Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #198

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I hope so. I'm curious how he thinks that played out.

I really hate that the P chose that as a motive. The crime was so bad in itself, he really didn't need to go there.
Now that will be forever attached to this case. What a shame. In My Opinion
Did the P 'choose' the motive or did they just follow the evidence?

Could one of the girls being stripped naked and stabbed show SA motive ?

When 2 young girls are kidnapped by a stranger from a park, WHAT is the usual and most predominant motive? Besides a sexual motive, what are the other motives?

I can't think of many? It's rarely robbery. Or vengeance. What are other likely motives for 2 girls to be stripped and stabbed to death in broad daylight?
 
First 14 jurors selected in Delphi murder trial.Plus, the prosecutor offers new details in the case alleging how and why Abby Williams and Libby German went down the hill from the Monon High Bridge in February 2017. 1/

A second day of jury selection starts at 9 this morning in Fort Wayne.


New filing in Delphi murders case, even as second day of jury selection starts in Fort Wayne: Prosecutor asks court to block defense references to sketches investigators released during the search for the killer of Abby Williams and Libby German. 1/


@davebangert

Prosecutor's motion: Sketches weren't used to identify Richard Allen and that the witnesses who helped with descriptions of 'Bridge Guy' 'did not see the person depicted in their sketch for a sufficient length of time to allow them to positively identify the defendant.' 2/



10:12 AM · Oct 15, 2024
 
The bolded (by me) part has me curious if any of the trail witnesses will be asked to identify RA in court.

McLeland’s motion argued that “a composite sketch is not relevant, admission would result in undue prejudice, confuse or mislead the jury, or is impermissible hearsay, and the witnesses who participated in the preparation of composite sketch(s) will not be presented by the State for the purpose of in-court identification of the defendant.”

 
I wondered if this would be a point of contention for the trial. I think the juror's deserve to know how and why two radically different sketches came about.
I don't think it will be that big of a problem. It is explainable. After a long time of no one recognising the initial sketch, they reevaluated. There was one witness who saw it a different way, so they put out a revised version, making him look younger.

I think that is somewhat normal that there are differing descriptions of a suspect.
 
<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
Murderers have been known to remove a victim's clothes to dispose of them due to worry over DNA being left on them, for identification purposes. There are alternative explanations as to why they may be removed that don't include wizard fire spells. IMO
 
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I wonder how RA's attorneys reacted when they heard about his confession letters, phone calls, his talks with his mental health doctor and his yelling out his guilt? I wonder if they told him he needed to muddy the waters a bit and start talking nonsense? Just a thought.
Leticia Stauch attempted this....
 
Murderers have been known to remove a victim's clothes to dispose of them due to worry over DNA being left on them, for identification purposes. There are alternative explanations as to why they may be removed that don't include wizard fire spells. IMO
Even if there is evidence that the clothes were removed before the stabbing?

I agree, in general. I do realise there are fringe cases of undressing a victim to conceal evidence. EG a mother undressing a child before drowning them in the tub. However that's not what the evidence points to, in this case, IMO and in the opinion of the FBI. 100% willing to change my mind, if we see evidence that there was methodical cleaning of the scene.

IMO
 
The sworn testimony by Harshman didn't impeach the claims. The defense has sworn affidavits from an inmate companion and a C/O that RA did say those things.
Page 10
The P has audio tapes of some of RA's confessions. And at least one written confession. Those will be the ones most relied upon. IMO

If various witnesses described in their own words, other confessions, those might be noted, but are not as reliable because they are being reworded by memory---all of which can be faulty.

I think the jury will most interested in the confessions they can hear and see for themselves. IMO
 
I don't think it will be that big of a problem. It is explainable. After a long time of no one recognising the initial sketch, they reevaluated. There was one witness who saw it a different way, so they put out a revised version, making him look younger.

I think that is somewhat normal that there are differing descriptions of a suspect.
100%. I am old enough to have followed trials where the sketches looked like... stick ppl, or a pair of non-descript eyes, or so radically different one could wonder if the perp was not a shape-shifter. Sketches are what they are, impressions of a memory, and I think there is enough data and common sense to justify the differences.

All MOO
 
In my opinion, I just can’t make this make sense. Abby was supposedly redressed in Libby’s clothes (that don’t match what reports said Libby was wearing) and the scene was then staged, in my opinion. If he was interrupted, why take the time? Why not just leave them both nude and just run? Maybe Abby was never nude at all and only Libby was. But then in the bridge pic, Abby has a different outfit on. Will the State have a logical explanation for all of this?

As always, JMO
I can't make sense of it either....but, then again we aren't killers.
 
Didn't Carter also predict that the killer was a local to Delphi, and his family would possibly be aware something was off?
Carter also said the killer would want to know what LE knows and someday he would. Maybe defense wants to put him the stand to confirm that, "yes, we want to know," though I expect by the time the defense gets their turn, we'll all know.

jmo
 
Even if there is evidence that the clothes were removed before the stabbing?

I agree, in general. I do realise there are fringe cases of undressing a victim to conceal evidence. EG a mother undressing a child before drowning them in the tub. However that's not what the evidence points to, in this case, IMO and in the opinion of the FBI. 100% willing to change my mind, if we see evidence that there was methodical cleaning of the scene.

IMO
I'm not necessarily saying I disagree the crime wasn't sexually motivated. There are alternative theories, though. I haven't heard from anyone on when or how the clothes were removed. I don't know anything about what was found on the clothes. I just don't think one has to move from "must be SA" to "wizard fire spells" so soon.
 
The defense is calling Doug Carter as a witness? Any thoughts on that?!

jmo
DC may be asked why he stated in his Today Show tv interview on 1/15/18 that there were no eyewitnesses that saw BG, other than “the girls”.

At 11:11 in the video:
 
Murderers have been known to remove a victim's clothes to dispose of them due to worry over DNA being left on them, for identification purposes. There are alternative explanations as to why they may be removed that don't include wizard fire spells. IMO
The clothing was taken off one victim before the assaults, reportedly. And was not taken off of the other victim. So that explanation---'he took the clothing due to DNA contamination' does not work in this case, IMO.

When two girls are abducted by a stranger from a park in broad daylight, stripped and then stabbed to death----what are possible motives besides sexual ones? Can we name some other possible motives?
 
The clothing was taken off one victim before the assaults, reportedly. And was not taken off of the other victim. So that explanation---'he took the clothing due to DNA contamination' does not work in this case, IMO.

When two girls are abducted by a stranger from a park in broad daylight, stripped and then stabbed to death----what are possible motives besides sexual ones? Can we name some other possible motives?
I mean, I just did. In the post you quoted.
 
Maybe the clothes found on the bank of the creek and one shoe nearby? Maybe it appeared the girls were being stripped on the bridge side, but then the actually murders happened across the creek.

Also, there might be witnesses that testified, like the son of the homeowners, whose land abuts the creek where the clothes were found? He apparently drove up the driveway to check on his parents empty home while thy were away.

If LE saw that report, they'd know a car could have been heard at about 3 pm, coming upon that driveway. That could have spooked RA and forced him to take the girls across the creek and into the brush?
Oh! Maybe he forced them to strip on the bridge side and then threw the clothes in the river, which is how he coerced them into the water - to retrieve their clothes?!?

jmo
 
Prosecutors in the murder trial of Richard Allen, the Delphi man who is accused of killing two teenagers, has asked the court to prohibit the sketches used by investigators.

View attachment 537846

From the article & BBM:

McLeland told the court in a motion in that the sketches should not be admitted for the reason that ‘a composite sketch is not relevant, admission would result in undue prejudice, confuse or mislead the jury, or is impermissible hearsay, and the witnesses who participated in the preparation of composite sketch(s) will not be presented by the state for the purpose of in-court identification of the defendant.’

He also argues that the persons who assisted in the preparation of the sketches did not see the person depicted in the sketches for a sufficient length of time to positively identify Allen.


You bet it would confuse the jury, and be prejudicial against the State!
To me, the pic with RA in the center of the 2 sketches does allow for him to be the man depicted. I am disappointed that the witnesses who helped produce the sketches are unable to confidently point a finger at RA specifically now that he has been accused. I get that the sketches didn’t lead to his arrest, but dang!, I was really hoping for the witnesses to identify him as the man they saw that day. Gives me a weird kind of feeling for the State to be attempting to ban stuff that was produced by the State.

Also, I am still shocked at how quickly the jury was chosen! They quickly found all these folks who are unfamiliar with the case?!?! Wow!

IMO
 
For me, this trial's all going to come down to Dulin. With RA subtly noting, oh, yeah, I had the phone on the trail ("stock ticker"), there's an almost subliminal message of trustworthiness being delivered through that piece of info (phone=trackability). No murderer would bring a phone to his murder. Tip's lost, somehow filed under his street name instead of RA's last name. (And I'll be waiting to see what is listed on that form in the blank that says "name." Alternatively, I'll be waiting to see if an interview with a conservation officer vs municipal police or sheriff impacts the way that document would be filed/stored.). The interview wasn't done in an ideal location and wasn't recorded. (You'd wonder whose idea that arrangement was, but we'll see.)

If any of these turn out to be the case-- didn't have the phone, arranged for that interview to be done in that way, "accidentally" jumbled up the info so he gave the street address as last name but now is swearing up and down that's not the case-- if any of these happened, this person knows how to read people and knows how to manipulate not just the people themselves, but actual circumstances and outcomes in a wider context. Someone like that would manufacture conflicting confessions and feign madness. Right now, my money's on him not having that phone. And he's supposedly such a family man, anyone could have an emergency, why no phone? The answer for me is because he's a murderer and he was going to be murdering two young girls that day. If you ask without being able to prove it, though-- he had it, he had the phone, the "stock ticker."

All the stars line up in the most horrible way for me if Richard Allen didn't have his phone that day.
What if RA saw D Dulin and just approached him of his own volition? Did LE have an information tips center set up at the grocery store right next to CVS? Did RA know DD? Maybe a scenario something like this: RA to DD

"Hey Dan, it's so awful what happened. I just wanted to give someone (LE) a heads up that I was on the trails yesterday from about 1 pm to 3:30 pm. I really didn't see anything". Dan D asked about RA seeing the girls... "Oh wait, I did pass a group of 3 or 4 girls (one taller with dark hair - creepy that he remembered that IMO) on the Freedom Trail but that's about it. I was just out taking a stroll, didn't notice anything suspicious or see anyone else, maybe a few cars in the parking lot. I'm so sorry about all of this, here's my phone number if you need it. Happy to help out any way I can."

RA didn't go into the details of watching fish or checking his stock until the interview in Oct 2022 when he was confronted with the fact BB saw him on the first bench on the MHB IMO.

Obviously I've spent way too much time trying to figure out how RA tipped himself in to DD. lol

ALL JMO
 
I'm not necessarily saying I disagree the crime wasn't sexually motivated. There are alternative theories, though. I haven't heard from anyone on when or how the clothes were removed. I don't know anything about what was found on the clothes. I just don't think one has to move from "must be SA" to "wizard fire spells" so soon.
I hear you, and I appreciate the input!

I am going with the FBI scene analysis and their conclusion. Additionally, re when the clothes were removed:

During the 3 days pre-trial hearing, the blood expert (Cicero) testified that Abby was already redressed by the time her wound was inflicted. She bled out on her hoodie and the blood followed the exact trail of gravity. All MOO because I am struggling to find the transcripts atm - unless much more capable humans, like @Vern have a link available?
 
Those were my words, my opinion. I've seen a lot of other absurd opinions here, too. Out of respect to the posters, I've never called them absurd.

I've never said talking about SA was shameful.
There is no evidence of SA in this case.
There is certainly enough evidence (isn't there?) to convict without dragging SA into it.

Just for clarification, I'm not telling anyone here what to discuss.
There is evidence of a sexual motive, IMO. Two young girls, kidnapped by a stranger, stripped and stabbed to death.

What are the other possible motives for that? Can anyone name some other possible motives?

It wasn't a robbery. It wasn't road rage. What was it if it wasn't sexually motivated?
 
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