GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #220

[somequestions]

He likely told them what he saw as he drove by Mears on 300N on his way to park at the CPS building. He may have also glanced up that way on his way to the bridge. He’s checking to see if he’s alone so he can go hunting. Whether he sat on a bench or not matters little in the end.

I seriously doubt I’d anything he told LE after passing the group of girls was 100% truthful. He remembers this group of girls but can’t recall where he parked or any street or road names in the surrounding area, after having fished & mushroom hunted the area for years & telling LE he took his family out there often? I have a hard time believing that.

MOO

I considered the possibility that Richard Allen saw the SUV and sedan at the Mears parking area when he passed the area in his car around 1:27pm according to the trail exhibits. According to Richard Allen during his interrogation, this is why he did not park there, because there were cars there at the Mears parking area and the Mears people did not want people parking there so he avoided parking at that parking area if he could. I think Richard Allen could be misremembering, but I think the Mears parking area was either empty or only had a sedan in it when he passed by in his car at around 1:27pm.

BB left the Mears parking area in her SUV at about 1:15pm and did not return until 1:46pm.

I think it is more likely Richard Allen saw the SUV and sedan as he was walking by the Mears parking lot on the way to the Monon High Bridge. If he enters the trail at around 1:30pm and passes the three girls, and BB arrives back at the Mears parking entrance at around 1:46pm, that means it would take him about 15 minutes to walk to the Mears parking area and pass it.

The main problem with that theory that many people will point out is it would mean BB would still have to be in her SUV or not back from the bathroom break yet if seeing the SUV is made up. If Richard Allen walks by the Mears parking entrance and sees her SUV then she would still have to be sitting in her SUV or else she would have been ahead of Richard Allen walking on the trail to the Monon High Bridge.

 

[somequestions]

One question I will always wonder about this case is how did Richard Allen drive home after the murders? We know he did not drive back the way he came from or else his 2016 black Ford Focus would have been captured on the Hooser Harvest Store surveillance video at a little after 4pm when he left.

If there is surveillance video from numerous businesses along Main Street in Delphi, Indiana, on February 13, 2017, why did the prosecution not use the surveillance videos? Did it not make it into evidence at trial?

SC says she saw a muddy and blood man walking on 300 N at around 3:56pm. Richard Allen's 2016 black Ford Focus is the only one registered in Carroll County, Indiana. If that vehicle is recorded driving down Main Street in Delphi at any time after 4pm on February 13, 2017, I think would be great evidence. Not only would it help corroborate the timeline, but it would also help corroborate one of his confessions. He confessed that after the murders he drove to the CVS and disposed of the murder weapon, a box cutter, in the CVS dumpster. Richard Allen worked at CVS. I thought that was strange someone on their day off would go to the one place where people are most likely to recognize them in order to dispose of the box cutter.

There is a third option for how Richard Allen drove home that day. He took the extension of 300 N directly south to Main Street, but instead of making a right hand turn to go into town he makes a left hand turn to get onto SR 25. Then he follows SR 25 around the outskirts of Delphi to US 421 exit and gets off to go back north to where his house is located. This avoids going through downtown Delphi.

 

[FromGermany1]

One question I will always wonder about this case is how did Richard Allen drive home after the murders? We know he did not drive back the way he came from or else his 2016 black Ford Focus would have been captured on the Hooser Harvest Store surveillance video at a little after 4pm when he left.

If there is surveillance video from numerous businesses along Main Street in Delphi, Indiana, on February 13, 2017, why did the prosecution not use the surveillance videos? Did it not make it into evidence at trial?

SC says she saw a muddy and blood man walking on 300 N at around 3:56pm. Richard Allen's 2016 black Ford Focus is the only one registered in Carroll County, Indiana. If that vehicle is recorded driving down Main Street in Delphi at any time after 4pm on February 13, 2017, I think would be great evidence. Not only would it help corroborate the timeline, but it would also help corroborate one of his confessions. He confessed that after the murders he drove to the CVS and disposed of the murder weapon, a box cutter, in the CVS dumpster. Richard Allen worked at CVS. I thought that was strange someone on their day off would go to the one place where people are most likely to recognize them in order to dispose of the box cutter.

There is a third option for how Richard Allen drove home that day. He took the extension of 300 N directly south to Main Street, but instead of making a right hand turn to go into town he makes a left hand turn to get onto SR 25. Then he follows SR 25 around the outskirts of Delphi to US 421 exit and gets off to go back north to where his house is located. This avoids going through downtown Delphi.

I'm just remembering the statement by police, that the killer "got around quickly". Why/how was it known to police; where was something seen/noticed (as a prove) and what was seen/noticed?

 

[PawneeDew]

I wonder if it is because they never released the video with Abby in for reference/size. So many people argued that he was tall because there was nothing you could see that confirmed his size. In my opinion, I always thought he was pretty short but others believed he was tall.

One thing that really intrigues me about the interview is LE are literally giving him an out every time they ask if he loaned his gun out to anyone else or if someone else could have taken his gun. He could have easily lied and said yes. He just doesn't though. I really don't understand that. Unless he is just trying to see what LE have on him and by that point, it is too late.

Maybe, subconsciously, he wanted to be caught...

 

[PawneeDew]

Watching the video of the interview when KA was present, I was surprised by the interactions/demeanor between RA and his wife.
In the FB posts/video of the two that I watched when her FB was still open, RA always seemed aggravated/angry with her , as if he could hardly tolerate her at all while she appeared cheerful and loving towards him.
I'm just curious about others impressions of this. Not that it matters and of course we can't understand the dynamics between people from FB, I just always got the impression of Richard Allen being a thoroughly unpleasant @$$hole, tbh.
He is also highly manipulative and comes off as a pathological liar and a man use to being placated by the women in his life.
Basically a very spoiled little man used to gaslighting and manipulating the women in his life to get his way.
He also gave me the impression of a person with an extremely volatile temper when things don't go his way.
Just curious about what everyone else thought.

I think you're spot-on! Maybe narcissistic?

 

[PawneeDew]

Watching the video of the interview when KA was present, I was surprised by the interactions/demeanor between RA and his wife.
In the FB posts/video of the two that I watched when her FB was still open, RA always seemed aggravated/angry with her , as if he could hardly tolerate her at all while she appeared cheerful and loving towards him.
I'm just curious about others impressions of this. Not that it matters and of course we can't understand the dynamics between people from FB, I just always got the impression of Richard Allen being a thoroughly unpleasant @$$hole, tbh.
He is also highly manipulative and comes off as a pathological liar and a man use to being placated by the women in his life.
Basically a very spoiled little man used to gaslighting and manipulating the women in his life to get his way.
He also gave me the impression of a person with an extremely volatile temper when things don't go his way.
Just curious about what everyone else thought.

I think you're spot-on! Maybe narcissistic?

 

[PawneeDew]

Watching the video of the interview when KA was present, I was surprised by the interactions/demeanor between RA and his wife.
In the FB posts/video of the two that I watched when her FB was still open, RA always seemed aggravated/angry with her , as if he could hardly tolerate her at all while she appeared cheerful and loving towards him.
I'm just curious about others impressions of this. Not that it matters and of course we can't understand the dynamics between people from FB, I just always got the impression of Richard Allen being a thoroughly unpleasant @$$hole, tbh.
He is also highly manipulative and comes off as a pathological liar and a man use to being placated by the women in his life.
Basically a very spoiled little man used to gaslighting and manipulating the women in his life to get his way.
He also gave me the impression of a person with an extremely volatile temper when things don't go his way.
Just curious about what everyone else thought.

I have unfortunately had experience with this type... .

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Maybe, subconsciously, he wanted to be caught...

I think this was a question he wasn’t expecting to hear.
If he says he did lend it out, he would have to give LE that person’s name. LE would surely contact them and verify that RA was lying and that would be a lot worse than leaving it hanging in ambiguity.
I don’t think RA had any feelings of any kind that he wanted to be caught. He may have have been tortured a bit by what he had done, given his internet searches, but it never drove him to turn himself in or to plant “breadcrumbs” that would have led LE to him. He could have confessed straight up right after his arrest, but he didn’t.

 

[Bekind89]

I have unfortunately had experience with this type... .

I'm very sorry and I understand because I did as well.
I'm almost every photo or video of them on FB, he is constantly scowling at her while she smiles and laughs, idk, trying to ignore or placate him?

 

[FromGermany1]

I'm very sorry and I understand because I did as well.
I'm almost every photo or video of them on FB, he is constantly scowling at her while she smiles and laughs, idk, trying to ignore or placate him?

I had the feeling, that she, in her naive way, didn't take him seriously at all.

 

[INfisherman]

One question I will always wonder about this case is how did Richard Allen drive home after the murders? We know he did not drive back the way he came from or else his 2016 black Ford Focus would have been captured on the Hooser Harvest Store surveillance video at a little after 4pm when he left.

If there is surveillance video from numerous businesses along Main Street in Delphi, Indiana, on February 13, 2017, why did the prosecution not use the surveillance videos? Did it not make it into evidence at trial?

SC says she saw a muddy and blood man walking on 300 N at around 3:56pm. Richard Allen's 2016 black Ford Focus is the only one registered in Carroll County, Indiana. If that vehicle is recorded driving down Main Street in Delphi at any time after 4pm on February 13, 2017, I think would be great evidence. Not only would it help corroborate the timeline, but it would also help corroborate one of his confessions. He confessed that after the murders he drove to the CVS and disposed of the murder weapon, a box cutter, in the CVS dumpster. Richard Allen worked at CVS. I thought that was strange someone on their day off would go to the one place where people are most likely to recognize them in order to dispose of the box cutter.

There is a third option for how Richard Allen drove home that day. He took the extension of 300 N directly south to Main Street, but instead of making a right hand turn to go into town he makes a left hand turn to get onto SR 25. Then he follows SR 25 around the outskirts of Delphi to US 421 exit and gets off to go back north to where his house is located. This avoids going through downtown Delphi.

If there were security camera footage of him driving around town at a crucial time & defense failed to bring that up at trial, that’s on them & would be another major misstep on the state’s behalf in missing something like that. I doubt the state had anything exonerating RA in their discovery. I thought when Mullin testified, he mentioned something about no security camera footage in town showed RA GOING TO the trails that day - that’s all I seem to recall. As far as the state is concerned, they probably don’t really care which way he went after the crimes. They likely were mainly concerned with everything leading up to the crime.

RA only stated he got rid of evidence at CVS, he didn’t indicate when, at least not in any trial coverage that I saw. He simply stated he threw the box cutter in a dumpster at CVS. Could have been his next day at work or much later.

I tend to believe he returned home using the route you outlined in the last paragraph - getting onto 25 somewhere & driving south down to the 421 exit.

JMO

 

[Justice101]

Did anyone see the actual full-length video of BG released today? It's now on youtube. I don't know if it was legally released or leaked.

I did.

Those poor girls had to be terrified but were trying to hold it together.

 

[somequestions]

If there were security camera footage of him driving around town at a crucial time & defense failed to bring that up at trial, that’s on them & would be another major misstep on the state’s behalf in missing something like that. I doubt the state had anything exonerating RA in their discovery. I thought when Mullin testified, he mentioned something about no security camera footage in town showed RA GOING TO the trails that day - that’s all I seem to recall. As far as the state is concerned, they probably don’t really care which way he went after the crimes. They likely were mainly concerned with everything leading up to the crime.

RA only stated he got rid of evidence at CVS, he didn’t indicate when, at least not in any trial coverage that I saw. He simply stated he threw the box cutter in a dumpster at CVS. Could have been his next day at work or much later.

I tend to believe he returned home using the route you outlined in the last paragraph - getting onto 25 somewhere & driving south down to the 421 exit.

JMO

I thought the prosecution would try to use the surveillance tapes that were collected from the businesses to try to find Richard Allen's black 2016 Ford Focus SE driving sometime after 4 pm. I think that would have been great evidence. There would be less wondering about how Richard Allen got back to his car after the murders. It would help corroborate SC's story of seeing a muddy and blood man walking down 300 N at around 3:56pm and it would disprove all of Richard Allen's timelines.

If the prosecution had found a way to show him leaving by being seen on surveillance camera driving around after 4pm on February 13, 2017, that would be very persuasive regarding Richard Allen's guilt in this case.

I suppose we will have to assume that he took 300 N to Main Street to get on SR 25 to then drive to the US 421 exit to get home and somehow managed to avoid the surveillance cameras. I would have been interested in that route he took home that day and specifically the time his vehicle was seen driving on that route home. In my opinion, Richard Allen had to drive some route home that day.

 

[Megnut]

We don't know when KA laid eyes on RA that day.

We know he told her not to join the search. I would like to hear how he framed that.

Perhaps that conversation wasn't in person...

After being seen by SC, perhaps RA abandoned his car altogether, choosing instead to walk home. If KA was away, he could shower, change, masquerade as a searcher and retrieve his car. It should explain how no blood was transfered into it, and it could explain why they had no cctv of him leaving, if he drove away outside their video range.

Alternately, nothing stopping him from stripping down next to his car and bundling up his bloody clothes. No one around to see him do it.

People were gathering however so maybe he made his own road home.

Not captured walking past HH? Did we ever learn what kind of camera it was? Continuous or motion feed? Perhaps a pedestrian wouldn't trip it. Easy enough though for him to leave the road and reach his car less directly.

If anybody knows the roads and routes in and out of the area, it's RA. Chatty Cathy boasting about them... until it came time to remember which ones he used that day.

In the end, it doesn't matter. Libby's video planted him on the bridge, ultimately convicting him.

JMO

 

[shonyakay]

One question I will always wonder about this case is how did Richard Allen drive home after the murders? We know he did not drive back the way he came from or else his 2016 black Ford Focus would have been captured on the Hooser Harvest Store surveillance video at a little after 4pm when he left.

If there is surveillance video from numerous businesses along Main Street in Delphi, Indiana, on February 13, 2017, why did the prosecution not use the surveillance videos? Did it not make it into evidence at trial?

SC says she saw a muddy and blood man walking on 300 N at around 3:56pm. Richard Allen's 2016 black Ford Focus is the only one registered in Carroll County, Indiana. If that vehicle is recorded driving down Main Street in Delphi at any time after 4pm on February 13, 2017, I think would be great evidence. Not only would it help corroborate the timeline, but it would also help corroborate one of his confessions. He confessed that after the murders he drove to the CVS and disposed of the murder weapon, a box cutter, in the CVS dumpster. Richard Allen worked at CVS. I thought that was strange someone on their day off would go to the one place where people are most likely to recognize them in order to dispose of the box cutter.

There is a third option for how Richard Allen drove home that day. He took the extension of 300 N directly south to Main Street, but instead of making a right hand turn to go into town he makes a left hand turn to get onto SR 25. Then he follows SR 25 around the outskirts of Delphi to US 421 exit and gets off to go back north to where his house is located. This avoids going through downtown Delphi.

The defense was given all of the surveillance tapes through town as well.

The CVS dumpster is behind the building but
I am not aware that RA ever specified when exactly he threw the box cutter in there, except that it was after the crime. Which doesn't necessarily mean that it was the same day of the murders. It could have been a day or two later when he went back to work. Remember he said a day or two after the crime, when he got off of work, his wife told him that LE were asking for anybody that had been out at the trails that day to let them know and this is why he self-reported.

 

[Yesiamapirate]

Did anyone see the actual full-length video of BG released today? It's now on youtube. I don't know if it was legally released or leaked.

I did.

Those poor girls had to be terrified but were trying to hold it together.

Can you post a link? I can’t seem to find it. TIA!!

 

[FromGermany1]

We know he told her not to join the search. I would like to hear how he framed that.

Oh yes, I want to know also! "Blablabla blabla - I love you."

<modsnip - no link>Seems to have been less dangerous for himself than her being on the search group, finding something pointing to her own husband possibly.

 

[shonyakay]

I think it is more likely Richard Allen saw the SUV and sedan as he was walking by the Mears parking lot on the way to the Monon High Bridge. If he enters the trail at around 1:30pm and passes the three girls, and BB arrives back at the Mears parking entrance at around 1:46pm, that means it would take him about 15 minutes to walk to the Mears parking area and pass it.

The main problem with that theory that many people will point out is it would mean BB would still have to be in her SUV or not back from the bathroom break yet if seeing the SUV is made up. If Richard Allen walks by the Mears parking entrance and sees her SUV then she would still have to be sitting in her SUV or else she would have been ahead of Richard Allen walking on the trail to the Monon High Bridge.

I don't want to sound like a broken record but...

1:26 p.m.
The group of girls' take a picture on a bench East of the Freedom Bridge. They then begin walking toward the Freedom Bridge to walk back to their homes.

1:27 p.m.
RA is going westbound past the HHS to go park.
He parks by an old building and enters the trails through the Freedom Bridge Trailhead. Meanwhile the girls' are still making their way to the Freedom Bridge.

1:30 p.m. - 1:40 p.m.
Just East of the Freedom Bridge, not too far from the Freedom Bridge trailhead, the group of girls' see Bridge Guy entering the trails and RA sees the group of girls' leaving the trails after he arrived.

Shortly before 1:46 p.m.
Probably 1:43 p.m. ish
BB is driving under the bridge that goes over old state road 25.
She sees the group of girls' walking westbound on the bridge.
That bridge is just westbound of Freedom Bridge so it would not have taken the girls' very long to walk there after they crossed Freedom Bridge westbound.

1:46 p.m.
BB goes eastbound past HHS to park at the Mears' entrance. She sees no other cars.
I believe she exits her vehicle right away..
Probably around 1:47 p.m.

1:47 p.m. to 1:48 p.m.
KG arrives with Abby and Libby. Libby unplugs her IPhone from KG's car. This is when Libby probably grabbed her "Delphi Swimming" hoodie from KG's car. KG and Libby said bye and that they loved each other. KG briefly watched them walk towards the trail intersection. KG seen an SUV parked.

1:49
KG is seen leaving westbound past HHS.

If it takes around 15 minutes to walk from Freedom Bridge to the trail intersection then it fits that Allen (walking with a purpose) may have been walking past the intersection, or sitting on the bench that overlooks the creek, when he saw two cars parked at the Mears' entrance.

Another option is he seen an SUV and Sedan at the Mears' entrance when he was walking down 300 N and then left through the field after Sarah Carbaugh saw him around 3:57 p.m.

 

[shonyakay]

I think this was a question he wasn’t expecting to hear.
If he says he did lend it out, he would have to give LE that person’s name. LE would surely contact them and verify that RA was lying and that would be a lot worse than leaving it hanging in ambiguity.
I don’t think RA had any feelings of any kind that he wanted to be caught. He may have have been tortured a bit by what he had done, given his internet searches, but it never drove him to turn himself in or to plant “breadcrumbs” that would have led LE to him. He could have confessed straight up right after his arrest, but he didn’t.

I think he was giving up and wanting to lift the burden of the obvious anxiety (based on his searches) that LE could come find him at any minute.

Based on what Mullin said (about 3 years) 2019, is when he would have put a gun in his mouth threatening to kill himself. He also spent one week in a mental institution.

2019 was the Presser when Carter talked directly to the killer. I'm not sure if that suicidal incident occurred before or after that presser though.

I believe he wasn't going to admit to what he did at that time because he cared too much of what people thought of him.

 

[Megnut]

Oh yes, I want to know also! "Blablabla blabla - I love you."

<modsnip - no link> Seems to have been less dangerous for himself than her being on the search group, finding something pointing to her own husband possibly.

I can't help but wonder if KA was away... and RA didn't want her to return. He had laundry to do.

So it wasn't as much about searching/not searching as it was about him needing more time to cover up what he'd done.

JMO