Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #198

[StarryStarryNight]

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Detective Vido (Poor guy I have been misspelling his name the whole time) testified that the Wabash river search was due to KK's claims.
KK told LE that his father threw a knife in there and that he (KK) threw a cell phone in there. LE found knives and cellphones (among other items) in the river but none of them were the ones KK claimed.

This doesn't match what was reported as his testimony, reported at KK's pretrial hearing and again Aug 2024.

We have Det Vido's words, please quote them to show he is talking about the Wabash River search.

If more information is revealed later, it may clear this up. But for now, I don't see him stating what you claim.


I never said that the Wabash search was not due to a possible connection to the Delphi murders, so I don't need to convinced of it.

Richard Allen gets approval to transfer out of maximum security prison ahead of Delphi murders trial

A third day of pre-trial hearings in the Delphi murders case ended with a win for defendant Richard Allen — he will now be detained in a county jail.

www.wthr.com

 

[sunshineray]

On this eve before jury selection starts, I just wanted to mention that a group of average citizens are about to have their view of the world totally changed. They will willingly come in to do their civic duty and they will see and hear things that will forever change them. I pray for them to have strength to process what they hear and see. And also for the families that will finally come face to face with (who I believe is) the evil that took their daughters from them. They will see all the horrific things that were done to them and have to relive those days all over again.

These jurors will be tasked with determining if the evidence presented is enough to convict RA BARD. They will be sequestered away from their own families for all these weeks while they learn about the very real evil that exists in the world. I think child murder cases are likely some of the most difficult cases. The pure innocence of Abby and Libby in life and in their day walking on the trails... just shattered. I don't think we even get the full grasp of it just watching from the outside. We know it's horrific, but these jurors will KNOW it.

The day is finally here and while it's good and it's what we've all been waiting for, it's going to be hard for us too when we finally really hear exactly what was done. These things are usually worse than we even understand and I don't doubt this case will be exactly that. Horrific.

Don't forget to take care of yourselves also during this trial. We are all human and while we all feel different ways about what has transpired, what each side has done or not done, etc.. we have to be prepared to actually know the details too.

It's sobering and just so tragic </3

 

[sunshineray]

Thanks. I've seen those.
Do you know if TMS talked about any other witnesses aside from the ones you listed?

I don't think there's a list there?

 

[snooptroop88]

More speculation on SODDI would be my speculation

This is my guess as well, since D wants the SODDI "in some form," right?

SODDI, "Some Other Dude Did It." A viable defense strategy. But now we're seeing that what's happening in this case was never SODDI, imo. It's "Any Other Dude Did it." (AODDI??) That is not a viable defense strategy, certainly not in this case, jmo. And I had a feeling from the beginning that's what it was, and I'm sure that's where they intend to take it with their KK witness list. Maybe not, maybe it's an attack on what they view as LE's flounderings, but at the back of it, I'd suspect "AODDI" (???).

 

[sunshineray]

 

[TTF14]

It's all about prosecuting and defending RA. His constitutional rights have been met and will be met to the tune of over 4 million dollars and two years of wrangling. I don't think the system is ever served by the kind due process this Defense Team wants to practice. Just revisiting their actor's messages to each other, The Due Process Gang, is a testament of what should never be practiced. I hope when all is said and done with RA's trial, that can all be revisited and reviewed for possible sanctions. AJMO

I can only speak for me, but it’s about due process and constitutional rights. We haven’t had a trial yet so NONE of us know if he’s guilty. MOOOOOOO

I couldn't disagree more and I believe they removed themselves that day...but one later recanted and one admitted to lying about it, to the judge. MO

It is nuanced. JMO

And I would hope it would be reasonable doubt not just some small doubts because of the speculations that have flooded this case from the start. That's what I worry about the most, that the jurors will be levelheaded, think realistically, and contemplate whether their reason is plausible considering only the evidence...not suppositions. AJMO
Praying for such people to make the jury <3

Reasonable doubts can be small. Small doubts can be reasonable. Reasonable doubt is not a quantifier. IMO MOO JMO

We are all hoping for a highly intelligent, Intuitive, observant jury. MOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[iamshadow21]

I can only speak for me, but it’s about due process and constitutional rights. We haven’t had a trial yet so NONE of us know if he’s guilty. MOOOOOOO


It is nuanced. JMO

Reasonable doubts can be small. Small doubts can be reasonable. Reasonable doubt is not a quantifier. IMO MOO JMO

We are all hoping for a highly intelligent, Intuitive, observant jury. MOOOOOOOOOOO

I'd settle for a jury with common sense that asks the right questions.

Oh, that's a point. Any of our legal eagles know if juries can ask their own questions of the witnesses in Indiana? Gannon's jury in Colorado asked the best questions, but I know it's not done everywhere.

MOO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I'd settle for a jury with common sense that asks the right questions.

Oh, that's a point. Any of our legal eagles know if juries can ask their own questions of the witnesses in Indiana? Gannon's jury in Colorado asked the best questions, but I know it's not done everywhere.

MOO

"A juror may be permitted to propound questions to a witness by submitting them in writing to the judge. The judge will decide whether to submit the questions to the witness for answer. The parties may object to the questions at the time proposed or at the next available opportunity when the jury is not present."

Rule 614 - Calling and Interrogation of Witnesses by Court and Jury, Ind. R. Evid. 614 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Rule 614 - Calling and Interrogation of Witnesses by Court and Jury, Ind. R. Evid. 614, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

 

[TTF14]

"A juror may be permitted to propound questions to a witness by submitting them in writing to the judge. The judge will decide whether to submit the questions to the witness for answer. The parties may object to the questions at the time proposed or at the next available opportunity when the jury is not present."

Rule 614 - Calling and Interrogation of Witnesses by Court and Jury, Ind. R. Evid. 614 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Rule 614 - Calling and Interrogation of Witnesses by Court and Jury, Ind. R. Evid. 614, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

It is still up to the judge. I’ll be shocked if questions from jurors are considered in this trial. I’ve watched two trials for the same case with two different judges. This was in Florida, but one allowed it and one didn’t. I predict we will not see it here. My opinion only, as always.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

In reviewing the recent filings by the Defence, I note that they do intend to call Dr. Wala to testify at the trial.

Interesting to note that at the time of the three day hearings Dr. Wala was a Psychologist employeed by IDOCs 3rd Party Contractor - Centurion - to provide mental health services to IDOC inmates. In the days following the 3 Day Hearings, Dr. Wala was issued a ''gate disclosure" by IDOC and "may no longer be empoyeed by Centurion" and "the Defense just recently became aware of said gate disclosure and of apparent termination of employment with Centurion".

I wonder if her termination resulted from her sworn testimony during the 3 Day Hearings that she has accessed other inmates records without authorization / and was a member of social media sites dedicated to discussions of the case. Anyone on here in the Health Care profession that can confirm whether those are considered HIPAA violations? To me these seem like ethical concerns that directly relate to her 'professionalism' IMO. Source is MS 3 Day Hearings.

_Verified Motion for Certificate of Appearance Regarding Out-of-State Witness.pdf

drive.google.com

So I think her accessing the patient records without authorization would be considered a HIPAA violation according to, https://www.hipaajournal.com/common-hipaa-violations/#:~:text=Unintentional HIPAA violations can occur,to a lack of training.

I would have to double check on her reading or involvement in social media sites discussing the case.

 

[Megnut]

If we suppose for a moment that RA is factually guilty, he has a right to a fair trial before a jury of his peers and he's entitled to legal representation.

He is not entitled to the defense attorney of his choosing. It is assigned iiuc by the Court and as such can be reassigned for a multitude of reasons, in the event that lawyers have other obligations, health and family issues, etc.

IMO Judge Gull had solid cause to un-assign the defense attorneys and assign new ones. Her error was in offering them an out, in chambers, rather than a hearing which could prove embarrassing, professionally. That courtesy proved costly.

In the end, SCION ruled against the form of her action but IMO not the substance. I wish she had responded by removing them by the letter.

Anyhow, given that RA is entitled to A defense, as allowed by law, and supported by case law, again presuming he's guilty, just what course could defense attorneys take? I've seen defense attorneys who raise objections as needed, call few or no witnesses, try to poke holes in the State's case, witness by witness. I've seen defense attorneys advise their clients to plead out because sometimes that is in a defendant's best interest.

RA is in a rough spot. Because:

He can't provide an alibi.
He admitted to being in the near-exact spot within 0 to 43 minutes of AW and LG,reaching the bridge. Significantly closer to 0 minutes if BB's timestamps hold up.
He has a gun, he saved a bullet, a recovered bullet can be linked...
No credible SODDIs to date.
61+ confessions

The Defense has created a great deal of noise but I've yet to see anything truly compelling or mitigating... to move RA off the bridge.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I can only speak for me, but it’s about due process and constitutional rights. We haven’t had a trial yet so NONE of us know if he’s guilty. MOOOOOOO


It is nuanced. JMO

Reasonable doubts can be small. Small doubts can be reasonable. Reasonable doubt is not a quantifier. IMO MOO JMO

We are all hoping for a highly intelligent, Intuitive, observant jury. MOOOOOOOOOOO

We know he himself has stated, a truly remarkable amount of times, that he's guilty.

I'm of the opinion that small doubts are those that deliberations can help answer. Being open to airing those and not afraid or stubborn to having the evidence maybe serve you a change of heart, that's important. That's as important in a juror as sticking to your guns on something you really reasonably and thoughtfully believe. JMO

Yes we can only hope the jurors chosen are willing to look at and consider only the evidence presented and not anything they maybe have seen prior to voir dire. That's a tough one, but so necessary, IMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

And I would hope it would be reasonable doubt not just some small doubts because of the speculations that have flooded this case from the start. That's what I worry about the most, that the jurors will be levelheaded, think realistically, and contemplate whether their reason is plausible considering only the evidence...not suppositions. AJMO
Praying for such people to make the jury <3

I wouldn't convict RA based on what I know now. The good thing about these defense attys is they are smart and savvy fighters. I believe the P will benefit from their experience in that he's had mostly easy cases; they have pushed hard to make him prove RA is the murderer.

I hope he has solid evidence.

 

[Megnut]

Just a thoight -- Judge Gull may have ruled against live-streaming after consulting with the State and considering either or both families' wishes.

It's still a public trial, albeit a small courtroom. Family, media, general gallery which represents the public.

I hope the trial proceeds smoothly. My thoughts are with the jurors who will be changed. I followed a rough trial once where, after the verdict, just prior to dismissing the jury, he told them something to this affect: "I hope you can recover from this."

Two little girls, terrorized and slaughtered, those are images you can't unsee.

To serve as a juror is no small thing. They provide a great service to our country. Putting a pause on their lives to listen, learn, deliberate and render a verdict.

The day has finally come.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

If we suppose for a moment that RA is factually guilty, he has a right to a fair trial before a jury of his peers and he's entitled to legal representation.

He is not entitled to the defense attorney of his choosing. It is assigned iiuc by the Court and as such can be reassigned for a multitude of reasons, in the event that lawyers have other obligations, health and family issues, etc.

IMO Judge Gull had solid cause to un-assign the defense attorneys and assign new ones. Her error was in offering them an out, in chambers, rather than a hearing which could prove embarrassing, professionally. That courtesy proved costly.

In the end, SCION ruled against the form of her action but IMO not the substance. I wish she had responded by removing them by the letter.

Anyhow, given that RA is entitled to A defense, as allowed by law, and supported by case law, again presuming he's guilty, just what course could defense attorneys take? I've seen defense attorneys who raise objections as needed, call few or no witnesses, try to poke holes in the State's case, witness by witness. I've seen defense attorneys advise their clients to plead out because sometimes that is in a defendant's best interest.

RA is in a rough spot. Because:

He can't provide an alibi.
He admitted to being in the near-exact spot within 0 to 43 minutes of AW and LG,reaching the bridge. Significantly closer to 0 minutes if BB's timestamps hold up.
He has a gun, he saved a bullet, a recovered bullet can be linked...
No credible SODDIs to date.
61+ confessions

The Defense has created a great deal of noise but I've yet to see anything truly compelling or mitigating... to move RA off the bridge.

JMO

They haven't gotten to the timeline yet.

 

[sunshineray]

I wouldn't convict RA based on what I know now. The good thing about these defense attys is they are smart and savvy fighters. I believe the P will benefit from their experience in that he's had mostly easy cases; they have pushed hard to make him prove RA is the murderer.

I hope he has solid evidence.

I'm looking forward to the defense cross examining the prosecution's witnesses.

As far as what I've seen from the D attorneys so far, not as impressed as you and would and have described them in a much different light. MO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Just for the record. I haven't seen much info on Ra's stint in Wabash Valley. The testimony about his confessions triggered my memory about something I read and couldn't find regarding the meds he was receiving there.

This is the affidavit submitted by a S&L investigator:

Affidavit Investigator S. Moller

Undated Exhibit from January 12, 2024 Motion to Transfer, eventually filed on February 2, 2024 AFFIDAVIT 1) On 11-19-23 I accompanied attorneys Robert Scremin and William Lebrato to the Westville Correctional Facility to meet with Richard Allen. 2) After arrival at the facility, it took approxi...

docs.google.com

16) Mr. Allen stated that since arriving at Wabash Valley Correctional Facility, he had been kept in solitary confinement, had not had any recreational time, and had not been allowed outside, and that he had no window. Although he had been there nearly two weeks, he believed he had taken one, perhaps two showers. He appeared disoriented to date or time. Prison officials confirmed that Mr. Allen had not been taken outside for recreational time, claiming it was a safety issue for “suicide watch.”

17) Mr. Allen expressed concern that he was receiving medications and that he was unsure what he was being given or why, as he had not recently seen a physician. He also stated that whatever medication he receives, he does not always get the same type or number or size or color of pills.

 

[Arkay]

The good thing about these defense attys is they are smart and savvy fighters

Personally, I can never think of them as savvy, or at least not Baldwin.

Not securing what must be graphic and heart-wrenching pictures of Abby and Libby as they lay dead and partially nude is not a signal to me of someone “savvy.”

Neither is sharing privileged info with his buddy and ultimately leading to a suicide.

Anyway, TIME’S UP!

At last. Let the truth prevail.

JMO…

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Just for the record. I haven't seen much info on Ra's stint in Wabash Valley. The testimony about his confessions triggered my memory about something I read and couldn't find regarding the meds he was receiving there.

This is the affidavit submitted by a S&L investigator:

Affidavit Investigator S. Moller

Undated Exhibit from January 12, 2024 Motion to Transfer, eventually filed on February 2, 2024 AFFIDAVIT 1) On 11-19-23 I accompanied attorneys Robert Scremin and William Lebrato to the Westville Correctional Facility to meet with Richard Allen. 2) After arrival at the facility, it took approxi...

docs.google.com

16) Mr. Allen stated that since arriving at Wabash Valley Correctional Facility, he had been kept in solitary confinement, had not had any recreational time, and had not been allowed outside, and that he had no window. Although he had been there nearly two weeks, he believed he had taken one, perhaps two showers. He appeared disoriented to date or time. Prison officials confirmed that Mr. Allen had not been taken outside for recreational time, claiming it was a safety issue for “suicide watch.”

17) Mr. Allen expressed concern that he was receiving medications and that he was unsure what he was being given or why, as he had not recently seen a physician. He also stated that whatever medication he receives, he does not always get the same type or number or size or color of pills.

It occurred to me when reading this that the same man that stands accused of kidnapping, assaulting and murdering two young teens and then going about his life for 5 years may very well be capable of lying and manipulating to gain sympathy or attention.

JMO