GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #220

[Vaderman]

I know mistakes happen, people are human...errors get made, but man, that was one colossal screw up for the record books.

I think this is why the conspiracy theories have been so prevalent. It's sometimes hard to accept the fact that RA came very close to skating free due to sheer dumb luck.

 

[INfisherman]

I think this is why the conspiracy theories have been so prevalent. It's sometimes hard to accept the fact that RA came very close to skating free due to sheer dumb luck.

That & some have a hard time accepting a different outcome than the one which they desire. Also, conspiracy theories are often more attention grabbing & intricate.

MOO

 

[somequestions]

That parking lot was not there in 2017. He stated in that interview, the area where the new parking lot is located (on the west side of the highway - 25, I believe), that’s where WE would park, indicating when he was with his family.

He said, I believe to DD, he parked at the old Farm Bureau building, which turned out to be the CPS building. Then in 2022, he is conveniently uncertain & starts going off on another tangent. That’s another instance where he spoke about everything under the sun except for directly answering the question. It wouldn’t have mattered if they held a gun to his head, he wasn’t going to be anyone’s fall guy, just as he said, so he lied & used meaningless anecdotes as a way of avoiding the subject at hand.

Just as he said. It didn’t matter, it’s was over. Another instance where he slipped up & tried to lie his way out of it. That’s what he does over & over, open his big mouth & then tries to cover it up by lying.

Did I say I was there until after 2:30? No, I was there no later than 1:30. Lies, lies & more lies.

MOO

Would you happen to know which parking lot Richard Allen was trying to explain to Detective Mullins and Sheriff Liggett in his first interrogation interview?

The only parking lots that have been documented by everyone in this case through video or pictures are 1. The old CPS building, which is a very small lot. 2. The Freedom Bridge parking lot which is right next to the Freedom Bridge and 3. The Mears Farm entrance parking lot (which is where Abby and Libby were dropped off).

When I found this new parking lot on the north side of Arnold Street it is only a little directly west of the Freedom Bridge so if it had been there in 2017 I thought it would be a good place to park. Are there any pictures showing it was not there in 2017?

If that parking lot at north Arnold Street was not there in 2017, what other parking lot is Richard Allen referring to in his first interrogation? What is the location of this parking lot Richard Allen is referring to in his first interrogation?

 

[somequestions]

I think this is why the conspiracy theories have been so prevalent. It's sometimes hard to accept the fact that RA came very close to skating free due to sheer dumb luck.

It really was luck.

According to Richard Allen's story during his first interrogation, he went to the Monon High Bridge, was on platform 1 to look at fish, then walked back to the intersection of the 501 and 505 trail and sat on the bench that overlooks the creek facing away from the trail. Then he says it could have been as late as around 1:45pm when he left.

When you listen to the interrogation, when he says "he left", I think he means when he got up from the bench at the 505 overlooking the creek to walk back down the trail to leave. According to Richard Allen, he turns around at that bench and sees a sedan and SUV in the Mears parking lot.

But could he have seen Liberty German's older sister's car? Is that the sedan he is referring to? I am not referring to the older sister having anything to do with the crime. I do not think that at all. What I want to know is did police every figure out who the driver of the sedan was?

He was very lucky to come up with the story he did because as people have pointed out he actually referenced the type of vehicles he saw in the Mears parking lot that day.

 

[INfisherman]

Would you happen to know which parking lot Richard Allen was trying to explain to Detective Mullins and Sheriff Liggett in his first interrogation interview?

The only parking lots that have been documented by everyone in this case through video or pictures are 1. The old CPS building, which is a very small lot. 2. The Freedom Bridge parking lot which is right next to the Freedom Bridge and 3. The Mears Farm entrance parking lot (which is where Abby and Libby were dropped off).

When I found this new parking lot on the north side of Arnold Street it is only a little directly west of the Freedom Bridge so if it had been there in 2017 I thought it would be a good place to park. Are there any pictures showing it was not there in 2017?

If that parking lot at north Arnold Street was not there in 2017, what other parking lot is Richard Allen referring to in his first interrogation? What is the location of this parking lot Richard Allen is referring to in his first interrogation?

I know the general area he’s describing & I believe it’s along Old Camden Road, which intersects with Arnold Street. The parking lot you’re asking about was not there in 2017. Refer to the Google Earth screen capture I took using historical imagery from 12APR17 which is shown below. The red box is where the parking lot is today at the end of Arnold Street (indicated by red arrow) - wasn’t there in 2017. The blue boxes are areas where he might have been trying to describe. It was impossible to tell because he wouldn’t give street names nor would he give precise directions. He also kept talking about a bridge - there are 3, one of which is MHB, which has no place to park. The other is Freedom Bridge, which is the blue bridge they were describing in the interview. The third is shown below (green arrow) & may be a foot bridge which goes over Old SR 25 & continues east towards Freedom Bridge (over New SR 25 AKA Hoosier Heartland Highway) & the trailhead area, as indicated by the yellow arrow. He might have been describing the current MHB parking lot (above the yellow arrow) but he said there were houses after the Y (in the road) when he was trying to bumble his way giving directions through town. How long has he lived there & he suddenly can’t name streets or county roads?



RA stated in the 2022 interview with Mullin & Liggett it wasn’t really a parking lot & it turns into a lane & there was a bridge up there. He said he EITHER parked there OR at the building (CPS). In 2017 he told Dulin he parked at the building, just like he told Dulin he was there from 1:30 to 3:30. In 2022 he changing his story or giving other possibilities, trying to continue hiding in plain sight.

He was lying about anything which changed from his 2017 statement. He knew they were onto him when they showed up at his house & asked him to come down to be interviewed in 2022. That’s when his time changed & now where he parked. The anecdotal BS & all the unhelpful things he COULD remember (days doing volunteer work, having a wreck - all THOSE details he could remember & describe vividly) & had nothing to do with the questions being asked was an attempt to maintain his "nice guy trying to help" routine.

MOO

ETA can’t spell

 

[Boxer]

It really was luck.

According to Richard Allen's story during his first interrogation, he went to the Monon High Bridge, was on platform 1 to look at fish, then walked back to the intersection of the 501 and 505 trail and sat on the bench that overlooks the creek facing away from the trail. Then he says it could have been as late as around 1:45pm when he left.

When you listen to the interrogation, when he says "he left", I think he means when he got up from the bench at the 505 overlooking the creek to walk back down the trail to leave. According to Richard Allen, he turns around at that bench and sees a sedan and SUV in the Mears parking lot.

But could he have seen Liberty German's older sister's car? Is that the sedan he is referring to? I am not referring to the older sister having anything to do with the crime. I do not think that at all. What I want to know is did police every figure out who the driver of the sedan was?

He was very lucky to come up with the story he did because as people have pointed out he actually referenced the type of vehicles he saw in the Mears parking lot that day.

She is on camera leaving west to Delphi after dropping the girls off.

 

[Boxer]

All the unnecessary detail. He must exhaust himself.

Passing the group of girls at FB sets the time of his arrival, being on the platform sets his location just 60 seconds before Libby and Abby came within eyeshot of him as they approached the MHB.
He would need to have passed them to get to the bench.

 

[INfisherman]

She is on camera leaving west to Delphi after dropping the girls off.

Not only that but if he were sitting on the bench, BB likely would have seen him IMO. Not a word of her seeing a man sitting on a bench. The only man she saw was standing on the bridge & didn’t leave there until AW & LG passed by.

 

[Megnut]

It's worth noting too that the image of BG that was released, the 2 second video even, shows a very large RA.

I think he thought it IMPOSSIBLE to be captured THAT size by Libby because he thinks HE WOULD HAVE SEEN HER PHONE. And he knows he didn't. Not once. Not the whole time he was forcing them off the bridge, down the hill, not while forced to undress, not while crossing the river, not when he murdered them.

Yes, there was audio. GDTH. He knew he did it, knew where he was when he said it. No phone. He was looking right at them.

He long ago decided it had to be trail cam of some sort. Because IT COULDN'T HAVE come from the girls' phone. There is a huge confession in that, Doubters! He was CERTAIN that image didn't come from their phone because he was RIGHT THERE and didn't see a phone. That's not BG saying that, that RA saying I was there, it didn't come from their phone BC I WOULD HAVE SEEN A PHONE.

RA thought he was right. Didn't come from their phone because they didn't have a phone. Just like his insistence about the bullet. He knew he'd never FIRED a gun there. Too dumb to argue smartly.

Thought LE was trying to trick him. But he was the one putting the puzzle together, with the lies he told, the things he said.

He boxed himself in all by himself.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

I know the general area he’s describing & I believe it’s along Old Camden Road, which intersects with Arnold Street. The parking lot you’re asking about was not there in 2017. Refer to the Google Earth screen capture I took using historical imagery from 12APR17 which is shown below. The red box is where the parking lot is today at the end of Arnold Street (indicated by red arrow) - wasn’t there in 2017. The blue boxes are areas where he might have been trying to describe. It was impossible to tell because he wouldn’t give street names nor would he give precise directions. He also kept talking about a bridge - there are 3, one of which is MHB, which has no place to park. The other is Freedom Bridge, which is the blue bridge they were describing in the interview. The third is shown below (green arrow) & may be a foot bridge which goes over Old SR 25 & continues east towards Freedom Bridge (over New SR 25 AKA Hoosier Heartland Highway) & the trailhead area, as indicated by the yellow arrow. He might have been describing the current MHB parking lot (above the yellow arrow) but he said there were houses after the Y (in the road) when he was trying to bumble his way giving directions through town. How long has he lived there & he suddenly can’t name streets or county roads?

View attachment 583864

RA stated in the 2022 interview with Mullin & Liggett it wasn’t really a parking lot & it turns into a lane & there was a bridge up there. He said he EITHER parked there OR at the building (CPS). In 2017 he told Dulin he parked at the building, just like he told Dulin he was there from 1:30 to 3:30. In 2022 he changing his story or giving other possibilities, trying to continue hiding in plain sight.

He was lying about anything which changed from his 2017 statement. He knew they were onto him when they showed up at his house & asked him to come down to be interviewed in 2022. That’s when his time changed & now where he parked. The anecdotal BS & all the unhelpful things he COULD remember (days doing volunteer work, having a wreck - all THOSE details he could remember & describe vividly) & had nothing to do with the questions being asked was an attempt to maintain his "nice guy trying to help" routine.

MOO

ETA can’t spell

Excellent analysis.

Let me expose my utter inability to read a map and/or process logistics. What is visible, in February from the 1st Platform? Any parking lots and or access roads to them?

RA tried really hard to confuse where he parked or how he got back to it. Wanted NOTHING to do with EVERYTHING that happened after 2 pm.

New narrative: arrived at 12, left at 1:30, but no sale. No one who was there them so hom there then.

Still sticking to his story that he was on the first platform, then went and sat on the bench, then left by a route he couldn't articulate, this man who knows the bridge and trails intimately.

Curiously he has NO NARRATIVE for after the bench, for the other side of 2 pm. Nothing for 2:14, 2:20, 2:28, 2:32.... 4:47, (or whatever time ot was when SC saw him).

He wants LE to think he left from the bench. At 2 pm.

He didn't. He couldn't have.

Because witnesses placed him there at 2:14. And 4something.

The bench was the last decent thing he did that day. It's where he took leave of humanity and kicked off an hour of grave depravity.

Didn't want to talk about THAT, felt far more comfortable arguing about the bullet and the photograph because he was certain on those (wrong as he was) and extraneous Anything Else But that day from 2 pm onward.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

Excellent analysis.

Let me expose my utter inability to read a map and/or process logistics. What is visible, in February from the 1st Platform? Any parking lots and or access roads to them?

RA tried really hard to confuse where he parked or how he got back to it. Wanted NOTHING to do with EVERYTHING that happened after 2 pm.

New narrative: arrived at 12, left at 1:30, but no sale. No one who was there them so hom there then.

Still sticking to his story that he was on the first platform, then went and sat on the bench, then left by a route he couldn't articulate, this man who knows the bridge and trails intimately.

Curiously he has NO NARRATIVE for after the bench, for the other side of 2 pm. Nothing for 2:14, 2:20, 2:28, 2:32.... 4:47, (or whatever time ot was when SC saw him).

He wants LE to think he left from the bench. At 2 pm.

He didn't. He couldn't have.

Because witnesses placed him there at 2:14. And 4something.

The bench was the last decent thing he did that day. It's where he took leave of humanity and kicked off an hour of grave depravity.

Didn't want to talk about THAT, felt far more comfortable arguing about the bullet and the photograph because he was certain on those (wrong as he was) and extraneous Anything Else But that day from 2 pm onward.

JMO

Thank you. I appreciate that coming from you, a skilled wordsmith with a flair for spite for those who earn it.

I disagree with one minor detail. I doubt anything he did after leaving his mother’s was decent that day. He had his mind on one thing - it’s obvious by the fact that he still remembered the group of girls & how he noted the number of girls who fit to his liking. He remembered hair color & noticed one was being watched by an older sibling or babysitter but cannot recall any street names after all those trips to MHB over the years. He made note of the girls’ details likely because he briefly considered attacking them but 4 would be too many to control, gun or no gun & they were much too close to the trailhead.

If he in fact did sit on that bench, a curious detail he omitted when he was suddenly stricken with a conscience & spilling his guts to Wala, he was lying in wait there just as he was on platform 1.

If anything implicated him, it either couldn’t have been him, there was a mistake by someone else or he started reminiscing or just flat out lying.

MOO

 

[Megnut]

Thank you. I appreciate that coming from you, a skilled wordsmith with a flair for spite for those who earn it.

I disagree with one minor detail. I doubt anything he did after leaving his mother’s was decent that day. He had his mind on one thing - it’s obvious by the fact that he still remembered the group of girls & how he noted the number of girls who fit to his liking. He remembered hair color & noticed one was being watched by an older sibling or babysitter but cannot recall any street names after all those trips to MHB over the years. He made note of the girls’ details likely because he briefly considered attacking them but 4 would be too many to control, gun or no gun & they were much too close to the trailhead.

If he in fact did sit on that bench, a curious detail he omitted when he was suddenly stricken with a conscience & spilling his guts to Wala, he was lying in wait there just as he was on platform 1.

If anything implicated him, it either couldn’t have been him, there was a mistake by someone else or he started reminiscing or just flat out lying.

MOO

You are right, and I would like to rewrite my post to correct it.

In one of his one statements, he said he wouldn't commit a crime like this even if he wanted to. Said no innocent man EVER. Ish ish ish.

RA was a putrid man, with putrid thoughts, long before that day.

So please let me correct myself. The bench detail was the last detail he was willing to share because everything thst came after it was apparantly what he'd do because he wanted to.

He absolutely sized up the juveniles, the littlest one off his radar, the other three interesting. In a way no decent 40some year old man would. So creepy it wasn't lost on them. IMO he sized up BB too. Of course she didn't know why he was there or what he had guzzled his beers for. She just observed that he seemed to be waiting.... just not for her.

Too old.

But then he saw two little girls and he knew what he was going to do. Get behind them. Trap them on the far side of the bridge. Scare them into compliance with a gun. Force them to undress. And whatever else he ... 18 minutes of terror. He was never going to let them live.

He's still not talking about those 18 minutes. Which means it's really bad...

He is really bad.

The bench was just where he took leave of the truth.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

There is no bench because the witness saw him on the platform, the turned around and passed L & A immediately on the trail at the slight bend in the trail between the Mears parking area and the MHB.
At the bend, as it is an old RR track the trail opens up straight with complete eyeshot of trail and the bridge off into the distance.
They saw him, he saw them.

 

[Megnut]

There is no bench because the witness saw him on the platform, the turned around and passed L & A immediately on the trail at the slight bend in the trail between the Mears parking area and the MHB.
At the bend, as it is an old RR track the trail opens up straight with complete eyeshot of trail and the bridge off into the distance.
They saw him, he saw them.

That's what I've been trying to articulate, only poorly. It's how he brackets the day. Sat on the bench. Left. It's not about whether he did or did sit on any bench. It's where his narrative has no more narration, and it is glaring. And the implications are staggering

18 minutes. Alone with a man who won't stop until he's slashed their necks with a boxcutter, up close, and then watched them die slowly. 18 minutes with someone unafraid to kill.

He didn't get away with murder but he did get away with whatever he did for those 18 minutes. To two little girls.

He might look harmless to some but he is the worst kind of dangerous.

JMO

 

[somequestions]

I thought the lie Richard Allen told about sitting on the bench that overlooks the creek near the 505 trail at the Mears parking entrance was a believable lie because of BB's bathroom break when she left to go to the library.

It made me think that Abby and Libby arrived in the sedan around the same time as BB arrived back from her bathroom break and that when Richard Allen left the 505 bench, he saw those vehicles and was ahead of BB and left walking down the trail. Based on the location of the bench facing away from the Mears parking lot, it means he had to get up, turn around, look and then start walking back towards the Freedom Bridge.

I think I believed it because it came off as a truthful story, even if he made it all up.

 

[INfisherman]

I thought the lie Richard Allen told about sitting on the bench that overlooks the creek near the 505 trail at the Mears parking entrance was a believable lie because of BB's bathroom break when she left to go to the library.

It made me think that Abby and Libby arrived in the sedan around the same time as BB arrived back from her bathroom break and that when Richard Allen left the 505 bench, he saw those vehicles and was ahead of BB and left walking down the trail. Based on the location of the bench facing away from the Mears parking lot, it means he had to get up, turn around, look and then start walking back towards the Freedom Bridge.

I think I believed it because it came off as a truthful story, even if he made it all up.

Her bathroom break was before RA arrived at the trails. She was on her last lap around the time RA arrived, followed by A & L. This was corroborated with BB’s Fitbit data.

RA’s timestamp doesn’t add up with the witness timestamps, which was backed up with device evidence (photos, SM posts, Fitbit data). There’s one of the first indications he was lying. He didn’t seem to be lying about much in 2017 other than he likely claimed to not see the girls & by sheer luck his tip (time he was there) was overlooked. The lies started to come about mostly in 2022, after LE came knocking 5 long years later. I’m sure it was a desperation move as he’d probably figured he’d gotten away with it after those 5 years & was caught off guard.

When I first watched the 2022 interviews, I felt like he was a good liar. The more I watch the first one with SM & TL, I notice how much he’s avoiding directly answering their questions & inserting unnecessary details; rambling on about things which are just disconnected & have nothing to do with 13FEB17. When he does answer questions, it’s like his answers are given in multiple choice fashion. To me, something just seems off with his manner of answering their questions once they start digging into that dreadful day. I also notice glances up at the camera - very subtle. Just odd little things.

He also kind of avoids discussing the murders in general & the girls & never addresses how that day might have impacted him - things like, "oh I’ll never forget that day" or "those poor girls, I wish I could have been more helpful or been there to do something" or "it bothers me I almost passed a killer". I think that’s odd & an indication how he’s trying to avoid speaking about anything to do with that day other than him being in the trails because he already admitted to it & cannot reverse it. He messed up by trying to be sly & change his timing, which was the only thing he could do to remove himself from the equation. He probably knew they had the phone evidence from the video by then.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Her bathroom break was before RA arrived at the trails. She was on her last lap around the time RA arrived, followed by A & L. This was corroborated with BB’s Fitbit data.

RA’s timestamp doesn’t add up with the witness timestamps, which was backed up with device evidence (photos, SM posts, Fitbit data). There’s one of the first indications he was lying. He didn’t seem to be lying about much in 2017 other than he likely claimed to not see the girls & by sheer luck his tip (time he was there) was overlooked. The lies started to come about mostly in 2022, after LE came knocking 5 long years later. I’m sure it was a desperation move as he’d probably figured he’d gotten away with it after those 5 years & was caught off guard.

When I first watched the 2022 interviews, I felt like he was a good liar. The more I watch the first one with SM & TL, I notice how much he’s avoiding directly answering their questions & inserting unnecessary details; rambling on about things which are just disconnected & have nothing to do with 13FEB17. When he does answer questions, it’s like his answers are given in multiple choice fashion. To me, something just seems off with his manner of answering their questions once they start digging into that dreadful day. I also notice glances up at the camera - very subtle. Just odd little things.

He also kind of avoids discussing the murders in general & the girls & never addresses how that day might have impacted him - things like, "oh I’ll never forget that day" or "those poor girls, I wish I could have been more helpful or been there to do something" or "it bothers me I almost passed a killer". I think that’s odd & an indication how he’s trying to avoid speaking about anything to do with that day other than him being in the trails because he already admitted to it & cannot reverse it. He messed up by trying to be sly & change his timing, which was the only thing he could do to remove himself from the equation. He probably knew they had the phone evidence from the video by then.

<RSBM for focus> Not nitpicking but you mentioned:


He didn’t seem to be lying about much in 2017 other than he likely claimed to not see the girls & by sheer luck his tip (time he was there) was overlooked.

RA actually told Dulin in his first contact in 2017 that he did see the 3 (4 if you count the little) girls on the Freedom Trail and identified one in particular as being taller and having dark or brown hair. (creepy he would admit to noticing that IMO) DD made a note on his tip scrap paper to find out about the girls and gave the MIED number for RA's phone that day. Ironic that was the only phone LE didn't find in the 2022 search.

I don't blame DD as much, he was tasked to verifying tip information and then turned it over to CC LE , ISP, FBI to follow up on, he wasn't actively investigating the case IMO. I'm sure he interviewed many people during that time and probably felt that LE had checked out RA's statement and cleared him by some means.

I just thank the heavens that the sicko child predator is behind bars for the rest of his miserable life.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

<RSBM for focus> Not nitpicking but you mentioned:


He didn’t seem to be lying about much in 2017 other than he likely claimed to not see the girls & by sheer luck his tip (time he was there) was overlooked.

RA actually told Dulin in his first contact in 2017 that he did see the 3 (4 if you count the little) girls on the Freedom Trail and identified one in particular as being taller and having dark or brown hair. (creepy he would admit to noticing that IMO) DD made a note on his tip scrap paper to find out about the girls and gave the MIED number for RA's phone that day. Ironic that was the only phone LE didn't find in the 2022 search.

I don't blame DD as much, he was tasked to verifying tip information and then turned it over to CC LE , ISP, FBI to follow up on, he wasn't actively investigating the case IMO. I'm sure he interviewed many people during that time and probably felt that LE had checked out RA's statement and cleared him by some means.

I just thank the heavens that the sicko child predator is behind bars for the rest of his miserable life.

JMO

Sorry, poor wording on my part. I was referring to the victims.

I think the only thing DD may have screwed up was incorrectly calling CPS the old Farm Bureau building, which he mentioned during the trial.

 

[Boxer]

It's worth noting too that the image of BG that was released, the 2 second video even, shows a very large RA.

I think he thought it IMPOSSIBLE to be captured THAT size by Libby because he thinks HE WOULD HAVE SEEN HER PHONE. And he knows he didn't. Not once. Not the whole time he was forcing them off the bridge, down the hill, not while forced to undress, not while crossing the river, not when he murdered them.

Yes, there was audio. GDTH. He knew he did it, knew where he was when he said it. No phone. He was looking right at them.

He long ago decided it had to be trail cam of some sort. Because IT COULDN'T HAVE come from the girls' phone. There is a huge confession in that, Doubters! He was CERTAIN that image didn't come from their phone because he was RIGHT THERE and didn't see a phone. That's not BG saying that, that RA saying I was there, it didn't come from their phone BC I WOULD HAVE SEEN A PHONE.

RA thought he was right. Didn't come from their phone because they didn't have a phone. Just like his insistence about the bullet. He knew he'd never FIRED a gun there. Too dumb to argue smartly.

Thought LE was trying to trick him. But he was the one putting the puzzle together, with the lies he told, the things he said.

He boxed himself in all by himself.

JMO

Yes. And that is the thing, murderers are mostly stupid people who decide murder is the answer to their problem.
Sometimes they get lucky and get away with it.
The luck in this case was manufactured in fundamentally shoddy police work but it can be other factors too.

 

[Megnut]

Given that it took them a minute to create a center command, you'd think they'd gather those who did interviews and review those tips again, looking specifically for anyone inserting himself into the investigation. A local. They profiled it correctly.

RA capitalized wholesale on his friendly accommodating insistence on meeting anywhere but inside.

He couldn't have known his interview would be lost and forgotten but he didn't want anyone seeing him at the police station. Nope, didn't want neighbors or coworkers giving him the side-eye. He probably thought he sounded incredibly helpful and harmless saying he didn't see two girls but only saw three. Almost as if he said, I didn't see any 'two girls' unless it was part of '3'.

He didn't realize however that by confirming the juveniles' recall (and BB's too, in admitting he was on the bridge), he confessed.

He confessed to being the only male in the vicinity of the bridge dressed as he was. Signed, sealed and delivered by Libby.

JMO