Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #200

[DangeRanger]

Unless the female relative was personally experiencing hair loss, why would a handful of it be inside of Abby’s hand? Especially after she was brutally murdered. IMO

Where did you read a handful of hair was found?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

That standard is for the prosecution to prove not the defence.

The defense doesn't have to prove anything.

The defense does not have to prove anything. The prosecution always has the burden to prove their case, and they must prove every element of the charge beyond a reasonable doubt.

What Does the Defense Have to Prove? - Cody Warner, P.C.

If you’ve been charged with a crime, learn how NYC criminal defense attorney Cody Warner can help with your defense. Free consultation available today.

codywarnercriminaldefense.com

 

[Warwick7]

Can someone please clear something up for me?
Did the search parties search the area where Abby and Libby were eventually found BEFORE they were found? In other words, did they not find their bodies under the tree the first time they looked there? OR did they not search that area until they actually found Abby and Libby? That would be the first time that area was searched when they found the girls.
I hope that makes sense.
Thank you,
Tricia

@Tricia
Most of what was gleaned from msm and testimony was they worked down stream of the bridge, not up stream or over the creak that first day. They thought the girls had fallen off the bridge.

"Mullin, who also testified on Saturday, explained the day following the girls' disappearance, he set up a command center at the Delphi Fire Department and coordinated searches.

He noted that the original searches were "downstream."

"Carroll County Investigator Steve Mullin, who was chief of police in Delphi at the time of the murders, explained that law enforcement was working on the assumption that the teens had met with an accident and perhaps fallen from the bridge in which case they would have been washed downstream"

Delphi murders trial: Emotional witness recounts finding bodies on Day 2 of testimony

In Day 2 of testimony in the Delphi murders trial, a witness described the moment he discovered the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

www.nbcchicago.com

Family friend recalls horrific discovery at Delphi double murder trial

Local man, Patrick 'Pat' Brown found the girls' bodies around noon on Tuesday February 14, 2017, and thought they were 'mannequins.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[rez125]

The defense doesn't have to prove anything.

What Does the Defense Have to Prove? - Cody Warner, P.C.

If you’ve been charged with a crime, learn how NYC criminal defense attorney Cody Warner can help with your defense. Free consultation available today.

codywarnercriminaldefense.com

Thank you but I've never stated otherwise.

 

[iamshadow21]

Unless the female relative was personally experiencing hair loss, why would a handful of it be inside of Abby’s hand? Especially after she was brutally murdered. IMO

A hair - singular.

A borrowed hoodie from KG.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have medium to long hair, and I get hairs on the inside of my jumpers and hoodies all the time.

And sometimes, I shove my hand through a sleeve, and occasionally, it'll come out with a hair wrapped over my fingers.

We know Abby redressed. Possibly one of the last things she did was push her hands though those sleeves of that borrowed hoodie.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Thank you but I've never stated otherwise.

Just helping with a link.

 

[katydid23]

Unless the female relative was personally experiencing hair loss, why would a handful of it be inside of Abby’s hand? Especially after she was brutally murdered. IMO

Because it was not a 'handful.' It was a few hairs from what was reported. How many hairs come off of a hairbrush or curlers or hair clips that get tangled. Or ponytail holders?

How many hairs did I find on my daughter's clothes when I did wash? She'd brush her hair and often some would be left on her hoodies or T-shirts. She'd pull hr hair out of her ponytail and the elastic band would be full of her hair.

 

[ClearAhead]

Could you please provide a link/source that states that the 20K worth of testing was for this hair?

Thanks!

While this link doesn’t specifically indicate the $20k was spent on the hair found on Abby’s hand, IMO it’s similar to NM’s question to potential jurors ‘how do they know he’s an attorney’. Sometimes it’s safe to go with logic.

Surely everyone following this case is familiar with genetic genealogy? It’s was a topic often discussed in this case if DNA was available. So indeed, assuming the hair was sent for genetic genealogy testing, it was determined to belong to the family lineage of a female relative of Libby German. Not very enlightening, considering Abby slept in the German’s house, travelled in a German’s car, and wore a German’s sweatshirt. What’s the point of continuing to narrow it down if the genetic results conclusively point toward female German family members, all of who were cleared? I’m sure we’ll learn more as the trial progresses. JMO

Over $1 million has been spent on the Delphi murders trial; how much more will be spent?

Of the $1 million spent so far, $581,605 is considered expenses for Richard Allen’s defense.

www.wthr.com

State Police Costs
….

• $20,000 for genetic genealogy

 

[TTF14]

While this link doesn’t specifically indicate what the $20k was spent on, IMO it’s similar to NM’s question to potential jurors ‘how do they know he’s an attorney’. Surely everyone following this case is familiar with genetic genealogy? It’s was a topic often discussed in this case if DNA was available. So indeed, assuming the hair was sent for genetic genealogy testing, it was determined to belong to the family lineage of a female relative of Libby German. Not very enlightening, considering Abby slept in the German’s house, travelled in a German’s car, and wore a German’s sweatshirt. I’m sure we’ll learn more as the trial progresses. JMO

Over $1 million has been spent on the Delphi murders trial; how much more will be spent?

Of the $1 million spent so far, $581,605 is considered expenses for Richard Allen’s defense.

www.wthr.com

State Police Costs
….

• $20,000 for genetic genealogy

I asked because I'm wondering if the 20K was for some other DNA we don't know about. We learned from Fox News' Angela Ganote that she was instructed to remove mention of DNA way back in 2017. Maybe there is other DNA we don't know about that the media has been instructed not to talk about. We don't know, just from reading this article, if the 20K was for the hair or not.

As always, JMO.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I can provide a link showing the P did spend 20k on genealogy testing. It does not specify it was for this hair, but common sense would say it was.

What would be more important to test than hair found in a victim's hand?

And Kelsi has said that she gave them her DNA several times starting in 2017.

Besides, they could ONLY know it was female hair if it was DNA tested . And they could only know it was familial DNA if it was genealogy tested. So we know it was tested.

I think the defendant in this case would strongly disagree with that. IMO

 

[ClearAhead]

I asked because I'm wondering if the 20K was for some other DNA we don't know about. We learned from Fox News' Angela Ganote that she was instructed to remove mention of DNA way back in 2017. Maybe there is other DNA we don't know about that the media has been instructed not to talk about. We don't know, just from reading this article, if the 20K was for the hair or not.

As always, JMO.

Yes you’re right but it’s quite clear genetic genealogy testing was involved in the hair. Otherwise how would it be known it belonged to a female relative of Libby’s? That’s precisely the type of information that genetic genealogy determines.

 

[sunshineray]

The search was called off at one point and not resumed until 6 am. I acknowledge that some searchers continued despite that but many less than were there earlier. I can’t remember when the search was called off. I know LE have taken some flak for that. MOO

I was rewatching a documentary about Delphi, it's free to watch on Roku.

It's also on a lot of streaming channels like MAX, Apple TV, Hulu, Amazon, Sling etc...

It's called...
Down The Hill:The Delphi Murders a HLN(CNN) two part documentary.

On Part One of the documentary is where the overnight search for the girls is discussed.

At 1:30am the fireman Sterrett had talked to the Sheriff to tell him he wanted to send his volunteers home, they all had to go to work the next day and had been searching for hours.

At 15:35 in video fireman Sterrett said at 2:30am he got a call back from the Sheriff. The lastest phone ping to the cell tower was giving a location in the area of the Monon High Bridge, come down with some lighting.

BP stated she had [previously] at 1:30am begged them not to stop searching as it was getting cold out. At around the 15:46 in video, BP says "Mike says they're not stopping".

 

[rez125]

I was rewatching a documentary about Delphi, it's free to watch on Roku.

It's also on a lot of streaming channels like MAX, Apple TV, Hulu, Amazon, Sling etc...

It's called...
Down The Hill:The Delphi Murders a HLN(CNN) two part documentary.

On Part One of the documentary is where the overnight search for the girls is discussed.

At 1:30am the fireman Sterrett had talked to the Sheriff to tell him he wanted to send his volunteers home, they all had to go to work the next day and had been searching for hours.

At 15:35 in video fireman Sterrett said at 2:30am he got a call back from the Sheriff. The lastest phone ping to the cell tower was giving a location in the area of the Monon High Bridge, come down with some lighting.

BP stated she had [previously] at 1:30am begged them not to stop searching as it was getting cold out. At around the 15:46 in video, BP says "Mike says they're not stopping".

Interesting. Which side said the search concluded at 2am? I can't remember.

 

[shonyakay]

It's just a short distance away. L's sister said she watched them go down the trail and at some point she was talking on the phone. We'll see what is said during the trial about it.

A very short distance away.
The long building was the Hoosier Harveststore in February 2017. I placed a Red Dot where Kelsi would have dropped the girls' off across from the Mear's farm.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Because it was not a 'handful.' It was a few hairs from what was reported. How many hairs come off of a hairbrush or curlers or hair clips that get tangled. Or ponytail holders?

How many hairs did I find on my daughter's clothes when I did wash? She'd brush her hair and often some would be left on her hoodies or T-shirts. She'd pull hr hair out of her ponytail and the elastic band would be full of her hair.

Whatever the amount of stands of hair, the fact that it was found in her hand after being put through, God only knows what horrors, if she was found dead with it still inside of her hand, that would indicate she grabbed it from someone’s head right before she was killed. A very smart move on her part, I might add. IMO

 

[Spartygirl]

Unless the female relative was personally experiencing hair loss, why would a handful of it be inside of Abby’s hand? Especially after she was brutally murdered. IMO

I Never heard it was a HANDFULL of hair

only a strand of hair.

Huge difference

He also said that a strand of hair found on Abby's fingers — evidence that was not made public in the case — is not from Allen or the girls and that testing should be done to see if it matches one of the girls' relatives.

Delphi murders trial: Richard Allen used power and fear to kill teen victims, prosecutors say

Allen is charged in the 2017 murders of Abigail Williams, 13, and Liberty German, 14. His lawyers proclaimed his innocence during his trial in Carroll County, Indiana.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[ClearAhead]

Yes, I do.

Well then we shall await to hear the neighbour’s testimony as to the specific areas he searched in the darkness. According to what to Mullen, ex-Delphi police chief testified to, it may well have been along the creek bank only.

There’s sometimes the assumption the bodies were laying out in an open, easily seen flat space but others have said they were found in a bowl shaped area. MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

A very short distance away.
The long building was the Hoosier Harveststore in February 2017. I placed a Red Dot where Kelsi would have dropped the girls' off across from the Mear's farm.

That's true. The actual time of arrival has been disputed. I believe the Ds will go deep into the timeline and we'll learn a more accurate time of arrival from their phone logs.

 

[ClearAhead]

Unless the female relative was personally experiencing hair loss, why would a handful of it be inside of Abby’s hand? Especially after she was brutally murdered. IMO

Handful of hair? Who said that?

 

[shonyakay]

A very short distance away.
The long building was the Hoosier Harveststore in February 2017. I placed a Red Dot where Kelsi would have dropped the girls' off across from the Mear's farm.

There appears to be a huge tree in front of the Hoosier Harveststore.

I wonder if it obstructed any view of the area of interest like someone walking down 300 N?