Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

[Cedars]

Just RA's own statement to Dan Dulin in Feb 2017 and to LE in Oct 2022. JMO

But that has not been introduced into the trial.

Everybody is talking about tons of stuff that hasn't yet been introduced at the trial.

 

[MassGuy]

A bit more added to that blog:

He said in the February deposition that he couldn’t determine if the killer was left or right handed and that a serrated knife may have been used.

Kohr then said after his deposition that a box cutter may have been used instead of a serrated knife, but did not inform the defense. News 8’s Kyla Russell said Rozzi showed upset in the courtroom after Kohr admitted his uncertainty about the weapon used and did not file a new report.

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[katydid23]

I wish we would get more reporting from the medical examiner’s testimony

Like the date and time it was done so we can count back 41 hours.

 

[ClearAhead]

Kohr estimated that the girls died approximately 41 hours before the autopsy

The girls died approximately 41 hours before the autopsy? Who is good at math?

I’m betting at the very beginning of this interview Kohr was asked to state the time he performed the autopsies but no reporter included it in their notes.

 

[EllaMinnowP]

TBH, I had the same thoughts when I read his letter to the judge asking for a pro bono lawyer, in 2022. He was not on Haldol then (that we know of), but he was writing over the prints of the letterhead, writing over the margins, and using language I found overly-dramatic. I truly think that this type of chaotic writing is his propensity, and it didn't get any better when he was writing down the worst thing he has ever done - imagine the emotional strain?

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen pens jailhouse letter saying wife is in hiding

This week, a judge agreed to push back trial of man behind a catfishing account tied to the murders because he is ‘negotiating’

www.independent.co.uk

All MOO

I agree that the language is dramatic, and that he gets in the margin to the edge of the paper in the original letter to the judge, which appears to be on a sheet of notebook paper. I don’t see a letterhead that he wrote over in that one.

 

[joe jones]

“He said that though the rape kit showed no “overt injury patterns,” it does not mean that sexual contact didn’t occur.”

Misreported (?) in the Franks motion as “…were not sexually molested.” Innocent mistake? Did the doctor change his story as part of a conspiracy to frame an obscure pharmacy worker?

I think one could read a sexual motive into crime due to Libby being naked and at one point Abby was partially or fully undressed, we will never know if Abby was fully naked at some point,
But lack of evidence that either were sexually abused means state can't presume to know what the intent of the perpetrator was, and whether it was sexually motivated so opining as he did in opening that RA took the girls to sexually assault them needs evidence,
The idea that he was disturbed is opinion not fact,

 

[PrairieWind]

Well the proof is in the transcript, which the D obviously couldn’t be bothered to read. If they’re too lazy to review transcripts, they’re certainly not going to waste time listening to hours and hours of raw interviews had it been available. Their mission was simply to misinform. The D ought to be deeply ashamed for all the incorrect facts contained in the FM which they attempted to feed to the public, whether the jury hears it or not.

JMO

But the witness says the police incorrectly transcribed what she said (which in that case is highly unlikely). So it throws a huge doubt: is the witness not telling the truth, or can the police transcript not be trusted. The defense strategy in part is that the police bungled this and focused on the wrong party. And this witness just helped them with that point.

 

[Cedars]

SC also admitted that she was scared, there was a killer of 2 young girls still on the loose. She would have been in her late 20's at the time.

I can understand why she would be a reluctant witness, her being named out there and now having to be on the stand testifying has most surely caused tremendous stress and grief in her life. SC is a victim of RA, as well as all the other witnesses.

MOO
MOO

That is an interesting point, it was made a lot by people indirectly affected by the Vallow/Daybell trials. A whole community has been psychologically traumatized by this crime. To live in a tiny, safe town and then have your whole world shattered by this. These are sensitive, ordinary people, not hardened investigators who deal with murders daily.

JMO

 

[Kudzuu]

I think this testimony is all running together. Keep in mind Sarah Carbaugh saw this man at 3:57 p.m. on CR 300 N.
The family would have already began gathering across from the Mears' farm entrance to look for the girls.

So she probably saw BG on one side and the other ppl on the other side of the road. Is that correct?

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849139907891257704

 

[SouthEnd]

I’m betting at the very beginning of this interview Kohr was asked to state the time he performed the autopsies but no reporter included it in their notes.

That's the best I can find:

'
February 15, 2017

2:33 p.m. Authorities positively identify the two bodies found Tuesday as Abigail Williams and Liberty German during a press conference held in Delphi. Autopsies were performed earlier that day in Terre Haute, according to authorities.
'

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

If the autopsies were performed at 8 or 9am, which would make sense as they would have been the most urgent autopsies in Dr. Kohr's agenda, that would make 41hrs earlier - lets say 3pm, Feb 13th.

He would have needed to be doing the autopsies post the 2:33pm LE statement, to fit the 4am timeline.

All MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

If she is local, she HAD to have heard about those poor girls and where they were murdered. Waiting 3 weeks to report the bloody and muddy is very troubling.

I don't think so based on the fact that she was young, scared with the killer still being on the loose, and not wanting to be involved in something so horrible. She admitted that and said when she saw LE seeking tips she saw that as her 'sign' to come forward. I cannot judge her for that.

Thank goodness she did or we might not be where we are today.

MOO

 

[WildHuncher]

I think one could read a sexual motive into crime due to Libby being naked and at one point Abby was partially or fully undressed, we will never know if Abby was fully naked at some point,
But lack of evidence that either were sexually abused means state can't presume to know what the intent of the perpetrator was, and whether it was sexually motivated so opining as he did in opening that RA took the girls to sexually assault them needs evidence,
The idea that he was disturbed is opinion not fact,

I think we’re already there on motive, as your first paragraph seems to acknowledge. Purportedly the coming confession evidence will further support this. But we shall see.

 

[agreen36]

The "bloody" man testimony is a mess.

So either this LE is so bad they didn't write down that a witness saw a BLOODY MAN in the same day and place two girls were murdered and then LOST the taped interview where she confirmed it or she did not say he was bloody and is misremembering.

It's almost certainly the latter IMO.

Eyewitness testimony is easily compromised and experts have generally agreed the first recollection immediately after the incident is the most reliable. The more time that goes by, the less reliable the memory is. Most likely this witness saw a muddy man, reported as much to LE, but as days, weeks, months, years go by and she learns details of the crime from the news she starts to think that maybe she actually saw blood as well and eventually has a false memory that was bloody. This is a common issue and has been the cause of many overturned guilty verdicts.

Regardless, it doesn't sound like we can believe the man she saw was bloody. I think she misremembered but even if she didn't then LE ruined that piece of evidence by being terrible at their jobs.

It doesn't matter much overall, it was hardly a smoking gun, but I'm concerned that so many people here seem to think her saying he was bloody on the stand 7 years somehow means he was in fact, bloody. Always, always be skeptical of eyewitness testimony especially if it's changed over time!

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849139913406435798

 

[girlhasnoname]

But that has not been introduced into the trial.

Everybody is talking about tons of stuff that hasn't yet been introduced at the trial.

It's coming, we just have to be patient. moo

 

[MassGuy]

The "bloody" man testimony is a mess.

So either this LE is so bad they didn't write down that a witness saw a BLOODY MAN in the same day and place two girls were murdered and then LOST the taped interview where she confirmed it or she did not say he was bloody and is misremembering.

It's almost certainly the latter IMO.

Eyewitness testimony is easily compromised and experts have generally agreed the first recollection immediately after the incident is the most reliable. The more time that goes by, the less reliable the memory is. Most likely this witness saw a muddy man, reported as much to LE, but as days, weeks, months, years go by and she learns details of the crime from the news she starts to think that maybe she actually saw blood as well and eventually has a false memory that was bloody. This is a common issue and has been the cause of many overturned guilty verdicts.

Regardless, it doesn't sound like we can believe the man she saw was bloody. I think she misremembered but even if she didn't then LE ruined that piece of evidence by being terrible at their jobs.

It doesn't matter much overall, it was hardly a smoking gun, but I'm concerned that so many people here seem to think her saying he was bloody on the stand 7 years somehow means he was in fact, bloody. Always, always be skeptical of eyewitness testimony especially if it's changed over time!

I totally believe that she said “muddy” because that’s what she saw. Over time her opinion was influenced, perhaps by hearing information in the news.

To me it doesn’t matter a great deal. Even if she did see mud on a man consistent with BG, it would stand out.

 

[girlhasnoname]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849139913406435798

Why wouldn't RA, a father himself, look down or away at those disturbing and graphic pictures? That really bothers me a lot and I'm sure it's not lost on the jury either.

JMO

 

[shonyakay]

has anybody read any reports or listened to video where it was mentioned the word gun was on the video Libby took

Yes. The Murder Sheet.

 

[photographer4]

One thing mentioned was that the girls were filming him as he followed them----so I doubt the girls were just happily strolling along and chatting. It sounded more like they were worried about which way they should go to try and get away.IMO

I'm specifically interested in a media link that supports the idea that they were at all alarmed by his presence as I've not seen one as of yet that suggests this. Any help in this regard would be most appreciated. Not interested in social media content (eg: Youtube / podcasts) as I am unlikely to bother with them. Ty in advance!