Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

[Melted]

Asking people to believe the phone powered itself off at 10:30 pm and then powered itself back on at 4:30 am with no human interference is similar to asking people to toss logic out of the window and believe in a fairy tale.


MOO

 

[Boxer]

Well lookie there.

Indeed:
In the law of evidence, consciousness of guilt is a type of circumstantial evidencethat judges, prosecutors, and juries may consider when determining whether a defendant is guilty of a criminal offense. It is often admissible evidence,<a href="Consciousness of guilt - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a> and judges are required to instruct juries on this form of evidence.<a href="Consciousness of guilt - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a>Deceptive statements or evasive actions made by a defendant after the commission of a crime or other wrongdoing are seen as evidence of a guilty conscience. These are not the typical behaviors of an innocent person, and a "defendant's actions are compared unfavorably to what a normal, innocent person would have done, with the implication that the discrepancy indicates guilt".
<ahref="Consciousness of guilt - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a>.

 

[MassGuy]

While questions remained about the phone’s period of inactivity, locator pings never placed the phone outside the Monon High Bridge area and the site near Deer Creek where the girls’ bodies — and the phone — were found. This lack of movement casts doubt on the defense team’s floated theory of a possible abduction and off-site killing.

Andrew Baldwin, one of Allen’s defense attorneys, floated the theory early on in the trial. Baldwin theorized a killer could have forced the girls into a vehicle and driven them to another site to murder them before returning and dumping the bodies at the creek bend.

The girls were first noted as missing around 3:30 p.m. on Feb. 13. Their bodies weren’t found until shortly after noon on Feb. 14.

Crime scene investigators noted several pools of blood at the site where the girls’ bodies were found and called the bloody scene “saturated.”

https://cbs4indy.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-phone-pings-cast-doubt-on-defenses-alternate-site-killing-theory/

 

[iamshadow21]

Thanks for looking for a link. If infact the LE released the cell back to family in time for the funeral (or all!) I would wonder why the D didn’t file for a mistrial yet!! Yikes!!

Um, why?

Cellebrite can dump a phone in an hour.

 

[photographer4]

Asking people to believe the phone powered itself off at 10:30 pm and then powered itself back on at 4:30 am with no human interference is similar to asking people to toss logic out of the window and believe in a fairy tale.


MOO

This one is a head scratcher!! Mooo

 

[Melted]

Thanks for looking for a link. If infact the LE released the cell back to family in time for the funeral (or all!) I would wonder why the D didn’t file for a mistrial yet!! Yikes!!

I think it’s obvious that law enforcement didn’t release that cell phone since they were doing tests on it in October of 2017 and later, so the next 2 obvious questions is 1) who took that photograph. 2) what devices were also connected to Libby’s iCloud?

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Asking people to believe the phone powered itself off at 10:30 pm and then powered itself back on at 4:30 am with no human interference is similar to asking people to toss logic out of the window and believe in a fairy tale.


MOO

Regardless of how it happened (water intrusion, low power, poor signal), the evidence shows that phone never left the area during that time. The crime scene shows a bloody mess, that could only occur if that's where the victims were killed. One would have to believe the victims were removed from the scene, somehow returned to a location where an active search was taking place, and then murdered there.

That's not so much a fairy tale, as it is pure insanity.

 

[SouthEnd]

Asking people to believe the phone powered itself off at 10:30 pm and then powered itself back on at 4:30 am with no human interference is similar to asking people to toss logic out of the window and believe in a fairy tale.


MOO

I mean, I agree, in the same way that if you show a tv to a person from the middle ages, they will think it is witchcraft. Understanding what losing connection to the tower means vs a manual power off, makes it less of a fairy tale, IMO

I truly hope they get to ask the experts the questions required for the jury to understand the difference.

MOO

 

[Melted]

Um, why?

Cellebrite can dump a phone in an hour.

Law enforcement isn’t going to do a cellebrite dump on a phone found underneath two murdered little girls and then give it back to the family, they’d have to Swab it for dna first, chain of custody, etc. plus we know they still have control of that phone to this day.

 

[photographer4]

While questions remained about the phone’s period of inactivity, locator pings never placed the phone outside the Monon High Bridge area and the site near Deer Creek where the girls’ bodies — and the phone — were found. This lack of movement casts doubt on the defense team’s floated theory of a possible abduction and off-site killing.

Andrew Baldwin, one of Allen’s defense attorneys, floated the theory early on in the trial. Baldwin theorized a killer could have forced the girls into a vehicle and driven them to another site to murder them before returning and dumping the bodies at the creek bend.

The girls were first noted as missing around 3:30 p.m. on Feb. 13. Their bodies weren’t found until shortly after noon on Feb. 14.

Crime scene investigators noted several pools of blood at the site where the girls’ bodies were found and called the bloody scene “saturated.”

https://cbs4indy.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-phone-pings-cast-doubt-on-defenses-alternate-site-killing-theory/

How many towers are there in Delphi? How would we know the normal tower it pinged to in the trail area? Is this knowable? Eg: where did otber pbknes on the same network ping to and is it dependent on where one is in the area? My own phone will ping a local tower in my backyard but a far away tower that makes the carrier think I’m calling from out of area (long distance) if am in the front yard. The front yard tower is in the next town over. So anyone investigating my cell details would be likely confused if I said I never left home and it pinged off the next town over. Do we expect to learn more about this? It’s moo but also a real question.

 

[Melted]

I mean, I agree, in the same way that if you show a tv to a person from the middle ages, they will think it is witchcraft. Understanding what losing connection to the tower means vs a manual power off, makes it less of a fairy tale, IMO

I truly hope they get to ask the experts the questions required for the jury to understand the difference.

MOO

That isn’t what was testified to, they didn’t testify that the phone “lost connection to the tower at 10:30 pm and then connected to the tower at 4:30 am”

They testified that the phone powered off at 10:30 pm and powered on at 4:30 am

 

[Pennysmom1]

I said moo but if anyone has had blood drawn, have they used that little medical tape on you? How much sticky residue was left?

Medical tape is designed to leave behind the least amount of residue and irritation.

As to the marks on the skin, counter instructions on duct tape explains it could cause rash or irritation on skin.

Great thought! I wonder if CVS sells this medical tape

 

[JAY CLUCK]

Regardless of how it happened (water intrusion, low power, poor signal), the evidence shows that phone never left the area during that time. The crime scene shows a bloody mess, that could only occur if that's where the victims were killed. One would have to believe the victims were removed from the scene, somehow returned to a location where an active search was taking place, and then murdered there.

That's a fairy tale.

With all respect, you’re assuming he’s implying they were taken. It is also implying he’s even hinting at a specific action or event. Defense just cares about doubt.

It has been frustrating there seems to be no middle ground between off site odinists and RA killing and walking away. And disregard for jury doubts. “RA did it what’s the hold up”

Second bit not at all directed specifically at you.

 

[rez125]

Um, why?

Cellebrite can dump a phone in an hour.

I have never heard of a victim's phone being handed back to a family days after an unsolved murder.

 

[photographer4]

Um, why?

Cellebrite can dump a phone in an hour.

I have no idea how long it should take to dump a phone etc but I would wonder about dna and chain of custody etc. I’m really curious about if the police did release it to the fam and then have to get it back for more tests or what? Still not quite opinion so much as actual question.

 

[SouthEnd]

That isn’t what was testified to, they didn’t testify that the phone “lost connection to the tower at 10:30 pm and then connected to the tower at 4:30 am”

They testified that the phone powered off at 10:30 pm and powered on at 4:30 am

Oh that's not what I read?

'You need to call me now': Delphi murder trial testimony reveals text from Libby's grandmother

The trial of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders resumed Wednesday with testimony from an eyewitness, a forensic pathologist and a police technician.

eu.indystar.com

-> Officials initially believed that the last signal the phone received was about 10 p.m. on Feb. 13, Cecil said. But a second analysis conducted earlier this year using more advanced programs found that the last signal was actually received at 4:33 a.m. on Feb. 14, Cecil testified.

I am looking forward to seeing the wording in the transcripts.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849232676726714781

 

[Kudzuu]

Do you think this is when they went in the water and clothes were taken off? Did Libby put the phone in her jeans pocket?

Maybe the phone got wet and turned off….then eventually turned back on at 4:33 am? Did the phone fall out of Libby’s jeans that Abby had on when he came after her to cut her throat and that’s how the phone was found underneath her?

Thoughts anyone?

You have some good points.
What is bothering me is at approximately 2:15 they went down the hill. Next the killer made his move to ”have his way” but was interrupted. Were they in the process of undressing? Then they are taken across the creek at a place you can wade across. Libby loses a shoe and her shirt. The killer takes them to a more secluded place. At 2:32 (I think) the phone stops moving.

Is it then he "has his way"? The phone was found under Abby. Did he kill her then turn to Libby? I don't know.

BUT the witness sees a bloody muddy man dressed like BG at 3:57 almost at the CPS building.

What is puzzling me is there is almost an hour and a half unaccounted for.

Was Libby killed much later? That might explain the phone not moving. Or is it more diabolical?

An hour take out the walk from the crime scene to his car is a very long time at the crime scene where this predator felt safe to stay.

Makes my skin crawl.

 

[SouthEnd]

With all respect, you’re assuming he’s implying they were taken. It is also implying he’s even hinting at a specific action or event. Defense just cares about doubt.

It has been frustrating there seems to be no middle ground between off site odinists and RA killing and walking away. And disregard for jury doubts. “RA did it what’s the hold up”

Second bit not at all directed specifically at you.

Honestly, this is not even about RA, just about the facts of these two terrible murders. I am trying to understand how the phone's last signals help get to the truth - IMO everything we have seen thus far seems to point that WHOEVER committed the murders, it was all over by 4pm.

Any doubts re - was the phone on/off, don't make sense to me if no manual turn off/turn on was recorded - and there was no testimony pointing to that.

All MOO

 

[Melted]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849232676726714781

This is different testimony than what I have read. Will wait until media pool notes to speak on this further.