Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #200

[Dhighsmith]

If there's allowance in the court for exhibit review, you'd be able. Otherwise records are immediately available via visiting court records/ system. I think the point here is there is allowance for exhibit review daily, but only for media by Judge's discretion. JMHO

I can’t recall specifically which case but within past year, similar ruling by Judge that provided for viewing of Exhibits by Media each day at end of court proceedings- I believe Alex Murdaugh trial.

 

[otto]

Yeah I believe that the media pool is actually the ones that corrected Judge Gull on that and told her that is unconstitutional.

What? Is there some trial interference?

 

[mpnola]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

Rest in peace, Abby and libby. You were both so brave and you got solid evidence to catch him. Good job!!!

 

[otto]

My understanding of the Defence's theory thus far is:

If there was an unspent bullet in the scene, it was because the Police left it there. But if you don't believe the police left it there, then one alternative suspect left it there. But if you believe that the one suspect could be RA, then the wounds mean that two separate ppl committed the attacks. But if there is no proof of 2+ perps being in the trails and the scene because of lack of footsteps, then the girls were murdered somewhere else. But if you don't believe that they were murdered somewhere else because of the cold, hard blood evidence, then how do you explain that one of the phone's had a brief handshake with a towed in the early morning hours?

You don't need to worry about damning evidence if you keep moving the goalposts. Just keep juicy theories with little evidenciary backing coming, and perhaps at least once juror will be bamboozled enough to not realise that the train of thought they lead them on has no wheels.

All MOO

Unspent bullet. Found at the scene, not because police left it there, but because it was found between the two bodies, neither of which were shot - according to trial evidence thus far. Why was the bullet between the bodies and where did it come from?

It's too much of a leap to agree that because both girls died of different cuts to the neck, it means that two people were involved using difference blades. Hunting knives include sharp and edged blades. Ask Kohlberger.

Does anyone remember how Richard Allen was first identified and arrested? I vaguely recall that he was arrested after he was asked to provide finger prints related to theft from his neighbour's shed. Did his finger prints lead to a search of his property in relation to Libby and Abby's murders? Why?

 

[MassGuy]

What? Is there some trial interference?

They argued that it was unconstitutional that she was planning on forcing the media to wait until after trial to access the exhibits. That’s standard in many places, but apparently not in Indiana (obviously a good thing).

She relented, making the exhibits available at the end of each trial day; the law was on the media’s side there.

 

[Dhighsmith]

I think her rulings re: such limited access, so few media, no recordings, very limited access to exhibits, etc. are draconian. And probably illegal. I know it's "her" courtroom. Still, she's supposed to follow the law. And I don't think she fully is.

We live in the modern era with both positives & negatives. I think there's a middle road that could be found that would allow better access (perhaps an audio recording released after the fact? an overflow room for additional space for viewing? etc.?) while still maintaining a leash on the things she wants to control.

Also, I realize "reasonable accomodation" per the ADA applies to jobs/workplaces, but I feel like there could reasonably be ADA complaints against her re: no food, no water, no guaranteed return to your seat, etc.

As a part of the public, we are supposed to have a certain amount of access & ability to see the judicial branch in practice. The judge is blocking a lot of that. I hope media as well as some individuals pursue further action on this.

MOO of course.

I know my limits, would be concerned of being escorted out or worse, ugly monster is rare but not my finest moments when experiencing very low blood sugar event. Similar to Tequila in excess, not my friend, LOL.

 

[MassGuy]

Unspent bullet. Found at the scene, not because police left it there, but because it was found between the two bodies, neither of which were shot - according to trial evidence thus far. Why was the bullet between the bodies and where did it come from?

It's too much of a leap to agree that because both girls died of different cuts to the neck, it means that two people were involved using difference blades. Hunting knives include sharp and edged blades. Ask Kohlberger.

Does anyone remember how Richard Allen was first identified and arrested? I vaguely recall that he was arrested after he was asked to provide finger prints related to theft from his neighbour's shed. Did his finger prints lead to a search of his property in relation to Libby and Abby's murders? Why?

Investigators went over the case file again and found Allen's statement to an investigator early on. They interviewed him again and he provided more details, to include admitting to wearing the very type of clothing that Bridge Guy was wearing (also corroborated by witnesses). They executed a search warrant on his house, where they seized among numerous other things, his 40 caliber Sig Sauer Pistol.

Testing matched that gun to the unspent round found next to the girls' bodies.

So we have a man on the video (BG) who we know with near certainty was involved in this crime. Allen admits to being there that day, dressed in the same clothing as the man in that video. His firearm is a match for the unspent round found at the scene. That's how you get to a murder charge.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[mrjitty]

The State DID test the hair. That's how they determined it was a female closely related to Libby.

But to continue the Genealogy Testing takes time and money. Once they realised it was a sister or cousin of the victim, was it really a priority to figure out who exactly it was? They were not the killer and it was more important to move on to higher priority issues.

exactly. it was a conspiracy created by Baldwin and then promoted by Motta before the jury was seated.

they’ve done this many times now

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I'm wondering why it was necessary to broadcast it to the world when it isn't their business or anyone else's for that matter.

Causing trouble where there isn't any.

Because Motta pretends to be independent and non partisan when actually he is collaborating with the defence.

Why would the defence have their own YouTuber sitting in Court with them and live-streaming each day???

MOO

 

[katydid23]

Snipped by me.

Could you please expand on what you mean by “plotted to get to the jurors to try and throw the trial” with a source?

That is an extremely heavy claim to make against a group of defense attorneys

Jmo

This was all discussed endlessly for several months. The source was allowed here at the time. Here is one small excerpt.

The Delphi Murders: The Secret Messages of the Delphi Defense's Brain Trust: Part One: "Zone of Pain"


[redacted] said some of the messages in the group chat bring up ethical concerns of potential jury tampering, particularly when [redacted] and the others talk about giving YouTube internet sleuths surveys filled out by potential jurors so they can do background investigations on them."

 

[katydid23]

No, the truth is that at the time of making these confessions, he was in such a state of psychological crisis that he was eating his own feces.

I think by the end of the trial, if we all listen closely, we will find that to be untrue. IMO

 

[iamshadow21]

None of that negates the fact that the location where they were found had been searched the evening prior.

Could we have a source for this that isn't the defense's opening statement, which is not evidence?

MOO

 

[katydid23]

None of that negates the fact that the location where they were found had been searched the evening prior.

No it wasn't. The State will be able to prove that. Wait until we hear the actual evidence.

 

[MassGuy]

No it wasn't. The State will be able to prove that. Wait until we hear the actual evidence.

Ignoring the fact that those girls could easily be missed by searchers, even if they were really, really close to them, there's another issue we've talked about:

This killer would have to remove the girls from the scene, and pointlessly/insanely bring them back to an area that couldn't possibly be more dangerous to him. He'd have to park his car, and carry them one by one through an area where he'd have every expectation of bumping into searchers.

Lunacy isn't strong enough a word.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I think her rulings re: such limited access, so few media, no recordings, very limited access to exhibits, etc. are draconian. And probably illegal. I know it's "her" courtroom. Still, she's supposed to follow the law. And I don't think she fully is.

We live in the modern era with both positives & negatives. I think there's a middle road that could be found that would allow better access (perhaps an audio recording released after the fact? an overflow room for additional space for viewing? etc.?) while still maintaining a leash on the things she wants to control.

Also, I realize "reasonable accomodation" per the ADA applies to jobs/workplaces, but I feel like there could reasonably be ADA complaints against her re: no food, no water, no guaranteed return to your seat, etc.

As a part of the public, we are supposed to have a certain amount of access & ability to see the judicial branch in practice. The judge is blocking a lot of that. I hope media as well as some individuals pursue further action on this.

MOO of course.

I agree. In fact, a primary method of holding in check the judicial branch is that trials are to be public. As technology has evolved, the expectation of what constitutes "public" has expanded. The more eyes and ears on a trial, the better for both the state and the defendant. MOO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

No it wasn't. The State will be able to prove that. Wait until we hear the actual evidence.

Fair enough. Happy to wait. How long will I have to wait, do you know? I think I heard transcripts are public record in Indiana. Is that correct? None of us can hear any evidence in this trial without physically going to the courthouse. Are transcripts only provided after a trial has concluded? TIA

 

[mrjitty]

I agree. In fact, a primary method of holding in check the judicial branch is that trials are to be public. As technology has evolved, the expectation of what constitutes "public" has expanded. The more eyes and ears on a trial, the better for both the state and the defendant. MOO

I don't agree with the Judge's rulings on media access, (there should at least be a media room) but if defence teams are going to pursue strategies where they build external fan bases and build conspiracies via surrogate influencers building on wild statements in court and motions (see the hair fiasco) it doesn't surprise me in the least she is trying to control it.

IMO the better way to control it would be to allow broad access for credentialed media. I am not against YouTubers / Podcasters being credentialed, but I actually don't agree that should include every person with a few 1000 subscribers.

 

[MassGuy]

The defence will need to establish an evidential foundation that he was in psychological crisis and the jury will have the task to assess it. I don't see that we know he was as a fact, or at least I have not seen the evidence of it.

MOO

The guards apparently thought he was faking, and the psychologist thought he might be faking at times. If I had to lean in a particular direction though, I'd go in the direction that he was in some sort of crisis. He did apparently start talking about God quite a bit before it happened, and in my limited experience seeing that (when it comes out of the blue), what follows is never good. It's of course also possible that he came in and out of that state to some extent.

So at this stage (knowing nothing), I'll give the defense that. It becomes a moot point however if those confessions include real details that only the killer would know though.

This part sounds like the concerns I would expect a lucid person to have:

Allen, Harshman said, talked about why he killed the girls and why he delayed in confessing, although the detective did not elaborate on what those motivations were. Harshman also said Allen expressed fears that his family will no longer love him after the trial, during which they will see graphic photos of the girls' bodies.

Did Richard Allen confess to killing two Delphi teens? Here's what we learned

Witnesses testified this week about Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's statements and behavior following his arrest.

www.indystar.com

 

[mrjitty]

The guards apparently thought he was faking, and the psychologist thought he might be faking at times. If I had to lean in a particular direction though, I'd go in the direction that he was in some sort of crisis. He did apparently start talking about God quite a bit before it happened, and in my limited experience seeing that (when it comes out of the blue), what follows is never good. It's of course also possible that he came in and out of that state to some extent.

So at this stage (knowing nothing), I'll give the defense that. It becomes a moot point though if those confessions include real details that only the killer would know though.

This part sounds like the concerns I would expect a lucid person to have:

Allen, Harshman said, talked about why he killed the girls and why he delayed in confessing, although the detective did not elaborate on what those motivations were. Harshman also said Allen expressed fears that his family will no longer love him after the trial, during which they will see graphic photos of the girls' bodies.

Did Richard Allen confess to killing two Delphi teens? Here's what we learned

Witnesses testified this week about Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's statements and behavior following his arrest.

www.indystar.com

Good points.

And even a psychosis does not mean the confessions were not true in substance. I've had someone in a psychosis confess a secret to me they held for 25 years!

Let's see what he actually said.

MOO

 

[snooptroop88]

Looking over the clothing items and the arrangement of the articles. Like a lot of other people on here, I'm trying to figure out why one victim was treated so much differently from the other; why one victim is clothed so differently from the other; why Libby's phone was left behind; why that bullet is between the victims; and the meaning of RA's keepsake bullet in the wooden box in a dresser in the master bedroom (??).

We'll know to the extent possible soon on at least some of these questions, I hope. In the meantime, just kind of mulling over the "interruption" mentioned by P. Interrupted how? I doubt it's human interference. They know who was on the trails at that time on that day, correct? But I can't be sure, and maybe they can't, either (?) However, assuming it wasn't human interruption (like some unrelated person on the trail), what are some possibilities? Someone fell off the bridge. Someone fell descending down the hill. Someone was injured, maybe one or both of the girls, maybe he was injured. I don't think Libby's phone ringing was the interruption because this would have emphasized in his mind the need to dispose of that phone, and it was left behind. Was there some physical altercation, did one of the girls throw a rock or something at him? Did an animal make noise or movement that spooked him?

On the unspent bullet between the girls, it was partially buried. This is (obviously) just a guess, but I think the killer had a rich fantasy life and this somehow played into the particulars of his fantasy. There's really no reason for that bullet to be there. And RA has that keepsake bullet in the wooden box that he kept in a dresser in his master bedroom. Why the "keepsake" bullet? Two bullets, two victims? The strange clothing situation, too, where one victim's wearing the other's clothes, might be part of his fantasy. But also wondering if he was extremely concerned about the clothing articles that went into the creek. He had to know those were going to be like a calling card to LE finding the CS. Maybe he was frantically trying to make sure no other clothing items ended up in the creek after his departure (dragged off by wind, rain, animals...) Just thoughts & guesses on this as I'm mulling it over.