Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #200

[Simply Southern]

The First Amendment and common law rights give the public access to judicial proceedings and records, including evidence.

The Sixth Amendment guarantees the right to a public trial.

Respectfully ....
Neither amendment address media access or release of information. These address right to free speech and a speedy trial.

First Amendment​

First Amendment Explained


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

 

[ClearAhead]

Or maybe later on in the trial they will introduce evidence of yelling or screams heard at some other time of day/night, so they are laying the groundwork?

As always, JMO.

I’m guessing you follow BM?

 

[MissTilly]

as a child victim of an attempted abduction, i find this case difficult to follow.
i was fortunate to survive, when the perpetrator told me he had a weapon, was going to sexually assault me and kill me - i believed him. the act of fleeing before he shoved me into his vehicle was not conscious, my body just took over.
afterwards i researched possible responses, the common ones being fight, flight, freeze or appease and confirmed that it is usually not a conscious choice and can vary greatly depending on circumstances. you don’t know how you will react and your reaction maybe different in another situation.
the most frightening thing was that I was screaming but didn’t make a sound
moo

 

[AugustWest]

Respectfully ....
Neither amendment address media access or release of information. These address right to free speech and a speedy trial.

First Amendment​

First Amendment Explained


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

The Constitution doesn't exist in a vacuum. Caselaw expands on its meaning.

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt1-9-1/ALDE_00000395/#:~:text=First%20Amendment%3A,for%20a%20redress%20of%20grievances.

From above:

At the same time, the Court has recognized that laws targeting the press, or treating different subsets of media outlets differently, may sometimes violate the First Amendment.

See also:

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep297/usrep297233/usrep297233.pdf

The outcry is not about the exhibits being excluded in their entirety, because they are being offered for view. The issue has to do with credentialed media vs. general public.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Are members of the press in the courtroom covering and reporting to the public what's happening in this trial?

Yes, the tiny Courthouse only seats approx 72. The Defense has their seats, The Prosecution theirs, the families are assigned their seats and 12 are for Credentialed Media members. The rest, not many, are open to the public.

So this is an open and public trial, maybe not to the liking of some or all, but it is what it is. In the State of IN the Judge has the decision to televise the hearing, trials as they see fit.

MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Unspent bullet. Found at the scene, not because police left it there, but because it was found between the two bodies, neither of which were shot - according to trial evidence thus far. Why was the bullet between the bodies and where did it come from?

It's too much of a leap to agree that because both girls died of different cuts to the neck, it means that two people were involved using difference blades. Hunting knives include sharp and edged blades. Ask Kohlberger.

Does anyone remember how Richard Allen was first identified and arrested? I vaguely recall that he was arrested after he was asked to provide finger prints related to theft from his neighbour's shed. Did his finger prints lead to a search of his property in relation to Libby and Abby's murders? Why?

Can you please provide a link to your source that states that RA was asked to provide finger prints related to a theft from a neighbor’s shed.

Thank you

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The Constitution doesn't exist in a vacuum. Caselaw expands on its meaning.

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt1-9-1/ALDE_00000395/#:~:text=First%20Amendment%3A,for%20a%20redress%20of%20grievances.

From above:

See also:

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep297/usrep297233/usrep297233.pdf

The outcry is not about the exhibits being excluded in their entirety, because they are being offered for view. The issue has to do with credentialed media vs. general public.

You mention an issue with credentialed media vs the general public. I haven't followed this case closely and wonder what this issue is about. Thanks.

 

[SouthEnd]

You mention an issue with credentialed media vs the general public. I haven't followed this case closely and wonder what this issue is about. Thanks.

Bob Motta's wife AM, a podcast cohost, who was attending the trial as a guest for the Defence, attempted to view the trial exhibits that were only available for viewing to the press and got told off by JG. There is a debate whether the trial exhibits should be viewable to only accredited press or the entire public, during those viewings that JG has arranged.

Source: https://murdersheetpodcast.com/

 

[AugustWest]

You mention an issue with credentialed media vs the general public. I haven't followed this case closely and wonder what this issue is about. Thanks.

Gull is allowing credentialed (legacy) media, such as local news stations, to view the exhibits, but not allowing alternate media sources like Youtubers and podcasters to do the same. I'm not making judgment or offering an opinion on her decision, just pointing out the issue.

 

[TTF14]

Completely agree to disagree, but I'd wonder why else would BM be invited to attend on the D side. For me the knowledge of DT strategy before they actually file, is quite clear, simply by clicking on the posts his official reddit profile has made and looking at the dates.

I'm not big on conspiracies but in this case there is a lot of evidence of gaming the system for the public to follow.

All MOO

I admittedly haven't performed this deep level of analysis on BM.

As always, JMO.

 

[Inthedetails]

Dear @scapa

Thank you for this information !

Zen! Haven't seen you in a long time! Nice to see your name pop up on the thread.

jmo

 

[MiniMoo]

Ignore - wasn't inserting just yet.

 

[TTF14]

Gull is allowing credentialed (legacy) media, such as local news stations, to view the exhibits, but not allowing alternate media sources like Youtubers and podcasters to do the same. I'm not making judgment or offering an opinion on her decision, just pointing out the issue.

In my opinion, it's representative of the change in tide of how we (have so many more options to) consume our news nowadays. We're no longer bound to just outlets owned by huge conglomerates, thank God. There are many areas of society (including individuals), not just the courtroom, that will have to play catch-up. With regard to the courtroom, though, I wonder if younger judges are more open to it than more mature judges. Might make an interesting doctoral thesis, were I so inclined to go back to school.

As always, JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Gull is allowing credentialed (legacy) media, such as local news stations, to view the exhibits, but not allowing alternate media sources like Youtubers and podcasters to do the same. I'm not making judgment or offering an opinion on her decision, just pointing out the issue.

Personally, that's a decision I have no problem with, as that's where the vast majority of people get their information about this case. I've followed many cases where no one was privy to the exhibits until following trial, so I'm happy to get something.

As for the rest of it, I hate it. At the very least, credentialed media should have access to their devices so we can get real-time updates. It's a major trial, and public access is limited. If you're not going to have audio or cameras, at least throw the public that bone.

 

[asmi106082]

Just a thought that popped into my head. Why would he let Abby redress herself if he intended to kill and leave them there?

I don’t think he let her redress herself. It was stated she had her clothes and Libby’s clothes on so it sounds like he redressed her himself. MOO

 

[AugustWest]

In my opinion, it's representative of the change in tide of how we (have so many more options to) consume our news nowadays. We're no longer bound to just outlets owned by huge conglomerates, thank God. There are many areas of society (including individuals), not just the courtroom, that will have to play catch-up. With regard to the courtroom, though, I wonder if younger judges are more open to it than more mature judges. Might make an interesting doctoral thesis, were I so inclined to go back to school.

As always, JMO.

Just don't send me back there. I ain't taking another bar exam.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Gull is allowing credentialed (legacy) media, such as local news stations, to view the exhibits, but not allowing alternate media sources like Youtubers and podcasters to do the same. I'm not making judgment or offering an opinion on her decision, just pointing out the issue.

Thanks.
In my opinion someone with a cell phone and a YouTube channel doesn't make them a journalist.

 

[MiniMoo]

Around 52:26 Lawyer Lee mentions something that she found as being a really unusual question by the Defense although it was argued as being outside the scope and sustained.

Baldwin: "And are there feral animals and coyotes in that area?"

I'd be curious to know why it was asked and what it implied as well.

Not sure if it can be introduced to the trial in a different way as it progresses, but would sure like to know why it was brought up.

Are there any Defense Attorneys here that could shed some light on that at all?

JMO JMT MOO

 

[TTF14]

Around 52:26 Lawyer Lee mentions something that she found as being a really unusual question by the Defense although it was argued as being outside the scope and sustained.

Baldwin: "And are there feral animals and coyotes in that area?"

I'd be curious to know why it was asked and what it implied as well.

Not sure if it can be introduced to the trial in a different way as it progresses, but would sure like to know why it was brought up.

Are there any Defense Attorneys here that could shed some light on that at all?

JMO JMT MOO

Interesting. And it probably doesn't even matter that it was sustained. He got the question in and got the jurors thinking....about what, we don't know.

Also, are there coyotes there?

As always, JMO.

 

[ClearAhead]

Unspent bullet. Found at the scene, not because police left it there, but because it was found between the two bodies, neither of which were shot - according to trial evidence thus far. Why was the bullet between the bodies and where did it come from?

It's too much of a leap to agree that because both girls died of different cuts to the neck, it means that two people were involved using difference blades. Hunting knives include sharp and edged blades. Ask Kohlberger.

Does anyone remember how Richard Allen was first identified and arrested? I vaguely recall that he was arrested after he was asked to provide finger prints related to theft from his neighbour's shed. Did his finger prints lead to a search of his property in relation to Libby and Abby's murders? Why?

The official story of RA’s identification/arrest is described below, upon the 60,000 or 70,000 tips being revisited. The ‘clerical error’ in mention has since been attributed to the tip being filed under the last name of what was his street address at the time - Richard Whitman.

‘Clerical error’ may have led police to overlook Richard Allen in Delphi case

DELPHI, Ind. – Why now? That’s one of the biggest questions surrounding the arrest of Richard Allen, who’s charged with murdering Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017. It appears a “cler…

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