next few days, we'll have an arrest." He didn't feel like he thought he would. It took him awhile to process. He thought he would feel total relief. But then the totality of the fact that the investigators would have to go back and "start over" with over 80,000 tips to prepare for trial was overwhelming.
When the leak of the crime scene photos happened, the Murder Sheet reached out to Holeman right away, for which Carter thanks them. From the beginning Carter wanted accountability for this, no matter who was responsible. The Murder Sheet also contacted the defense side and they had very little interest in pursuing it.
Carter talks about the leak. How do you process seeing your daughter or granddaughter murdered or in the process of being autopsied. He doesn't know how you ever get over it.
He couldn't protect law enforcement officers from attacks. He doesn't pretend to understand why the gag order was imposed but he knows they observed it and he doesn't understand why others did not see the need to. He "wanted to fire back at them." But he couldn't do anything about it.
His testimony at the trial lasted 4 minutes. He spent 20 hours preparing. He doesn't know what the defense strategy was. He's not critical of it, they did what they needed to do, but he doesn't understand it. He wasn't able to be at the trial due to the fact that he was a witness.
He didn't get updates about anything in the trial until after he testified. He even shut off news coverage and couldn't take it. It was very sensationalistic. He believes the media bears some responsibility for not calming down some of the rhetoric and not reporting with more depth and understanding. He thought some of the coverage was completely unfair and even detrimental to the system of justice.
The host points out that it seemed a lot of people didn't understand how criminal cases work. And they went on to create public narratives that were completely sensational if not false.
About the FBI being "booted off" the case: there came a time when we had to consolidate resources. That's all it was. There was a concerted effort to bring "all of this under one roof." The FBI operates under different rules and so they had to bring it all under one roof. It was more logistical than anything else.
There was peace that came over Carter in the courtroom and a sense of closure. The most profound thing he has heard is that "the only perspective that matters is that of the jury." He acknowledges that our system allows a jury to observe how witnesses act and judge truthfulness. He says the attentiveness of this jury was profound.
After the verdict, Carter went back to McCleland's office. It wasn't celebratory at all. He also spent time with the victims' families and the detectives. It was somber. He echoes what many others have said about McCleland's preparedness. "He was a task master for us, and I love that!"
Jerry Holeman "is like the brother I never had." Carter had never really known him before this case. But they had a kindred spirit after they got to know each other. Holeman is the one who "pulled all of this together" and Holeman is the only one capable of doing it. He can be gruff and stubborn but "at the end of the day he keeps us on the straight and narrow."
He talks about how they tried to do the right thing but recognize that they sometimes failed. However, they never set out knowing that they were doing the wrong or confusing thing. They just did the best they could with what they knew at the time. "There was very little we had - people thought we had more than we had. So what we did have, we had to keep very close to the vest."
He thinks the biggest misconception about the case is that there was some kind of planned conspiracy or that they didn't do everything that they possibly could do. He talks a little bit about the appeals system and how we have to relax and just let it play out.
Carter has reached out to some of the people who criticized him. Sometimes they had productive conversations (even if they still disagree) and other times they didn't.
He talks about the emotions from seeing the worst things and then also seeing the best in people. Carter humorously says "Dang you!" every time he gets a question in the interview that makes him feel emotional.
A regret from the end of his career is that the Flora Fire is still unsolved. His gut feeling is that the person who set the fire did not intend to kill the girls. This is unfinished business for him.
Carter describes that "a part of me is dead inside." He says he's not okay and it's okay to not be okay. He will be okay eventually, and help is out there, and he encourages anyone who needs it to get it.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2017
- Messages
- 3,628
- Reaction score
- 41,103
RS&BBM
First off, thank you! @Yemelyan for the RDCV of this interview. I appreciate it!!
I was po'd about the leak of the Defence's photos before as I saw the crime scene photos when they popped up on my twitter feed. Unreal. But to learn that autopsy photos also made the leak (I did NOT see them) ... I am even more disgusted.
I really hope that official accountablity for this leak is still down the road and being pursued. IMO.
RexLuther
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2021
- Messages
- 82
- Reaction score
- 403
If it was extremely windy from GH's facebook group post BG must have a great sense of balance with hand is pockets crossing the bridge. A source for weather that day - accuracy unknown. JMO.
Delphi weather 13th Feb 2017
Delphi weather 13th Feb 2017
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 1,580
- Reaction score
- 2,847
while it’s by no means exhaustive*, I’ll mention that searching channel transcripts within a specific timeframe for precise terms like “white van” could, perhaps, give a broad picture of how often it may have occurred jmo I just did a quick search myself and found 98 results on GH channel, many of which are unrelated to Delphi JMO. I used filmot.com, if you’re unfamiliar with it, it’s a site you can use to find keywords in videos.
* accents, AI errors, the usual suspects can lead to erroneous transcripts but I’ve found it a useful tool and thought I would share.
* accents, AI errors, the usual suspects can lead to erroneous transcripts but I’ve found it a useful tool and thought I would share.
INfisherman
I won’t be doing that again.
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2024
- Messages
- 2,196
- Reaction score
- 26,528
Pretty sure the weather station is in West Lafayette & they include the small town of Delphi, about 22 miles away. Winds over the course of daylight hours were variable & the highest in the hourly record was 13mph, lowest 3mph. MHB is in the middle of a forest, which would slow down some of the wind. I doubt 13mph is going blow an adult male who has crossed the bridge many a time off balance any more than it would have AW, who was much less experienced at crossing than RA.
MOO
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2009
- Messages
- 47,122
- Reaction score
- 116,275
I don't recall saying Defendant's right to be heard with regard to safekeeping are different if he had private counsel. My posts are in response to those who insist on inferring from the MTCE re safeguarding exhibits that attorney Gibson was hired to represent RA and subsequently kept from attending the hearing because he was not given the pertinent information about the alleged secret hearing. My point is, I cannot infer that based on the flimsy evidence produced by the defense to illustrate that alleged failure to inform Gibson. I may very well have had a different opinion had the defense produced with their motion on this topic an affidavit from attorney Gibson swearing that he was prevented from attending the hearing because the proceeding was kept hidden from him. But they didn't and what they did produce in the form of exhibits to support their argument falls short for me.
None of which, to me, illustrates Gibson was excluded from the safekeeping hearing. The questions posed to him by defense counsel don't even touch on the subject of the hearing on October 28th. Which naturally makes me question WHY? I think Gibson not being there and no other counsel being there is the crux of the defense's argument on this topic, is it not?
ETA and if it is NOT then why is any of this in the motion in the first place?
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2014
- Messages
- 8,122
- Reaction score
- 116,640
Can you explain the significance of BG having enough balance, despite wind, to walk with hands in pockets on the bridge?
Abby also had her hands in her pockets.
Photo: IndyStar
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
Online statistics
- Members online
- 175
- Guests online
- 561
- Total visitors
- 736