Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #200

[Seattle1]

Hi all y'all. I haven't been following this case as closely as most of you, but is it true that the jury is allowed to ask questions?

And if so, is that a unique Indiana law? I have never seen the jury allowed to ask questions in any trial I have ever followed.

Also if so, do they have to submit questions in advance and the judge decides which ones are allowed to be asked? How does it work?

Thanks.

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #199'

Oct 18, 2024

Redirecting...

RULE 20. PRELIMINARY INSTRUCTIONS

(a) The court shall instruct the jury before opening statements by reading the appropriate instructions which shall include at least the following:

(1) the issues for trial;

(2) the applicable burdens of proof;

(3) the credibility of witnesses and the manner of weighing the testimony to be received;

(4) that each juror may take notes during the trial and paper shall be provided, but note taking...

• Seattle1

• 

 

[ClearAhead]

In 2017 I recall reading that one of the volunteer searchers that morning noticed two deer standing together and as he walked in their direction, he found the girl’s bodies. I have no link, just my memory. IMO

Yes I recall that. IIRC it was BP, Libby’s grandmother who repeated that story. Possibly two deer were sighted and it morphed into the recollect. According to First Nations people, deer or other animals are a welcome and positive sign as their presence it to protect and guide the souls of the deceased. MOO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Today in the Delphi murder trial of Richard Allen:Testimony this morning focused on the search for Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge Trail after they didn’t return to meet their ride the afternoon of Feb. 13, 2017. 1/

View attachment 538924

Steve Mullin, who was Delphi police chief, testified about returning to work that night to help the sheriff’s dispatch coordinate the initial search before it was called off just before 2 am Feb. 14, 2017.‘I still believed they’d be found,’ Mullin said. 2/


Using a large map of the area and low-flying drone footage, Mullin gave a virtual tour of the Monon High Bridge Trail and the key landmarks near it. Prosecutor Nick McLeland said he had to remember that the court was working with a jury from Allen Co., not from Carroll Co. 3:


Mullin said he returned Feb 14 to help coordinate searches, sending teams of two and three with maps to search the area. 4/


Johns testified that nearly four hours into their search, they spotted a tie-dyed shirt hung up on roots sticking out along Deer Creek. 5/


Johns testified that his partner called Delphi resident Pat Brown, who was in the area looking just north, and across Deer Creek, to walk their way. They were on the phone with him when Brown told them, ‘We found the bodies.’ 6/

Brown testified that what he saw looked like mannequins at first. He choked up when he described calling Delphi PD Chief Mullin: ‘I stood there facing away from them.’He said police were there in about 5 minutes, but seemed like it felt forever. 7/


Court was in session until 11:45 am. The trial continues Monday morning. More from the courtroom later today at
@93wibc and http://basedinlafayette.com

@davebangert

Thanks for any, and all of these updates. It's hard to get caught up on the thread so I am just searching via your screen name LOL.

 

[wastelands_]

Yes I recall that. IIRC it was BP, Libby’s grandmother who repeated that story. Possibly two deer were sighted and it morphed into the recollect. According to First Nations people, deer or other animals are a welcome and positive sign as their presence it to protect and guide the souls of the deceased. MOO

I do believe if you go back to some of the very very first Delphi threads on here it’s mentioned there, too. Could be wrong and obviously jmt, but I have a vague recollection of first seeing it on WS in the days after the bodies were found

 

[TTF14]

I do believe if you go back to some of the very very first Delphi threads on here it’s mentioned there, too. Could be wrong and obviously jmt, but I have a vague recollection of first seeing it on WS in the days after the bodies were found

I posted a link to Gray Hughes video earlier today in which Gray and Kelsi talk about it.

 

[Dhighsmith]

Are podcast and influencer defence-guests asking for access to evidence presented during trial testimony, where the jury is sequestered, even though traditional media has been turned away (no cameras or digital devices)?

The Judge has ruled in favour of media silence throughout this trial; other than old fashioned pencil and paper crime story journalists and artists. After verdict, evidence will probably be made available to journalists. Podcasters will continue to find evidence photos through news outlets.

MHO, her ruling will likely contribute to publishing (Podcasts/YouTube) misinformation. Failing to allow public access via cameras or audio is causing much more damage than had she just ruled in favor of public access (camera/audio)- ultimate power and control often depletes common sense.
-JMO-

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Yes I recall that. IIRC it was BP, Libby’s grandmother who repeated that story. Possibly two deer were sighted and it morphed into the recollect. According to First Nations people, deer or other animals are a welcome and positive sign as their presence it to protect and guide the souls of the deceased. MOO

That’s interesting. I’ve always thought it was a sign, perhaps from the girls themselves.

 

[Melted]

It just shows many of us that the unethical group that plotted to get to the jurors and to try and throw the trial is actually closely connected to the defense attorneys. Good to know.

Snipped by me.

Could you please expand on what you mean by “plotted to get to the jurors to try and throw the trial” with a source?

That is an extremely heavy claim to make against a group of defense attorneys

Jmo

 

[Emma Peel]

I was thinking something along the same lines...

But in all seriousness, do we all want to start betting how fast the quality of the reporting / court etiquette will start degrading under these conditions? If the press and public attending can't get comfort breaks or clear information, how is their memory going to hold up, and how soon before every outlet starts putting out wildly inaccurate information?

I find a lot of JG's rulings very cut+dry when it comes to following precedent and law, but her handling of the access baffles me.

All MOO

I find her rulings void of citations and reference to the law. It is fair to say her style is perfunctory.
JMHO

 

[Melted]

Because only the mainstream press is allowed to do so. Not the people sitting in the audience.

That is 100% unconstitutional.

 

[ClearAhead]

I do believe if you go back to some of the very very first Delphi threads on here it’s mentioned there, too. Could be wrong and obviously jmt, but I have a vague recollection of first seeing it on WS in the days after the bodies were found

Yes good chance it’s there too. It’s not surprising for minor details to not all be in sync when recounted by various parties. This is probably one of several examples we’ll notice. MOO

 

[Dhighsmith]

I do believe if you go back to some of the very very first Delphi threads on here it’s mentioned there, too. Could be wrong and obviously jmt, but I have a vague recollection of first seeing it on WS in the days after the bodies were found

I remember those early discussions, trying to recall details related to deer. It’s been so long ago, I’m likely confusing myself on whether sighting was connected family member of Abby’s or another searcher who witnessed the deer nearby at time of discovering remains.
BTW, I recall it was said deer was observed so I don’t think it was simply a noise that someone assumed to be a deer- rustling foliage as testified to in statement of Pat searching near creek.

 

[Emma Peel]

Are podcast and influencer defence-guests asking for access to evidence presented during trial testimony, where the jury is sequestered, even though traditional media has been turned away (no cameras or digital devices)?

The Judge has ruled in favour of media silence throughout this trial; other than old fashioned pencil and paper crime story journalists and artists. After verdict, evidence will probably be made available to journalists. Podcasters will continue to find evidence photos through news outlets.

FYI: In this country evidence becomes the public record available to the public the moment it's submitted in court. (exception being if evidence is sealed).
JMHO

 

[MassGuy]

That is 100% unconstitutional.

I’m not a constitutional lawyer, so I’ll defer to you on that.

What I will say is the press is supposed to act as the public’s eyes and ears in the courtroom, so it follows that they’d be allowed to analyze the exhibits up close.

It also makes sense that due to time constraints, they wouldn’t want to extend that access to people who are not credentialed press.

 

[Dhighsmith]

Thanks for any, and all of these updates. It's hard to get caught up on the thread so I am just searching via your screen name LOL.

Absolutely agree.
You can select “Follow” to receive notification of post, I just did so hopefully will make it easier to locate their updates.

 

[Melted]

I’m not a constitutional lawyer, so I’ll defer to you on that.

What I will say is the press is supposed to act as the public’s eyes and ears in the courtroom, so it follows that they’d be allowed to analyze the exhibits up close.

It also makes sense that due to time constraints, they wouldn’t want to extend that access to people who are not credentialed press.

<modsnip>

Indiana Rules on Access to Court Records

 

[MassGuy]

<modsnip>

Indiana Rules on Access to Court Records

There is nothing in there that says a judge must immediately grant the public access to trial exhibits. What are you referring to, what rule did this judge break, and why is it “unconstitutional?”

I’ve followed cases with similar restrictions where there wasn’t even an opportunity for the media to look over trial exhibits.

I guess those judges were also violating the constitution?

 

[Emma Peel]

I've been to several trials in the general audience. When court is adjourned, I can't imagine I'd be allowed to stay after and go up and look at the exhibits up close. I've never seen that happen. When court it adjourned, the citizens attending are sent on their way.

If there's allowance in the court for exhibit review, you'd be able. Otherwise records are immediately available via visiting court records/ system. I think the point here is there is allowance for exhibit review daily, but only for media by Judge's discretion. JMHO

 

[katydid23]

Do you have a link for this (that the State did test the hair)?

Thank you.

Common sense prevails. They cannot know it was female hair, nor that it was familial DNA to Libby, without someone testing it. We know the Defense didn't, so must have been the State.[and Kelsi said she has given them DNA several times over the years]

Besides, they found someone's hair on the murder victim. Do we really think they didn't test it to see whose it was?

 

[otto]

I’m just going off what I have heard so far about his confessions and his mental state during said confessions.

I have seen first hand how solitary confinement can take the most hardened lifelong criminals (nearly the opposite of Richard Allen) and completely break them in less than a month.

I have also personally suffered a psychotic break with reality, twice. One time I was fully convinced I had been shot in the head even thought I hadn’t had contact with anyone, in my mind I truly believed a biker gang had came and shot me. I ended up laying on the sidewalk without a shadow of a doubt that I had been shot in my head and I was currently dying, going so far as to wish that I could have a chance to say goodbye to my daughter until police and paramedics showed up, they put me in a 8 point restraint and even in the ambulance when the paramedic was trying to give me a shot of whatever calms you down I thought he was part of said biker gang and was there to finish the job.

Needless to say, none of this really happened and if nothing that I said while suffering that psychotic episode should in any way whatsoever be interpreted as reality.

This is why it is so interesting to me that Richard Allen confessed to killing his family, that’s the type of thing I can imagine someone suffering a psychotic episode to say and I am sure at the time that the accusations made against him were weighing extremely heavy on his mind.

Add on to this we know that he was literally eating his own feces and paperwork and smashing his head against the wall it paints the picture of a completely mentally broken man, and nothing said by him during the time he was locked down in solitary confinement having a psychotic break should be taken as truth.

And from the only 2 confessions we heard, which are he shot the girls in the back and buried them in a shallow grave and that he murdered his family, we know that those are NOT true.

Whether he is guilty or not is another story completely. In my opinion, taking the ramblings of a man who’s having a mental breakdown in solitary confinement in a maximum security state prison as evidence is harrowing.

Did the accused make a confession, or did he say something that only the killer could know?