Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201

[MiniMoo]

“No, it did not cover them at all. Their bodies were clearly visible in the photos. The branches were pretty small with the exception of a large limb laying on top of Libby. Based on seeing the photos today, I don’t think the branches were there to try and hide them.”

From that same tweet

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848519035270349247

If this is true it may not be an undoing either.

Why weren't they collected for evidence straight away though? That is what I want to know!

Just sticks no branches.

I thought it was a combination of branches and sticks.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[MassGuy]

Russell Williams was like that too. He was the most unlikely person to have a string of underwear burglaries, rapes and murders, but it happened when he was in his 50s. He was a Canadian Colonel who flew planes for Queen Elizabeth, but Williams became more careless over time. Perhaps he believed that he was above reproach. I don't think anyone believes that he started terrorizing women in his 50s, but there are no other known victims from when he was younger.

The murders during his fifties started with sneaking into women and children's bedrooms, stealing underwear, then raping women and filming it, then raping, filming and murdering women, then keeping them for several days before murdering them and attempting to frame the neighbour. Did Richard Allen commit any other offences between 2017 and 2022, when he was arrested. Joran van der Sloot murdered exactly 5 years after the first murder.

I'm curious to hear more about how Richard Allen was ruled out for Evansdale July 2012 cousin murders. Were they covered with a couple of branches? I don't recall. Were they killed with knives because it is quieter? They were identified by clothing, but were there any cut marks on their necks, especially Lyric?

One issue with that one is that you're talking about 400 miles, and in both cases, the killer would have been familiar with those respective areas. I know that investigators from both cases have communicated with one another, and shared evidence. Nothing ever came of it, and the details regarding those girls' murders are closely guarded. They were bones when they were found, which did obviously complicate things.

 

[katydid23]

In the FM, the D said they had three pics of it in the ground but nothing after that. They did find one from the lab but there was nothing in between.

So there was really no visual proof that the bullet found at the scene was the same one that ended up in the lab.
MOO

Why would they bother taking the wrong bullet to the lab? Wouldn't they want to test a bullet from the crime scene?

BTW, they didn't know anything about RA at the time. Didn't know of him or if he had a gun or what kind.

And it would be impossible to switch up the bullet after it was already sent to the State Lab. Too many people involved for something like that.


As for the 'lack of pictures' taken of it being picked up, that seems like a weird criticism. They take hundreds of pictures during a murder investigation, but I've never seen pix of the objects being picked up or put in the envelope. That seems unnecessary. Sounds like something the defense is making up to make things seem sketchy. IMO

 

[katydid23]

The D expected LE to have visually followed the bullet’s movement from being taken out of the ground and then transported to the lab? How’s that expected to be accomplished, by 24/7 video camera or what? Wow they’re desperately reaching toward the preposterous!

Are investigators supposed to do that with every piece of evidence? Each piece should be photographed numerous times between finding it at crime scene and it arriving at the lab? I've never heard of anything like that.

Chain of custody is maintained by a paper trail recording the sequence of custody and transfer to and from the evidence locker, all actions documented in a Chain of Custody Log.

EXACTLY.

 

[mrjitty]

In the latest Murder Sheet episode, at around 38 minutes, they mention the yellow rope that was used by investigators to help cordon off areas that weren’t free to walk through yet.

Presumably the same yellow rope in Franks 1 that the defense claims may have been used to “[hang] Abby on a tree stringing her up by her feet” (page 39).

That is… certainly something.

All my opinion.

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Three: The Crime Scene

We discuss the third day of Richard Allen's trial, which saw the jury view graphic crime scene pictures. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a t-shirt here:...

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FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

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A few days ago i said RA is either the victim of a grave injustice or the defence perpetuated a gigantic hoax.

i know which way i am leaning. The Franks was full of wild speculation that it’s authors knew was untrue. Who was that rope comment for? certainly not the Judge IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848574593726034325

I'd love to know who was BM's source which led to her promoting the bullet conspiracy. It feels very coordinated to me between the speculation in motions about lack of COC and her claiming it was found later. Hey presto you have a conspiracy about the key piece of evidence - none of which turns out to be true. It was found immediately. It was.photographed in situ. Multiple COC witnesses exist.

Will we eventually learn the source was one of the D surrogates who has continuously promoted COC stories?

MOO

 

[otto]

I'm surprised at how much Richard Allen has changed his appearance since 2017. From the sketch, I wonder whether he wore his hair longer prior to the murders. Maybe his family remembers.

Short beard, long beard (changing appearance is profiled with murder investigations), lost weight, looks too weak to throw Libby around while stabbing her in the neck. I hope the jury sees photos of the robust suspect in 2017.

 

[Melted]

Why would they bother taking the wrong bullet to the lab? Wouldn't they want to test a bullet from the crime scene?

BTW, they didn't know anything about RA at the time. Didn't know of him or if he had a gun or what kind.

And it would be impossible to switch up the bullet after it was already sent to the State Lab. Too many people involved for something like that.


As for the 'lack of pictures' taken of it being picked up, that seems like a weird criticism. They take hundreds of pictures during a murder investigation, but I've never seen pix of the objects being picked up or put in the envelope. That seems unnecessary. Sounds like something the defense is making up to make things seem sketchy. IMO

The problem is the bullet was not tested until 2023, 6 years after the crime. We already know and the defense is going to let the jury know how this investigative team clearly has a problem with handling evidence (deleting the first 48 hours of all interviews, losing the recorded tip Dullin supposedly recorded of RA, etc etc)

Where was that bullet for 6 years? Who has access to it? And as the jury asked today… is there anyway the bullet that ended up being tested was not the bullet that was taken from the crime scene.

Moo

 

[iamshadow21]

The problem is the bullet was not tested until 2023, 6 years after the crime. We already know and the defense is going to let the jury know how this investigative team clearly has a problem with handling evidence (deleting the first 48 hours of all interviews, losing the recorded tip Dullin supposedly recorded of RA, etc etc)

Where was that bullet for 6 years? Who has access to it? And as the jury asked today… is there anyway the bullet that ended up being tested was not the bullet that was taken from the crime scene.

Moo

They didn't have anything to compare it to from RA's house until then.

That doesn't mean it was never examined at all.

MOO

 

[otto]

The problem is the bullet was not tested until 2023, 6 years after the crime. We already know and the defense is going to let the jury know how this investigative team clearly has a problem with handling evidence (deleting the first 48 hours of all interviews, losing the recorded tip Dullin supposedly recorded of RA, etc etc)

Where was that bullet for 6 years? Who has access to it? And as the jury asked today… is there anyway the bullet that ended up being tested was not the bullet that was taken from the crime scene.

Moo

I don't think it matters too much.

The bullet in the dirt matches the suspect's gun. Was the chain of custody for the bullet preserved? Hopefully. Coincidence that the bullet in the dirt is consistent with Richard Allen's gun? Mishandled shell casing in the dirt that out of the blue matches the suspect? ... corroborating circumstantial evidence.

Other evidence is more convincing. He was seen walking to the Monon Bridge on the afternoon of the murder, and on the bridge trail around the time that the girls were kidnapped. He was seen walking back to his car after the murders. He confessed to his wife that he murdered the girls, but didn't want her to see the photos.

It's mind-boggling that his wife did not recognize his gait, distinct coat, cap, gun pouch, and appearance when he came home that night. He had to be covered in blood after the frenzied attack on Libby. Did he go straight to the washing machine? His family didn't notice changes like long beard, short hair, unusual behaviour that day?

Sequence of Events ??
Red = Abby
Yellow = Libby

 

[Warwick7]

The problem is the bullet was not tested until 2023, 6 years after the crime. We already know and the defense is going to let the jury know how this investigative team clearly has a problem with handling evidence (deleting the first 48 hours of all interviews, losing the recorded tip Dullin supposedly recorded of RA, etc etc)

Where was that bullet for 6 years? Who has access to it? And as the jury asked today… is there anyway the bullet that ended up being tested was not the bullet that was taken from the crime scene.

Moo

They could have not tested for 20 years. Years passing by does not negate that:

● ammunition is generally made of soft metals like brass, copper and lead...

● the extractor is steel. The ejector is steel. Those are going to scratch that cartridge case as it gets thrown out of the gun...

● marks/scratches, microscopically will be different from gun to gun...

● his round cycled through his firearm, at that location, leaving his scratches behind. When tested that firearm made the exact scratches again.

 

[Warwick7]

They didn't have anything to compare it to from RA's house until then.

That doesn't mean it was never examined at all.

MOO

Exactly. I can have a bread pan that has an unique dent in it. Every loaf I bake will have the marking of that dent. No matter if you test my pan in one day after an incident or 20 years after, the dent will be exactly the same.

 

[otto]

Why did the suspect drag Libby 7-8 feet across the crime scene when she was dying, bleeding out, nearly decapitated? Abby had her neck cut and she died on the spot, not so with Libby. Why was she dragged, bleeding on trees and leaves? What was the suspect thinking?

 

[Niner]

Tuesday, October 22nd:
*Trial continues (Day 4) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-2 (10/18-19/24) reference post #51 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ders-richard-allen-arrested-201.726603/page-3
10/17/24 Update: Motions to be decided:
*State’s Motion in Limine – IPAS - Judge Gull ruled that the defense can use the DOC policy, but not the lawsuit saying, “You don’t need the history of the policy. You have the policy.”"
*State’s Motion in Limine- Tobin – Under advisement.
*Defense’s Response To State’s Motion in Limine-Tobin – Under advisement.
*Motion for Order on Designated Defense Representatives - ??
10/21/24 Docket updates: Motion in Limine [Defendant's regarding videos from Libby’s phone. Allen’s attorneys are asking the court to prohibit the state from “eliciting testimony as to the words & sounds allegedly contain in the video.” The defense refers to the video & audio as being “enhanced.”] filed by Allen [see post #170, page 9 & post #199, page 10, thread 201 ] & Motion to intervene & for Public Access to Court records filed by Andrea Burkhart [post #163, page 9, thread 201].
10/21/24 Monday, Trial Day 3: State witnesses: Carroll County Sheriff Deputy Darren Giancola, first deputy to arrive on scene. ISP Sgt. Jason Page [crime scene investigator; secured & photographed the scene]. Jurors were shown 42 crime scene photos. Indiana State Police Trooper Brian Oleha [documented evidence at crime scene].
For more info see post #99 (Day 3 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ders-richard-allen-arrested-201.726603/page-5
Trial continues on Tuesday, 10/22/24 @ 9am.

 

[mrjitty]

On the branches - obviously we can speculate why this was, but i just don't see it as critical evidence in the case that points one way or another. It's certainly not exculpatory IMO

 

[Melted]

They could have not tested for 20 years. Years passing by does not negate that:

● ammunition is generally made of soft metals like brass, copper and lead...

● the extractor is steel. The ejector is steel. Those are going to scratch that cartridge case as it gets thrown out of the gun...

● marks/scratches, microscopically will be different from gun to gun...

● his round cycled through his firearm, at that location, leaving his scratches behind. When tested that firearm made the exact scratches again.

It’s not the “exact” same scratches, this is a subjective test that if the opinion of the person who performs it. I agree it is a piece of evidence that the jury is going to have to think about during deliberations but it isn’t anything close to dna.

“United States v. Tibbs, 2016-CF1-19431, D.C. Superior Court judge Todd E. Edelman ruled that the prosecution’s firearms and toolmark expert could not testify that a bullet casing and gun “matched”, or that the gun in question was the “source” of the bullet casing—what is known as a “source attribution” statement. Rather, the expert would only be allowed to testify that the firearm “cannot be excluded” as the source of the casing.”

 

[Warwick7]

I added the numbers to the court drawing - trying to understand the sequence of events. Red is Abby, yellow is LIbby.

It almost looks like Abby was sitting, or lying down, when fatally killed (possibly first) with one knife stroke, and Libby, sitting next to her, was cut, but not fatally and could get away briefly, then was she tossed around, into a tree, cut again, she left a bloody L palm print on a tree, onto the ground, cut a third time and nearly decapitated, then dragged to another tree, bled out. It seems so violent.

Why would the suspect have such aggression towards women who resemble Libby? He didn't know her, but he targeted her and was vicious towards her for a reason. Libby seems like the obvious target. Why?

View attachment 539605

@otto not too many things have shook me in this case. (I know they are coming.) After reading your post the scene became very very real. I could actually see it happening as you wrote it out.

It is so disturbing....

 

[girlhasnoname]

Day 8 in #Justice4Abby&Libby​

 

[iamshadow21]

Why did the suspect drag Libby 7-8 feet across the crime scene when she was dying, bleeding out, nearly decapitated? Abby had her neck cut and she died on the spot, not so with Libby. Why was she dragged, bleeding on trees and leaves? What was the suspect thinking?

He'd had a picture in his head, probably for years, possibly for most of his life.

He wanted to make it real.

He wanted to look at both of the girls, as he made them, at the same time. That's difficult to do if one is far away from the other.

So he drags the one who ran back to where the one who didn't lies, and arranges them to his satisfaction.

Then he has that image to keep forever.

Very much my opinion only.

 

[Warwick7]

It’s not the “exact” same scratches, this is a subjective test that if the opinion of the person who performs it. I agree it is a piece of evidence that the jury is going to have to think about during deliberations but it isn’t anything close to dna.

“United States v. Tibbs, 2016-CF1-19431, D.C. Superior Court judge Todd E. Edelman ruled that the prosecution’s firearms and toolmark expert could not testify that a bullet casing and gun “matched”, or that the gun in question was the “source” of the bullet casing—what is known as a “source attribution” statement. Rather, the expert would only be allowed to testify that the firearm “cannot be excluded” as the source of the casing.”

As you said the other day, "the seed is planted in the minds" of the jury so they have it for deliberations.