Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201

[Colinnew]

Definitely got the right guy, all of this evidence is piling up thank goodness!

Just my opinion

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848744666579276184

 

[joe jones]

Thanks. So we don't know how much time the killer used during this crime. I don't see why an hour is not enough time. And I don't see why less than that would unreasonable. JMO.

We all have differing opinions on what reasonable is. My time needed has only stretched since trial began, as two sharp edged weapons were used I learned from day 1 of trial, one serrated one not was also possibly mentioned, I only read about serrated in one report so not sure if that is what was testified too.
Plus the only evidence that a gun was present during crimes is it is supposedly heard on Libby's video, I am really looking forward to that testimony, if defence motion in limine is successful and the jury is to rely on what they hear on the video not what state tells them is on there then maybe some of the jury don't hear the word gun, and if the defence is able to argue that there is no evidence a gun was used during crimes then the bullet which is the only thing putting him at crime scene becomes less relevant IMO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

They kept that quiet so when they did have a person of interest they could possibly get the gun and compare the tool markings then. They use a microcscope. It's a shame we can't hear this evidence because it is fascinating. I've listened to experts in other cases that were tasked with comparing the bullets and it is in my opinion very much like fingerprinting.

Thank you for your reply, that really helped me understand and answer the questions about the markings -

 

[joe jones]

LE doesn' just say "take my word for it" ...

They give sworn testimony, under oath, under penatly of fine and/or imprisonment for committing perjury.

Just as the did yesterday.

I am not as confident in the ethics of LE as you,

 

[Arkay]

Why did the suspect drag Libby 7-8 feet across the crime scene when she was dying, bleeding out, nearly decapitated? Abby had her neck cut and she died on the spot, not so with Libby. Why was she dragged, bleeding on trees and leaves? What was the suspect thinking?

I think it is difficult for us to fathom. Why does anyone murder a stranger (or two) outside of a robbery gone bad or some other reason that makes “sense?”

There is a motive. One that is incomprehensible to those of us who do not murder.

It could be a transitory motive that struck him at the time, or it could be a long-fantasized urge that exploded then.

Or it could well be the explanation that @SouthEnd provided, which is beautifully written and very insightful, and for which I’m sorry you’ve suffered through, Southend.

IMO given how they were found, it still has SA as the base motive and then who knows why else he felt compelled to do what he did?


It seems to me that RA quenched his lust/thirst in committing these heinous killings and slunk back into his ordinary life.

The trial will tell.

IMO

 

[MassGuy]

I’m glad this sexual assault kit nonsense from yesterday has been completely refuted. A ton of confirmation bias was taking place from people who think the investigation issues extend across the board.

Curious about the fibers, and if they found any match to Allen’s clothing or anything.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

The amount of things one perpetrator had to have done in the amount of time he had will always astound me, just getting the two girls down the hill to the spot he needed to get them to cross the river took time, as they wouldn't have any idea where he was directing them too (and over time I think the "down the hill" comment may be a product of LE enhancing the words on the recording and if we watched the video as is we may not dicipher any words) and he would have had to keep directing them to where he wanted them to go.
Then everything else that was done, I will always struggle with the time unless the perpetrator talks and explains in detail how it was done and RA could be that perpetrator, I am at present on the fence about him when pre trial I was a little surer.

We don’t know if there was another person “down the hill” waiting for them.

 

[Willow Knight]

In the quest for justice for the girls, I have to wonder if the “masses” would be willing to have the wrong person held accountable vs no one held accountable

No

Many of us are invested in justice for Abby and Libby. I believe I am speaking for the "masses". Not one person I've chatted with is willing to convict anyone other than the person that is guilty of killing Libby and Abby.

It is the evidence presented that many believe LE has the correct person.

Wish to thank everyone for their updates, this thread moves fast.

Justice for Abby and Libby and their loved ones.

 

[ClearAhead]

I wasn’t saying I believed it, it was more to the point that if the chain of custody had been broken or not as documented as it should have been for the bullet at the crime scene, how might a similar bullet which did match RA’s gun come into existence and end up as evidence in this case

I wasn’t saying that I believed that RA was framed or contemplating better ways to frame him, I was fixating on the bullet markings and if with sloppy chain of custody of original bullet could a new bullet which was cycled through the gun have been relatively easy to create-

I don’t believe that is what happened and OP have provided me with articles and information to better understand both chain of custody for evidence as well as the background for analyzing bullets- this is a very difficult and strange case-

trying to understand the unfamiliar aspects

Moo

If the chain of custody was broken there’d be proof of that by missing or suspicious entries in the CofC Log. That’s not even being alleged by the D, obviously because there’s no proof it occurred.

The only reason the bullet is a contentious issue to RA’s defense team is because the bullet strongly implies RA’s guilt. JMO

 

[WildHuncher]

The error rate is higher for unfired rounds. The reliability of the test is completely subjective; it is only reliable as the examiner.

Accuracy of comparison decisions by forensic firearms examiners - PMC

This black box study assessed the performance of forensic firearms examiners in the United States. It involved three different types of firearms and 173 volunteers who performed a total of 8640 comparisons of both bullets and cartridge cases. The ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Their conclusion looks a little different from yours, though.

“The results of this study add to the ever increasing body of empirical data that firearms examiners conduct comparisons with a high level of accuracy.”

 

[StarryStarryNight]

We all have differing opinions on what reasonable is. My time needed has only stretched since trial began, as two sharp edged weapons were used I learned from day 1 of trial, one serrated one not was also possibly mentioned, I only read about serrated in one report so not sure if that is what was testified too.
Plus the only evidence that a gun was present during crimes is it is supposedly heard on Libby's video, I am really looking forward to that testimony, if defence motion in limine is successful and the jury is to rely on what they hear on the video not what state tells them is on there then maybe some of the jury don't hear the word gun, and if the defence is able to argue that there is no evidence a gun was used during crimes then the bullet which is the only thing putting him at crime scene becomes less relevant IMO

Respectfully,
You did not learn from Day 1 of the trial that two sharp edged weapons were used. You heard that from the defense’s opening statement, which is not evidence and is not sworn testimony. You heard the defense’s idea on how they think things happened.

 

[photographer4]

How does one test a bullet before one has a weapon to test it against?

If the search warrant was in Oct 2022 before RA was arrested wouldn’t that be when they got the gun to test it against? It’s an actual question not an opinion - ty in advance.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I think it is very important to show all aspects of collection, how it looked when removed from ground, very good close up of it after removal with any markings and manufacturers stamps noted and taken. photos of this removes any doubt as to this is the cartridge we found and removed and placed and sealed in evidence bag on scene.
Not doing so leaves doubts as we can't be expected to solely rely on LE saying take my word for it this is the bullet as most people want to be sure the evidence is exactly what they say it is.

Is the sport of hunting permitted in that area?

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Many of us are invested in justice for Abby and Libby. I believe I am speaking for the "masses". Not one person I've chatted with is willing to convict anyone other than the person that is guilty of killing Libby and Abby.

I apologize if it came across that I was suggesting that people on WS were the “masses” I was referring to other online media threads and comments- where it seems like at times people are ready to just assume guilty in the name of “justice” and closure

I meant no disrespect towards anyone on WS

 

[MassGuy]

I always enjoy going back to the early threads on cases like this, and seeing if people got it right. In this case I looked at what people made of the photo of BG.

There were several posts that put him at “middle aged,” and identified his jacket as being a Carhartt.

Of course Allen was middle aged, and admitted that he was wearing a Carhartt that matched the color of BG.

Many people identified the imprint of a gun, which obviously made logical sense in regards to how one man could control two teen girls.

And as we know, the girls also allegedly mentioned a gun, and that round was found.

 

[gregjrichards]

‘Richard Allen hugged his arms tightly across his chest, kneading them with his fingers as the court in Delphi was shown harrowing images of the double murders of which he stands accused.

Gaunt and pale eyed, Allen rocked slightly and appeared to self-soothe with the repetitive act. It was the only hint that viewing the horrific photographs of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, may have evoked some kind of stress or emotion in him.’

Accused Richard Allen displays shocking behavior in Delphi court

Richard Allen who stands accused of murdering Liberty German, 14, and Abigail William, 13, was attempting to self-soothe after prosecution showed the horrifying photos of their brutalized bodies.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I’m sorry this is a DM Online article I have posted it because I was interested in his body language when the crime scene photos were shown in court yesterday. I wondered if he would have any reaction because he would be faced with images of what prosecutors believe he allegedly did to Abbey and Libby and everyone in the courtroom, including his wife, Mother and Stepfather, and Abbey and Liberty’s loved ones, would be seeing for themselves for the first time what he has been charged with doing to them.

 

[AugustWest]

Their conclusion looks a little different from yours, though.

“The results of this study add to the ever increasing body of empirical data that firearms examiners conduct comparisons with a high level of accuracy.”

I'm not making conclusions; I'm waiting until I hear from the specific toolmark analyst in this trial. I am only pointing out the statistics here because the 1% error rate you note is (1) misleading, because that statistic is for a cartridge, not a unfired round; (2) the study and the numbers associated with it come from a pool of "a total of 173 qualified forensic firearms examiners made 8640 comparisons" and not the entirely of comparisons ever made; and (3) "Each examiner has an individual error probability" and "the majority of errors were made by a limited number of examiners."

Statistics can be misleading.

 

[BUF]

Many people identified the imprint of a gun, which obviously made logical sense in regards to how one man could control two teen girls.

I remember “endless” discussions about this

 

[MassGuy]

Is the sport of hunting permitted in that area?

I would doubt it, and almost no one hunts with that round.