Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201

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I think the boxcutter came from RA's confessions and people ran with it. MOO

From the SW, I see 15 knives were collected from RA but I suppose a box cutter might be considered a "multi-tool."

 
I think the parts of the video we have seen aren't very helpful in identifying anyone. He was wearing some kind of face covering according to witness. The frames from the video released to the public even after enhancement are very grainy/blurry I dont think I would recognize someone's face in that. But he put himself there. Wearing the same clothes we see in the video. So either he is bridge guy and bridge guy didn't kill Abby and Libby or a guy wearing the same clothes as he says he was wearing was on the bridge at that time and killed the girls and RA has nothing to do with it.
When you say “he puts himself there” what are you referring to?

Is it the dullin report that the recording of got lost and the note had his street address as his last name?

If so, a nothingburger imo.

He puts himself gone from the trails by 215 according to recorded interrogation.

JMO
 
And that supports he was familiar with the area. Makes me wonder how often he'd been there and if he knew where to take them after the interruption. In other words he had them trapped and under control.
Moo
He knew it was a great place to "watch fish," as one does, so it stands to reason he had a good degree of familiarity with the area.
 
The problem for RA is he said he's never been on RL's property with his gun and he's never let anyone borrow it.. since the crime scene was not his property, no reason for a round from his gun to be in that location.

I'd say he had a better chance of concealing them with those branches/sticks if he had them positioned closer together. Could be his idea with putting the branches on them and moving Libby to a better position.. maybe trying to get her more behind that tree. It's hard to say without seeing the actual photos, which I don't wish to see.
I recall maybe this “man in black” story but it no longer appears online. It was repeated to the media by a friend of a friend or something and I wondered about it. If ever there’s thoughts back to somebody who later turns out might be a bad guy, odds are it’s going to be a “man in black”, never a man in white or green. JMO
Same. I remember the man in all black being mentioned early on and it can be found in earlier threads here.
 
From the SW, I see 15 knives were collected from RA but I suppose a box cutter might be considered a "multi-tool."

Possibly but usually a box cutter is a specific tool. I thought I saw what CVS buys for their employees described as a disposable box cutter. That could well be one of those with snap-off blades. IMO he didn't use a box cutter.
 
So...

If she is 5.7 ft and Richard Allen is 5.4 ft or 5.5 ft and the male she saw was supposedly taller than her it has to be someone else.

Richard Allen was there that day as he put himself there, but if these heights are anything to go by whoever she saw can't be Richard Allen.

JMO MOO JMT

Yeah. A man that short is overtly obvious, it just is. It's the first thing you'd mention if you were ID'ing a grown man standing at 5'4".
 
This is just my opinion

RA is a VERY short man. Only 5% of adult males are 5’4 or shorter, that would be what someone notices about Richard Allen if there was a brief interaction: “that was a short man”. It would stand out much more than his clothing or his mood “he didn’t seem very happy” before any of that it would be “short man”

It seems as if out of the 4 witnesses so far, nobody has described a short man. Instead they have all been pretty close to putting the man around 5’10… half a foot taller than 5’4…. The same difference between someone who is 5’8 and 6’2 to put it in perspective.

RA does not = BG for this reason alone.

MOO

Edited to add source

 
So...

If she is 5.7 ft and Richard Allen is 5.4 ft or 5.5 ft and the male she saw was supposedly taller than her it has to be someone else.

Richard Allen was there that day as he put himself there, but if these heights are anything to go by whoever she saw can't be Richard Allen.

JMO MOO JMT
Honestly, I have no faith in ppl's ability to estimate heights. I generally think I'm taller than I am to the point where it's become a running joke - I thought a 6' person whom I've worked with was maybe an inch taller than me until we hugged for the first time. I was off by... 4 or 5 inches.

Again, IMO eyewitnesses are only pebbles that add to BARD.

MOO
 
Yeah. A man that short is overtly obvious, it just is. It's the first thing you'd mention if you were ID'ing a grown man standing at 5'4".

Short, tall, petite, same height would be normal descriptions we would use, I reckon.

If someone was taller we wouldn't miss it nor if they were shorter.

Can't be the same man!

JMO MOO JMT
 
Honestly, I have no faith in ppl's ability to estimate heights. I generally think I'm taller than I am to the point where it's become a running joke - I thought a 6' person whom I've worked with was maybe an inch taller than me until we hugged for the first time. I was off by... 4 or 5 inches.

Again, IMO eyewitnesses are only pebbles that add to BARD.

MOO

That's all well and good if you're estimating a height that isn't at one end of the spectrum. They can all blend in.

This is an obvious feature and would have been mentioned IMO.
 
I remember we played this game in a criminal justice class in college. The professor was giving class as normal, and someone walked in and asked her a question, and walked out. Quite a while later, she asked us all to write down a description of the man who had entered the room earlier. Heights were wildly off, clothing was wildly off; it was really eye opening. The point being that eye witness identification can be very problematic.

Oh, you’ve reminded me of something I did annually for 25 years.

On the first or second day of class (8th graders), as an opening exercise on the use of detail in writing, I used to ask for a volunteer to sit in another classroom for ten minutes.

Then I’d ask the remaining students to describe that child. Height, weight, clothing, hairstyle etc.

As you’ve experienced on the college level, my students, the same ages as Abby and Libby, would have answers that were all over the place. Blue eyes or brown eyes, wearing a purple sweatshirt or a green T-shirt, hair in a ponytail or loose, 5’2” or 4’ 3”, 100 lbs or 70 lbs, black sneakers or brown shoes….

As a beginning of the year exercise, the kids had a good laugh when I called the student back to the room.

Of course I never said in advance that they’d have to describe the child’s appearance. Then they would have studied it, which IMO is similar to what happened here.

As has been said so often by so many of us——prior to the girls going missing, especially before they were found to be murdered, anyone passing BG on the bridge would not necessarily register the details of some average person walking nearby.

Only in retrospect would it be imperative to recall the details of whom they saw, and that’s much trickier than it seems.

Thanks for the reminder. I’ve been retired for a few years and had forgotten all about it, but I completely concur.

JMO and experience.
 
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Yeah. A man that short is overtly obvious, it just is. It's the first thing you'd mention if you were ID'ing a grown man standing at 5'4".

This is just my opinion

RA is a VERY short man. Only 5% of adult males are 5’4 or shorter, that would be what someone notices about Richard Allen if there was a brief interaction: “that was a short man”. It would stand out much more than his clothing or his mood “he didn’t seem very happy” before any of that it would be “short man”

It seems as if out of the 4 witnesses so far, nobody has described a short man. Instead they have all been pretty close to putting the man around 5’10… half a foot taller than 5’4…. The same difference between someone who is 5’8 and 6’2 to put it in perspective.

RA does not = BG for this reason alone.

MOO

Edited to add source

Agreed. A 5’4” man is as overt a trait as a 6’2 woman. More so than an unusual hair color. You’d notice that unique height first of anything. I’m not seeing it so far.
 
It's odd, but at the same time, Allen admits to seeing three juveniles at around the same time they say they saw him. And it's he who admits to wearing the type of clothing BG was wearing.

I remember we played this game in a criminal justice class in college. The professor was giving class as normal, and someone walked in and asked her a question, and walked out. Quite a while later, she asked us all to write down a description of the man who had entered the room earlier. Heights were wildly off, clothing was wildly off; it was really eye opening. The point being that eye witness identification can be very problematic.
I agree. But IMO, the exact identification is not important in this context. The purpose of these witnesses is not to identify Richard Allen.

The point is, multiple people told investigators they saw a guy resembling BG, around the bridge, at a certain time (that seems not to have been recorded in the media reports), and he was alone.

<modsnip>

JMO
 
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When you say “he puts himself there” what are you referring to?

Is it the dullin report that the recording of got lost and the note had his street address as his last name?

If so, a nothingburger imo.

He puts himself gone from the trails by 215 according to recorded interrogation.

JMO

Where is the interrogation? I didn't know there was an interrogation available to watch! Or read
 
Nope, that came years and years later, through a non lawyer associate of the DT taking photos of discovery evidence at the law office and disseminating them through the internet.

MOO
The Defense Team left their crime scene photos unsecured and allowed access by a person without clearance. I believe intentionally.
 
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This is just my opinion

RA is a VERY short man. Only 5% of adult males are 5’4 or shorter, that would be what someone notices about Richard Allen if there was a brief interaction: “that was a short man”. It would stand out much more than his clothing or his mood “he didn’t seem very happy” before any of that it would be “short man”

It seems as if out of the 4 witnesses so far, nobody has described a short man. Instead they have all been pretty close to putting the man around 5’10… half a foot taller than 5’4…. The same difference between someone who is 5’8 and 6’2 to put it in perspective.

RA does not = BG for this reason alone.

MOO

Edited to add source

Maybe they did see a completely different man; it's theoretically possible. None of that cancels out the fact that Allen says he was there, and that he freely admits he was dressed like BG.

But Allen says he saw three females, and three females say they saw him. There's almost no chance that one of them would not have come forward early on. As I described in my example earlier, witness descriptions can be way off.

His clothing description was his first confession.
 
Have we ever heard from what distance Betsy Blair saw bridge guy? And if it wasn't particularly nearby, were there items around him that she would have used consciously or unconsciously to try to determine his height?
She was at the north bridge abutment, RA was on platform 1.
 
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