Roselvr
Ask me how to get your loved one in NamUs
There's a compiled list from ColdCaseMan you should read. He was the detective at the time so there is some answers/ info you may find useful without having to read through all of the threads. Its from the most recent (which has been awhile) to his oldest post, so it may be easier to start at the bottom. I encourage you to read all the threads too when you have spare time, its a interesting read!
There is a PM/Ruleouts list that Outofthedark started.
I really wish they would get Lyle into Namus!
Posts by Coldcaseman in WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #2 -
09-26-2006, 10:26 AM
I was the Detective who investigated the Lyle Stevik case. I just retired a few months ago, and just found this site. To answer some previous posts: Lyle arrived by bus, possibly one that came from Port Angeles (south), but a bus came up from Aberdeen (northbound) and arrived about the same time. Neither driver was sure if he was on their bus. He arrived with no luggage, and there was no luggage, clothing, etc. in the motel dumpster. The book "you must remember this" deals with the main character considering suicide. I often if the web info from "Steven" concerning suspension hanging was Lyle. He may have come from Canada, as the clerk recalled that he had "a slight Canadian accent". The fact he wrote the word "suicide" on a piece of paper I found in the trash leads me to believe he wrote a letter home, telling someone of his intentions, that he was going to disappear, so they aren't looking for him. He may have been dying, or suffered from depression, as he lost a lot of weight, although nothing was found at the autopsy. I saw no indications that he ever wore a wedding ring. His eyes are open in the photos because I opened them, to make him look as alive as possible for the photo. He didn't tape the pillows to the wall on the coat rack, they were wedged between the rack and the wall. This was a very unusual case. I still work on it, just to make sure Lyles loved ones know what happened to him and where he is buried. I appreciate any help.
09-26-2006, 05:48 PM
Yes, I was the one that worked the scene. He used his leather belt, and it was fashioned similar to the one depicted in stevens story. He had placed a washcloth between the belt and his neck, to make it more comfortable. He then bend down, and his knees were almost touching the floor. Everything was consistant with suicide. Lividity was consistant with suspension hanging. There was no swelling on his face. The eye appears swollen due to my attempt to open his eyes and make him look "alive". All of his clothing were brands found in North America. I found nothing foreign. Another point that wasn't in the flier was that the $20 bills he left for the room were crisp, as though he had just gotten them from a bank. There is no bank nearby. As for Meridian Idaho, I sent his photos to the Meridian Police Department. They showed them to the employees, and no one recognized him. Neither did the Police. I'm thinking that he stopped there on his way through. I did a nationwide search for Lyle Stevik. I did find a Lyle Stevick in Oregon, who was still alive and well. I spent many hours on this case, even though there was no crime committed. Even though I believe that he has notified his family that there was no need to look for him, I want to be sure. He is buried in an unmarked grave at Fern Hill cemetary in Aberdeen, and that is not right.
09-26-2006, 06:01 PM
Amanda Park is on the North Shore of Lake Quinault, part of it is in the Olympic National park. It is in the Northern part of Grays Harbor county, about 25 miles North of Aberdeen/Hoquiam. I'm not surprised there isn't much about the motel on the internet. It is a small motel, what I would call a no tell-motel. The clerk didn't even ask to see Lyles identification, she just had him fill out his name and address on the back of the payment envelope. If you are from the East coast, you would think you couldn't get much further West. We would actually get people from other parts of the country who would come to Grays Harbor to commit suicide. It is their attempt to disappear, to keep the suicide as far away from loved ones as possible.
09-26-2006, 06:14 PM
Go to thedailyworld.com. In the archives search field type "youmans". There is an article from Feb. on Lyles case. You can also go to seattletimes.com. In archives type "youmans dna". It is an article about my cold cases (not Lyles, but cold murder cases). I've never turned down help from any source. I would just love to find out who Lyle was.
09-26-2006, 07:00 PM
He has some sparse stubble, but had shaved within a few days. The age of 25 is an educated guess. He was at least 20, due to his dentition. His clothes and boots were in very good shape. Very clean and not damaged or worn. I could tell he had worn the belt for along time, as all of the belts notches had been used, as though he was losing weight, and kept tightening his belt. His clothing wasn't soiled from wearing a long time. I believe he discarded his belongings before he reached the motel, or in another dumpster besides the motels. The clerk thought he might have had a backpack, but wasn't sure. It's interesting that he asked to change his room, as the first one is next to a trailer park, and there was alot of noise. He took the bed spread off of the bed and draped it over the window curtain to insure no light would leak out. I've worked many suicides, but I've never had one who made sure his bill was paid. Suicide is a very selfish act, where the person is mostly thinking about themselves.
Yes, that is a small mole on the left side of his chin. That, plus the fact that he doesn't have ear lobes (the photos don't show that) makes it easy to go through photos of missing persons.
9-26-2006, 07:53 PM
No, just his underwear. He was in a unit on the end of the motel, and they moved him closer to the middle. There weren't many people checked in, and none of them remembered him. It was noisy in the first unit. I checked every web site I could find on missing persons to compare pictures. That doesn't mean I missed him in one of those. It was wierd that his clothes were clean, he was clean, and he took care of his teeth.
9-27-2006, 12:53 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't explain the term "missing ear lobes". They weren't removed, he never had them. Most people have lobes that droop (and seem to droop more when you get old!) A few people have no "lobe", which would make it tough to wear earrings. There was no book recovered, I found the connection to the book through a Google search. I bought the book through Amazon. I always felt Lyle was from a middle-upper income family. No signs he was involved in manual labor, no injuries, well read, articulate, clean, took care of his appearance, etc. I'm not saying that people from lower incomes don't have those traits, that was my impression.
09-27-2006, 03:59 PM
I could find no callouses on his hands, or scrapes or scars. Fingernails weren't chipped or broken, and no indications of a manicure. No tan lines either. During the time he spent there, he purchased a copy of the local newspaper, and probably some food (although no one recalled seeing him). I located some change in the drawer of the desk in the room. He had paid for one night, but when the maid came by the next day, he told the maid that he was staying a few more days. I think he was finishing up some loose ends, writing a letter, etc. I think he had been dead about 24 hours when we found him.
9-27-2006, 07:16 PM
There was no place to eat at the motel, but there are places nearby. I don't recall anything being in his stomach at the autopsy. There was no wrappers from anything he might have purchased in his trash can. He took whatever change he had in his pocket, and put it in a desk drawer. After he wrote the note "for the room" he put the cap on the pen, and put the pen in his right front pants pocket. Habits. You're not even aware you're doing them
9-27-2006, 08:52 PM
Concerning the shape of the skull, Native American and Asian skulls are very similar (high cheek bones, etc.) and I believe that Lyle is at least part Native American. While I was with the Sheriffs Department, I checked the name Lyle Stevik through a variety of web sites and sources with no luck. That's not to say their isn't a Lyle Stevik out there (possibly in Canada) but I was unable to find one. Lyle has a "unibrow" which is also somewhat unusual.
As for the question posed by Scandi concerning the ridge on Lyles forehead that is not visible in the profile shot, I took the profile picture at the beginning of the autopsy. I took the face-on shot at the conclusion, after the skull had been opened. I pulled the scalp back into place in order to take that shot, and didn't see the wrinke of skin on his forehead. His forehead was smooth
Posts by Scandi
Link to post 51
Originally Posted by scandi
That's funny Annemc. as I did the same type research by Googling and also found out it is a genetic condition that causes this and happens at a certain stage of development.
Today I've been trying to figure out how to distinguish between Native American Indians as far as facial characteristics, with not much luck so far. I did come upon this study thought which is interesting in that one of the ways to distinguish if one has indian ancestry is large heavy earlobes. And I did read somewhere yesterday that often indians have a problem with hair growing on their earlobes! Anyhoo, here it is:
http://www.weyanoke.org/pdf/Clues_to... earlobes"
Link to post 53
It is something personal about it I guess, in that I know Quinalt Lake and have been to the Lodge - it is incredible - and we are talking with the investigator who opened Lyle's eyelids for his photograph so he could be ID'ed. Then he put his soal into working to that end ever since he found him that day. Pretty special if you ask me, as Coldcaseman conveys a total attitude about Lyle that has his 30 years of investigating behind it.
I think there must be certain characteristics that are particular to American Indians by their sect {? I know it is not tribe, but maybe classification of Navaho, Seminole, etc.}. I have had trouble even Googling this type of info. There is an atlas of different American Indians, and that might really help to look at photos.
Has anyone noticed his forehead? In the straight on photo it looks like it has some undulation to it. Not nobs of bone, but not pure curved bone that is smooth. I don't see that in the profile shots for some reason, so it could be shadowing.
Driving home awhile ago I stopped to let a guy cross an area, and he was very skinny and tall - over 6". I immediately thought about Lyle and from his photos it is hard to imagine him being so tall.
I also looked at the sight 'Find Missing Children, and thanks Ryno for that , and ran through all of them to get a bearing for missing young adults. I was struck how I found Lyle quite unique among the group of say 30 missing people. He just stood out vividly to me. One thing, he does look very sad in his photos.
9-27-2006, 09:33 PM
No chest hair, some hair on legs and arms. Sparse hair on his chin.
9-28-2006, 12:23 AM
His appendix scar was old. The motel isn't part of the Best Western chain. I agree he was educated. I'm not aware of Joyce Carrol Oates being required reading in High School. I believe he read it (possibly in college) and associated himself with Lyles character. In the book Lyle Stevik owned a furniture and the father of a family. He was depressed, and talked about going down into his basement, throwing a rope over a beam and hanging himself. However, he does not commit suicide. I feel our Lyle saw himself in the character. Keep it up!
9-28-2006, 10:31 AM
Determining ethnic background by facial features can be unreliable. The pathologist suggested Native American or hispanic due to facial features as well as skin tone, but it's not an exacy science. Concerning the pants, I considered that Lyle just liked to wear larger sizes, but the belt tells a different story. All of the notches were stretched and worn, with the smallest size appearing to fit his waist. As he lost weight, he tightened his belt. My belts look similar, but it's because I'm expanding. I asked my wife to read the book and give me a synopsis. She informed me that Lyle considers and contemplates suicide, but doesn't go through with it. I miscommunicated that to the reporter. Now that I'm retired, I have the time to read the bok myself.
I should add that Lyle was very thin. If he lost weight, it was over a period of time. The skin was not loose or sagging. It's possible he lost the weight due to depression. The pathologist found nothing medically wrong with him.
Coldcaseman opened the file & refresh his memory here-
9-28-2006, 09:13 PM
I'm sure glad I kept a copy of the case file. It has been awhile, and I was getting some of the facts twisted. I'll give you a timeline, and answer some of your questions. Lyle arrived at the motel on Friday, 9-14 aobut 4:30 PM. Two busses arrived at the location about the same time, and neither driver was sure if he was on board their bus. Lyle paid for one nights stay. The manager described him as polite, but didn't want to talk much. She thought he looked alittle spaced. He might have had a backpack, but the manager wasn't sure. He checked into unit#8 and took a shower. He complained that it was too noisy outside, so he was moved to unit#5. Sat. 9-15 the maid came to the door. He said that he was going to stay alittle longer, didn't need the room cleaned, but could use clean towels. Later in the day, the manager saw him pacing up and down the highway. She thought he was getting some exercise. On Sun 9-16 Lyle purchases the Sunday edition of the Daily World. The maid came by, and he sent her away. On Monday 9-17 in the morning the maid knocked on the door, but received no response. She entered the room and found him praying. He didn't talk to her, and she left. She later told the manager, who entered the room after noon and found that Lyle had hung himself. (for some reason I had recalled that he had been dead longer than that). When I arrived sometime later, rigor mortis was setting in. As for the questions: there was no alcohol or drugs in his system. The coat rack wasn't in an enclosed closet, but rather a small alcove in one corner of the living room. I never closely examined the belt, I'm making arrangements to do that. It is a leather belt with a silver colored buckly and a silver colored belt tip. It has a western look to it. I don't recall seeing any stationary in the room. That should keep you busy for awhile!
9-29-2006, 12:58 AM
I took post mortem prints and submitted them to the FBI and RCMP. The fingerprints are also in AFIS. It is possible that they weren't able to match the prints with a card on file. Just about anything is possible.
To save time; a few posts below the one above
No backpack, but I only searched around the motel. The daily World most probably had stories about the attacks. There was nothing unusual about his paper, it wasn't folded a certain way indicating he focused on anything in particular. He tossed it into a trash can. For what it is worth, there was a Gideon bible in the nightstand. There was a bookmark in John 12, 13, 14 (pages 1050-1051). I don't know if Lyle was the one that was reading that passage.
I don't think you'll have much luck, but you can go to thedailyworld.com. It's a small town paper, and the search field will only let you search for specific items. The original newspaper is in the Sheriffs Dept. evidence room, but I don't recall any specific articles. They don't have a large personal column. Concerning the stationery, if there was any, he used it all up. The note he wrote "for the room" on was actually a comment card.
I examined room#8, but nothing seemed amiss. I don't recall checking for stationery. I think he was only in that room for a short time. Long enough to take a shower. Earlier, someone was asking about the bedspread over the curtain. Lyle may have done that because he wanted a totally dark room when he sleeps. The window curtain wasn't totally light blocking, and there may have been ambient light coming in. I am impressed that so many people have taken an interest in this case. It is an unusual case, one I should have solved long ago.
09-29-2006, 04:04 PM
I've reread the report and statements from the first Deputy at the scene. He had conducted interviews with the staff. When the maid knocked on the door Monday morning, she got no response, so she opened the door. She saw the man kneeling and "thought" he was praying. She called the manager, who arrived some time later (I'm not sure of the time frame, but I don't believe it was a long time) and found him hanging from the coat rack. I'm thinking he wasn't praying, but was hanging when she saw him. I'l describe the room to you, and what the maid saw: The unit is rather small, the door is located on the West wall on the South end. The rest of the West wall has a picture window. Just inside the door, there is a desk against the South wall. At the North wall is the bed, and East of the bed is a nightstand and a chair. On the East wall (South end) there is a door leading to the bathroom. North of that is a small refrigerator, and next to that in the North corner of the wall is a small alcove that holds the metal clothes rack. Lyle is facing the East wall. When the maid looked in, she saw his back. He would have appeared to be kneeling, with his arms to his sides, and his head tilted back as though he is looking towards the ceiling. The belt is wrapped around his neck, with the buckle at the front of his throat. The belt strap goes up over his chin to the metal clothes rack, forcing his head to tilt back. We didn't reinterview the maid, but in reading her description, I believe Lyle was already dead. When I arrived several hours later, rigor and lividity was present, and I had concluded he had died sometime earlier, perhaps Sunday. Once we established that it was a suicide, my main focus was on identification.
I had sent fliers of Lyle to the Quinault Nation, and someone should have recognized him if he was a member. I had looked at the three missing people before. Robert Rock has Lyles "earlobes", but the rest of the ear is wrong.
I'm sure most of you are aware, but the center for missing adults has the photos I took of Lyle. They are much better to work with than the sketch on the Doe network. Doenetwork doesn't show actual photos of dead people (and I really worked to make Lyle look alive), One thing I didn't do was comb his hair. When I first saw him, his hair was combed straight back.
Only about 15% of people who commit suicide leave a note, which is so sad. The loved ones left behind are left with so many questions. I believe Lyle did notify his family, he just didn't leave a note for us. I have investigated several other suicides where people have come here from out of state, and had gotten rid of their identification, jewelry, etc. so they wouldn't "burden" their family with having to deal with the remains. I have always been successful in identifying them, until Lyle came along. The only lake close to the motel is Lake Quinault, which is very deep. We didn't search it, because we had no indication that a backpack was in there. Even if we did, it would be a needle in a haystack. I know of at least two people who drowned in the lake, and the bodies were never recovered. It is deep and very dark.
That's the national average, but I know from personal experience it seems less than that. When there is no note explaining why someone took their own life, the ones left behind begin second guessing, thinking they should have seen clues. People who are depressed will suddenly be more upbeat, then a week later they will kill themselves. When you are depressed, you feel that you have no control. When you come to the realization that you can control one thing (ending your life) you no longer have any worries. Things don't bother you as they once did, because you know that soon, there will be no more pain. To those around you, there is a sense of relief that you have been able to work through your depression, when in fact you should be seeking professional help.
Lyle doesn't fit the norm of the suicides I have investigated. The majority of them killed themselves at home, in their car, somewhere they feel comfortable. Very few have put this much forethought into it, which leads me to believe he is well educated. He didn't kill himself right away, he spent his last few days probably analyzing his situation. He probably read the paper to keep up on national events, such as the attacks, to confirm his decision to end his life. He may have just wanted something to read. If a person really wanted to disappear, they could walk miles into the woods (Grays Harbor is 1,900 square miles of woods). Lyle wanted his body to be found, to be taken care of, to be buried. I believe he just didn't want to burden his family. I handled a case years ago where the body of an older man was found on a hilltop outside a small town. The person had shot himself in the head. There was no identification, no jewelry, nothing. We put a description in the local paper. A woman called to tell us a male friend she grew up with had moved to Arizona years ago. The caller was friends with the mans wife, and the wife had informed the friend her husband had disappeared a month before. He left his truck, clothing, everything. We confirmed the dead man was the missing person from Arizona. Somewhere along the way, he disposed of his wallet, watch, and wedding ring, bought a bus ticket to Grays Harbor (to where he grew up years before) and killed himself. He was suffering some medical problems, and didn't want to burden his wife, so he chose to disappear. We know that Lyle isn't from Grays Harbor, but he may have lived here at one time, may have visited, or just went as far West as he could go.
10-01-2006, 01:46 PM
The maid said she "thought" Lyle was praying, but I'm sure the knew what had happened, and she called the manager. There was lividity in his hands and lower legs where the blood had settled. The eyes looked alittle puffy from pushing the eyelids open. There was no puffiness to his eyes or face when I first saw him. The crisp bills suggest he either just got them from an ATM, or had them in a wallet or packed away. He didn't have them shoved in his pocket. I don't know if the Sheriffs Department would pay for a new sketch, but I'll check. The Doenetwork did one for free (because they don't show actual pictures). I prefer the actual photo, but I understand news agencies not wanting to upset viewers. I tried to get our local paper to run Lyles photo, but they ran the sketch instead, saying the photo was too graphic, and yet the same day the sketch ran, they showed the photo of a dead Iraqi 14 year old boy. Go figure.
Scandi, the belt buckle was in the front of his throat, so the strap went up over his chin and in front of his face. Not typical, but very effective, with pressure being applied to both carotoid arteries, but not cutting off his windpipe. Livor mortis (lividity) and rigor mortis can help establish an approximate time of death. The signs begin to show about two hours after death. A better way to establish time of death is to obtain a liver temperature. The body cools at 1 1/2 degrees per hour (after a slight rise in body temperature). You can also check the potssium level in the eye fluid. There are a number of factors that can affect livor and rigor mortis (illness, room temperature or weather conditions, etc.) so, unlike what we see on tv, the best we can do is an estimate. If this had been a murder, it would have been critical to establish the time of death. Due to the circumstances, I recall we believed he had been dead around 8-12 hours, which would have been in the early morning hours. The lights were on in his room, and he put the bedspread over the window curtain so that no light was leaking out.
You guys have been coming up with some good theories. I'm the first to admit my theories may not be right. I always try to put myself in the dead persons place and imagine what I would do. It doesn't always work, as people preparing to take their own life are not thinking logically.
It appears that the article is written to entertain, but if you go to ash.spaink.net and read about Stevens suspension hanging (or search the web for steven suspension hanging), that was written to educate. Steven has carefully thought out his method of suicide, and the article was posted Sept. 11, 2001. It may have been written earlier. I can't help but wonder if Lyle is the Steven who wrote the piece.
article in question link does not work
docwho3
What do you think of this allegedly fiction post I found? The post is titled "the button" and you find it by scrolling about half way down the page or you can do a find-it search within the page for "the button". It is a post about attempting suicide in a method similar to our victem.
http://www.hotsandwich.blogspot.com/
It is a sad state of affairs when these sites are available to anyone with a computer (especially children). While I investigated Lyles death, I scoured the internet for anything that could help me identify him. That's how I ran across the ASH site. I saw they had a "favorite method of the month" for committing suicide. The method involved inhaling helium inside a plastic trash bag. About a month later, one of the local Police Departments investigated a suicide involving this method. I had never heard of it before. I don't know if the young man got the information off of the ASH site or if it was just a coincidence
We don't know if he was somehow involved with the attack on 9/11. Reports were forwarded to the FBI, in case he was connected in some way, but we never heard anything from them. I've always thought that Lyle suffered from depression, and the attacks may have been the straw that broke the camels back. I wouldn't be surprised if the national suicide rate went up in the weeks following the attacks.
When I looked at the photo, it looked like Salvatore Mourra had earlobes, but now I'm not sure. I'll try to get my office to run his name through NCIC, and get his dental records. No one mentioned that Lyle had a lazy eye.
10-04-2006, 01:12 PM
He did look very thin. His clothing seemed to be hanging on his frame (although that seems to be a popular style). The clue to me that it wasn't necessarily his style was the belt. Using all of the notches leads me to believe he lost the weight, but continued to wear the larger size
If I've done this right, you should have some photos of Lyle showing his ear, and two photos of the money he left.
Here are some of the pics that cold case man wanted to share with us.
I hope and I think that I got the ones he wanted. Any mistakes in which pics to post are most likely my own mistakes.
*Warning: Graphic Photos*
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/lyle/detlyle2.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/lyle/detlle3c.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/lyle/detlyle4.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/lyle/detlle5c.jpg
I'm trying to make arrangements to examine the belt. I don't recall seeing a manufacturers name, but I'll double check. The belt was not wide, about 1 1/2 inches. I felt the buckle had sort of a western look to it.
Lyle is laying down in both photos. He is still wearing the belt. Standard procedure is to leave the ligature on the body until it is removed by the pathologist.
I have a photocopy of them (the notes), I'll see if I can get a digital photo of them posted.
With ancient remains, there can be tell tale signs in the shape of the skull, and they could determine what tribe a person was from. Nowadays, it can be very difficult determining race, let alone a particular region or tribe with any degree of accuracy. It was felt at the time that he had some Native American features, but he also has some Caucasian ones as well.
The three main classifications are Negroid, Caucasoid, and Mongoloid. Native Americans, Hispanics, and Asians are all in the mongoloid classification. alcoholism isn't more common among one race over another.
handwriting pics
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/lyle/suicd1.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/lyle/room1b.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/lyle/regis3.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/lyle/regis2.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/lyle/regis1b.jpg
The suicide printing was slightly larger, and was more distinct. The paper was crumpled and thrown in the trash can. I had speculated that he either wrote the word out because he wasn't sure if he was spelling it right, or he had written it as a sign, so that whoever found him would know that ir was a suicide. He then realizes that it will be obvious what has happened, so he discards the note. You are right, there is a distinct change in handwriting.