Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #198

[sunshineray]

IMO the Indiana Supreme Court's definition of bias is quite different from what the general public perceives.

There was a case I watched that I was undecided on and I felt the judge clearly favored the prosecution over the defense. That made me look at the case in a whole different light. I hope this judge displays a neutral attitude in front of jurors.

That's because the SCOIN was looking at it through the lens of the law, not emotion. MO

 

[katydid23]

Clearly, I did not say that. I said the definitions were different.
However, the general public does not read the Supreme Court's decisions, they just go by what their understanding is. IMO

Maybe there are different definitions, but the LEGAL definition of bias is what is relevant here.

Your 'general public' definition is irrelevant. A judge can rule against one side 80% of the time and still be unbiased IF THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE LETTER OF THE LAW.

The general public does not always understand that and might see that as showing bias---but in reality it is not.

This defense team filed very flawed, irregular motions, like the Franks, and then refiled three more times, the same flawed motion. OBVIOUSLY it will be ruled against each time because it had the same legal issues each time.

THAT^^^ is not judicial bias, that is just adhering to legal requirements and being consistent. And SCOIN ruled as such.

 

[katydid23]

I don't know if there was a correct way for the judge to remove RA's attys of choice.

If the lawyers of choice are leaking crime scene photos, lying to the court and filing ridiculous motions then it is beneficial for RA to have him make a new and better choice.

 

[photographer4]

IMO this wouldn't be admissible testimony because it invites speculation.

Hmm. Then there must be something the D thinks these inmates can offer their case. Wonder what it is!??

 

[photographer4]

I agree they'll try to attack the validity of the confessions. I just wonder how much scope there would be to call Randos who didn't directly see RAs conditions?

Like I could imagine them calling one of the watchers who has direct knowledge.

IMO

I don’t think the inmates the D wants to transport will be talking about the “confessions” my by RA unless they were involved in eliciting them somehow (which doesn’t seem the case). Very interesting move by the D here! Sooo curious! Moooo

 

[FrostedGlass]

Maybe there are different decisions, but the LEGAL definition of bias is what is relevant here.

Your 'general public' definition is irrelevant. A judge can rule against one side 80% of the time and still be unbiased IF THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE LETTER OF THE LAW.

The general public does not always understand that and might see that as showing bias---but in reality it is not.

This defense team filed very flawed, irregular motions, like the Franks, and then refiled three more times, the same flawed motion. OBVIOUSLY it will be ruled against each time because it had the same legal issues each time.

THAT^^^ is not judicial bias, that is just adhering to legal requirements and being consistent. And SCOIN ruled as such.

Your making a argument that's not there for me.

My point was if the jurors think she is treating one side differently than the other, it might influence their decisions. Regardless of the LEGAL definition I think it's really important for judges to appear to be neutral in the eyes of the public.

 

[sunshineray]

It’s not about defending RA. It’s about due process and constitutional rights. None of us know if he’s guilty or not. The trial hasn’t even started.

As always, JMO.

It's all about prosecuting and defending RA. His constitutional rights have been met and will be met to the tune of over 4 million dollars and two years of wrangling. I don't think the system is ever served by the kind due process this Defense Team wants to practice. Just revisiting their actor's messages to each other, The Due Process Gang, is a testament of what should never be practiced. I hope when all is said and done with RA's trial, that can all be revisited and reviewed for possible sanctions. AJMO

 

[photographer4]

Maybe there are different definitions, but the LEGAL definition of bias is what is relevant here.

Your 'general public' definition is irrelevant. A judge can rule against one side 80% of the time and still be unbiased IF THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE LETTER OF THE LAW.

The general public does not always understand that and might see that as showing bias---but in reality it is not.

This defense team filed very flawed, irregular motions, like the Franks, and then refiled three more times, the same flawed motion. OBVIOUSLY it will be ruled against each time because it had the same legal issues each time.

THAT^^^ is not judicial bias, that is just adhering to legal requirements and being consistent. And SCOIN ruled as such.

How many Franks Motions had the D submitted at the time of the SCOIN ruling on bias? I think at that point it was just the one. If they end up appealing a conviction, I wonder if subsequent denied Franks filings could be called into question? I’ll add moo here even though it’s an actual question for those more versed in law than I am….

 

[photographer4]

It's all about prosecuting and defending RA. His constitutional rights have been met and will be met to the tune of over 4 million dollars and two years of wrangling. I don't think the system is ever served by the kind due process this Defense Team wants to practices. Just revisiting their actor's messages to each other, The Due Process Gang, is a testament of what should never be practiced. I hope when all is said and done with RA's trial, that can all be revisited and reviewed for possible sanctions. AJMO

Was it ever proven that b and r put the “due process” people up to whatever it was the “gang” was accused of? I didn’t listen to the podcast and haven’t heard any follow up reports anywhere that show the the Defense was actually involved in that whole private chat?

 

[katydid23]

I agree the whole thing is a Hail Mary, but they are indeed on a witness list for some reason. What are some other guesses to why?

jmo

I think there are different reasons for each of them. IMO

I think that JC might be a candidate for SODDI. He was a POI and a likely suspect for awhile. They may want to show the jury what a 'real' suspect is---someone with a past history of kidnapping/assaulting young girls. As opposed to a mild mannered family man with no criminal history.

KK allegedly 'confessed' to involvement and accused his father of being at the crime scene. So I am sure he'd like the jury to hear about that prior testimony and 'confession.'

 

[AugustWest]

DBM

 

[Ravenmoon]

Of course the defense wasn't...but that doesn't stop the masses from insinuating such. Nor can the masses
point to a single rule in the attorney's model rules of professional ethics that implicates they have acted in such a way

EBM

Guess it was corrected

 

[SouthEnd]

I think it was the correct decision to remove them but she did not do it correctly. JMO

I'm leaning towards this, tbh. I believe that the improper handling of discovery material tipped the scale, IMO, but I am not a fan of her in chambers handling or the draconian rules when it comes to the information she releases.
All MOO

 

[SouthEnd]

But that proves nothing about how RA was treated. It's RA's trial. Calling other even former suspects does nothing but raise questions to be answered about their experiences. Each claim would need to be separately investigated and decided on. RA's trial is not the place for that. I doubt that is why those 4 men were put on the witness lists anyway but if it is, sounds like worse than a Hail Mary or spaghetti-throwing event idea for RA's trial. AJMO

I agree. I personally don't think they will be called to testify on the conditions of incarceration. It would be a moot point to argue against the conditions that are bog standard in Indiana but that's just my opinion.

 

[SouthEnd]

I agree the whole thing is a Hail Mary, but they are indeed on a witness list for some reason. What are some other guesses to why?

jmo

One was a cellmate of RL, one is KK, one was an alternative suspect online. I'm guessing they are there to... prove they are viable alternative suspects? IMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Have we ever seen the full list of the people who testified during the 3 day hearing in July and August?
If so, can someone post it? Did TMS cover all the witnesses?

 

[sunshineray]

You may be right but she made the really bad decision to remove the D.

I couldn't disagree more and I believe they removed themselves that day...but one later recanted and one admitted to lying about it, to the judge. MO

 

[sunshineray]

I agree the whole thing is a Hail Mary, but they are indeed on a witness list for some reason. What are some other guesses to why?

jmo

Probably utterances made, that would be my guess, prison tall tales to pass the time.

 

[photographer4]

Probably utterances made, that would be my guess, prison tall tales to pass the time.

Utterances, about what, by whom? Are you suggesting they’ve heard RA proclaim his innocence or maybe have heard other inmates talk about their involvement in the crime? Eg: maybe one of the transport witnesses has heard RL confess or has heard other inmates bragging about how RA is the wrong guy and X did it?

 

[sunshineray]

Was it ever proven that b and r put the “due process” people up to whatever it was the “gang” was accused of? I didn’t listen to the podcast and haven’t heard any follow up reports anywhere that show the the Defense was actually involved in that whole private chat?

Two of the lawyers were offically on the D team at the time. The rest of them followed their lead and discussed doing underhanded and questionable deeds.

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