Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

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So far I have not seen any evidence that proves or disproves it’s RA.

I really like the jury and the very good questions they are asking.
I haven’t noticed the shift you’re talking about (although I’ve missed chunks of the last two threads), but I am with you on all of your last two points.

I believe that RA is guilty, very much so, but coming into the trial I did not have enough that if I was on the jury I’d be BARD. I was maybe 70% of the way there.

So far, to me the prison letter is the only new thing that’s moved the needle in either direction, and that only moved it a little.
 
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Not one witness that has testified has placed Richard Allen on the trails let alone someone even matching his physical description.

Imo the states case is looking terrible.
Richard Allen placed Richard Allen on the trails, and he spoke to that fact to witnesses who testified. He contacted the police and told them he was there. That counts for a lot.

MOO
 
I believe the P is being methodical.

They want to prove that BG = the perpetrator first.

And only after they have established that will they move to BG = RA.

That's why I believe they haven't been talking about RA in the last few days. All MOO.
agreed!

imo their narrative strategy seems to be laying out their case as the investigation unfolded in real time.
 
imo they don’t necessarily need to be dead-on, because RA places himself there. literally. i see why the witnesses have given pause thus far but they are solidifying a timeline (for me, anyway)
Can you point me to where RA places himself there at the time of the crime?

RA has stated he was gone by 2:15 officially.

Unofficially he told Dullin he was there between 1:30 and 3:30

JMO
 
At one point, a graphic closeup picture of one of the victims appeared without warning, causing several people to gasp.

Libby was found nude and covered in blood while Abby was found wearing some of Libby’s clothing, according to testimony from last week.

Following the questioning on Tuesday, one juror asked whether the undergrowth on the ground where Abby was lying appeared to have been disturbed, which would suggest she was dressed there, the Indy Star reported.

Ryan Olehy, an Indiana State Police crime scene investigator, said he does not recall the area being disturbed.

As testimony continued, Allen sat at the defense table and rocked subtly back and forth during testimony. He was not cuffed or shackled.



I'm really impressed with the juror's thoughtful questions. I can see they are really paying attention.

It was interesting to hear that Allen was rocking back and forth during testimony about the crime scene. I think they call that 'self-soothing ' behaviour. IMO
Pretty sure everyone in that courtroom was needing some soothing after viewing the horrific photos.
 
On the subject of eye witnesses

I'd remind the fellow Pistorius veterans here, that 8 witnesses, including couples, can be direct witnesses to the same murder and disagree about all of it.

It's the broad sweeps that matter.

The 3 juveniles see a man consistent with Bridge guy rather obviously, and then that man is in the video 30 mins later. Then a man who seems to have slaughtered a pig is seen on the road just after a bloody murder happened - also consistent with the guy in the video.

The fact that RA says he saw the 3 juveniles makes it highly probable he is the killer. It doesn't matter whether the jacket was brown, blue or black according to the witnesses.

The problem for RA remains that he did not see any of these other people - which is not possible if he was on the Bridge like he said. BB sweeps the trail outbound AND inbound - she meets the girls on her return leg - so how can she have missed RA?

His only hope is if he was not there at all after 1.30pm

MOO
 
How far is this road on the south end from the bridge? 100 yards?
The private driveway runs under the south end of the bridge that the girls were originally abducted from.

The driveway is well down below a very steep hill from te end of the bridge. For perspective, I just located this video where a gentleman walks accross the bridge, then goes down the hill then ventures under the bridge.

Walking back, he walks up that private road, looks up to the end of the bridge trail, then walks back up the hill.

12m, 25s:
 
Can you point me to where RA places himself there at the time of the crime?

RA has stated he was gone by 2:15 officially.

Unofficially he told Dullin he was there between 1:30 and 3:30

JMO
are you suggesting that we disregard RA admitting to being there in similar clothes via the that interview because it was “off the record”? i have no doubt that we’ll hear more about RA’s shifting alibi (because it did shift) in the days to come.

just my opinion here — this idea of taking RA’s dozens of confessions (mercy, forgiveness, all the themes of redemption) and minimizing them is exactly what the defense adopted as a strategy. the man confessed his guilt so many times in a case with ever-expanding circumstantial evidence.

just my opinions here. time will tell.
 
Probably a stupid question but going to ask anyway- are all of the eye witnesses teens and adults female?

Are we to assume that no other male was on/around the trails/bridge for those few hours? Just bridge guy?

and since RA said he was on the bridge that day around that time then RA=BG

Just seems odd if there were multiple females and just one guy- but maybe I’m missing something obvious

Moo
 
Sharing this prior post of mine for those who may have missed it.

February 13, 2017

At 12:43 p.m. three teen girls and a little girl take a picture on the Monon High Bridge.

At 1:26 p.m. Those same girls take a picture on a bench after having walked the entirety of the approximately one mile trail. They then head westbound toward Freedom Bridge.

At 1:27 p.m. A car that resembles Richard Allen's 2016 Black Ford Focus is seen traveling westbound on CR 300 N. Heading in the direction of the former CPS building.

In his first statement, Richard Allen, says he parked at the old farm bureau building. He says he headed toward Freedom Bridge. He said he was on the trails that day from 1:30 to 3:30 p.m.

In the vicinity of the Freedom Bridge the three teen girls see a man. They describe him as "kind of creepy", "not very tall", had his hands in his pockets, wearing blue or black jeans and a blue or black jacket. He had gray hair maybe a little brown.
He matched the man in the still photo from LG's cellphone video.

Richard Allen said at the Freedom Bridge he saw three females. One was taller and had brown or black hair. He then says he walked to the High Bridge.

Just before 1:46 p.m.
Betsy Blair observed four girls (The three teen girls and the little girl) walking on the bridge over State Road 25 as she was driving underneath.

At 1:46 p.m.
Betsy Blair's car is seen traveling eastbound.
She parks her car across from the Mears farm and starts walking toward the High Bridge.

At 1:49 p.m. Kelsi drops Libby and Abby off across from the Mears' farm.

When Betsy Blair makes it to the High Bridge she
sees a man wearing blue jeans and a blue jeans jacket standing on platform One approximately 50 feet away. He matched the man from the still photo from Libby's cellphone video.

Richard Allen said in his 2022 statement that at the High Bridge he walked out onto platform One. He described himself as wearing blue jeans and a blue or black jacket.

Betsy turns around to finish her walk and halfway between the high bridge and the Mears' farm parking area she sees two girls who she believes to be Libby and Abby. They were headed to the High Bridge.

At 2:05 p.m.
Libby takes a picture of the bridge in between the second and third platforms.

At 2:07 p.m.
Libby gets on the third platform and turns around to take a picture of Abby walking across High Bridge.

Around 2:10 p.m.
A man on his way to Delphi on State Road 25 observes a purple PT cruiser or a small suv type vehicle parked on the South side of the old CPS building. It was backed in as though to conceal it's license plate.

At 2:13 p.m.
While at the end of the High Bridge or very close to it Libby, who is turned toward the beginning of the bridge, begins recording video of a man on her cell phone. The man is coming from the direction of the beginning of the bridge. He is between the fifth and six platforms at the end of the bridge walking behind Abby.

At 2:14 p.m.
Betsy Blair's car is seen leaving westbound from the trails. As she passes by the old CPS building she sees a car parked in an odd manner. It is in the same general spot and backed in like the man observed around 2:10 p.m.

Around 2:28 p.m.
A man sees a small dark colored car parked at the old CPS building. He describes it as possibly a smart car.

At 2:32 p.m.
Libby's phone ceases movement, according to the Apple Health Data on her cellphone.

At 3:57 p.m.
Sarah Carbaugh is driving eastbound down CR 300 N when she sees a man walking westbound away from the Monon High bridge. He matches the man in the still photo from LG's cellphone video. He appears muddy, bloody, and like he's been in a fight.

There were other individuals on the trails or CR 300 N from 2:30 p.m. to 4:11 p.m. and none of these people saw a man resembling Richard Allen on the trails.
 
Does anyone have a map to help Ranch out?

TY
@RANCH

Case Map by skibaboo from Post # 4 of the first media thread:


 
Can you point me to where RA places himself there at the time of the crime?

RA has stated he was gone by 2:15 officially.

Unofficially he told Dullin he was there between 1:30 and 3:30

JMO
Officially, unofficially? Where does that come from? Politics?

Just because someone changes his story does not mean he can eliminate from the evidence his previous words or actions.

JMO
 
Officially, unofficially? Where does that come from? Politics?

Just because someone changes his story does not mean he can eliminate from the evidence his previous words or actions.

JMO
Totally agreed. I don't know why the "unofficially" is noted, how is an interview with a conservation officer where that officer takes notes-- how is that "unofficial"? The interview occurred with DD who was clearly acting in a professional capacity. They weren't out shooting pool together.

This is not meant to be in any way disrespectful to those that believe RA is not guilty, however, I found the switching of his original timeline to be lethal to his defense. It is almost transparent in its disingenuousness, MOO. How does someone remember particulars of any event years later with more clarity while contradicting his own words given in a timeframe much closer to the event? It makes no sense. (But it does help RA at least try to dodge around the facts now looming ahead of him. That unfortunately makes too much sense.) Moreover, these victims were not abducted and then their bodies brought back to the scene. The CS was a horrifying bloodbath. This D theory jmo also makes no sense.

I believe RA did this, yes. If someone shows me a plausible theory with solid facts and logic behind it, I'd be open to listen. After that change on the timeline (and many other things), I find it much more difficult to listen.
 
There’s also a house down the road. What’s your point? Forest for the trees. He’s saying the voice came from close and down not bg.
What does the house down the road have anything to do with the creek having two sides, two banks DTH where the girl's were taken? Are you saying they weren't taken DTH on that side of the bridge?
 
Can you point me to where RA places himself there at the time of the crime?

RA has stated he was gone by 2:15 officially.

Unofficially he told Dullin he was there between 1:30 and 3:30

JMO
Respectfully, I think you have that backwards.Officially the day after the murders and before the BG picture came out, he told DD, an officer of the law, he was there from 1:30 to 3:30. Years later he changed the time via his lawyers...that's unofficial, unless RA takes the stand.

But you know this is probably all moot anyway because he'll tell the How of it all in his own words anyway, when the confessions are played for the jury.
AJMO
 
Wednesday, October 23rd:
*Trial continues (Day 5) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].

Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-3 (10/18-21/24) reference post #594 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-201.726603/page-30

10/17/24 Update: Motions to be decided:
*State’s Motion in Limine- Tobin – Under advisement.
*Defense’s Response To State’s Motion in Limine-Tobin – Under advisement.
*Motion for Order on Designated Defense Representatives - ??

10/22/24 Tuesday, Trial Day 4: State witnesses:. Indiana State Police Trooper Brian Oleha [documented evidence at crime scene] back on direct. Indiana State Police Lt. Brian Bunner. [State forensic examiner; worked with ISP’s digital forensic unit]. Jeremy Chapman, an audio-visual forensic expert. Audio & video of two girls & a guy walking on a bridge was played for the jurors. Railly Voorheis [on trail that day]. Breann Welber [on trail that day]. Betsey Blair [on trail that day]. Steve Mullin, an investigator for the Carroll County Prosecutor’s Office.
For more info see post #677 (Day 4 blog) here;
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-201.726603/page-34
Trial continues on Wednesday, 10/23/24 @ 9am.
 
Sharing this prior post of mine for those who may have missed it.

February 13, 2017

At 12:43 p.m. three teen girls and a little girl take a picture on the Monon High Bridge.

At 1:26 p.m. Those same girls take a picture on a bench after having walked the entirety of the approximately one mile trail. They then head westbound toward Freedom Bridge.

At 1:27 p.m. A car that resembles Richard Allen's 2016 Black Ford Focus is seen traveling westbound on CR 300 N. Heading in the direction of the former CPS building.

In his first statement, Richard Allen, says he parked at the old farm bureau building. He says he headed toward Freedom Bridge. He said he was on the trails that day from 1:30 to 3:30 p.m.

In the vicinity of the Freedom Bridge the three teen girls see a man. They describe him as "kind of creepy", "not very tall", had his hands in his pockets, wearing blue or black jeans and a blue or black jacket. He had gray hair maybe a little brown.
He matched the man in the still photo from LG's cellphone video.

Richard Allen said at the Freedom Bridge he saw three females. One was taller and had brown or black hair. He then says he walked to the High Bridge.

Just before 1:46 p.m.
Betsy Blair observed four girls (The three teen girls and the little girl) walking on the bridge over State Road 25 as she was driving underneath.

At 1:46 p.m.
Betsy Blair's car is seen traveling eastbound.
She parks her car across from the Mears farm and starts walking toward the High Bridge.

At 1:49 p.m. Kelsi drops Libby and Abby off across from the Mears' farm.

When Betsy Blair makes it to the High Bridge she
sees a man wearing blue jeans and a blue jeans jacket standing on platform One approximately 50 feet away. He matched the man from the still photo from Libby's cellphone video.

Richard Allen said in his 2022 statement that at the High Bridge he walked out onto platform One. He described himself as wearing blue jeans and a blue or black jacket.

Betsy turns around to finish her walk and halfway between the high bridge and the Mears' farm parking area she sees two girls who she believes to be Libby and Abby. They were headed to the High Bridge.

At 2:05 p.m.
Libby takes a picture of the bridge in between the second and third platforms.

At 2:07 p.m.
Libby gets on the third platform and turns around to take a picture of Abby walking across High Bridge.

Around 2:10 p.m.
A man on his way to Delphi on State Road 25 observes a purple PT cruiser or a small suv type vehicle parked on the South side of the old CPS building. It was backed in as though to conceal it's license plate.

At 2:13 p.m.
While at the end of the High Bridge or very close to it Libby, who is turned toward the beginning of the bridge, begins recording video of a man on her cell phone. The man is coming from the direction of the beginning of the bridge. He is between the fifth and six platforms at the end of the bridge walking behind Abby.

At 2:14 p.m.
Betsy Blair's car is seen leaving westbound from the trails. As she passes by the old CPS building she sees a car parked in an odd manner. It is in the same general spot and backed in like the man observed around 2:10 p.m.

Around 2:28 p.m.
A man sees a small dark colored car parked at the old CPS building. He describes it as possibly a smart car.

At 2:32 p.m.
Libby's phone ceases movement, according to the Apple Health Data on her cellphone.

At 3:57 p.m.
Sarah Carbaugh is driving eastbound down CR 300 N when she sees a man walking westbound away from the Monon High bridge. He matches the man in the still photo from LG's cellphone video. He appears muddy, bloody, and like he's been in a fight.

There were other individuals on the trails or CR 300 N from 2:30 p.m. to 4:11 p.m. and none of these people saw a man resembling Richard Allen on the trails.
Thank You this was great!!!!! should be pinned somewhere for easy access when confusion hits again.
 
Sharing this prior post of mine for those who may have missed it.

February 13, 2017

At 12:43 p.m. three teen girls and a little girl take a picture on the Monon High Bridge.

At 1:26 p.m. Those same girls take a picture on a bench after having walked the entirety of the approximately one mile trail. They then head westbound toward Freedom Bridge.

At 1:27 p.m. A car that resembles Richard Allen's 2016 Black Ford Focus is seen traveling westbound on CR 300 N. Heading in the direction of the former CPS building.

In his first statement, Richard Allen, says he parked at the old farm bureau building. He says he headed toward Freedom Bridge. He said he was on the trails that day from 1:30 to 3:30 p.m.

In the vicinity of the Freedom Bridge the three teen girls see a man. They describe him as "kind of creepy", "not very tall", had his hands in his pockets, wearing blue or black jeans and a blue or black jacket. He had gray hair maybe a little brown.
He matched the man in the still photo from LG's cellphone video.

Richard Allen said at the Freedom Bridge he saw three females. One was taller and had brown or black hair. He then says he walked to the High Bridge.

Just before 1:46 p.m.
Betsy Blair observed four girls (The three teen girls and the little girl) walking on the bridge over State Road 25 as she was driving underneath.

At 1:46 p.m.
Betsy Blair's car is seen traveling eastbound.
She parks her car across from the Mears farm and starts walking toward the High Bridge.

At 1:49 p.m. Kelsi drops Libby and Abby off across from the Mears' farm.

When Betsy Blair makes it to the High Bridge she
sees a man wearing blue jeans and a blue jeans jacket standing on platform One approximately 50 feet away. He matched the man from the still photo from Libby's cellphone video.

Richard Allen said in his 2022 statement that at the High Bridge he walked out onto platform One. He described himself as wearing blue jeans and a blue or black jacket.

Betsy turns around to finish her walk and halfway between the high bridge and the Mears' farm parking area she sees two girls who she believes to be Libby and Abby. They were headed to the High Bridge.

At 2:05 p.m.
Libby takes a picture of the bridge in between the second and third platforms.

At 2:07 p.m.
Libby gets on the third platform and turns around to take a picture of Abby walking across High Bridge.

Around 2:10 p.m.
A man on his way to Delphi on State Road 25 observes a purple PT cruiser or a small suv type vehicle parked on the South side of the old CPS building. It was backed in as though to conceal it's license plate.

At 2:13 p.m.
While at the end of the High Bridge or very close to it Libby, who is turned toward the beginning of the bridge, begins recording video of a man on her cell phone. The man is coming from the direction of the beginning of the bridge. He is between the fifth and six platforms at the end of the bridge walking behind Abby.

At 2:14 p.m.
Betsy Blair's car is seen leaving westbound from the trails. As she passes by the old CPS building she sees a car parked in an odd manner. It is in the same general spot and backed in like the man observed around 2:10 p.m.

Around 2:28 p.m.
A man sees a small dark colored car parked at the old CPS building. He describes it as possibly a smart car.

At 2:32 p.m.
Libby's phone ceases movement, according to the Apple Health Data on her cellphone.

At 3:57 p.m.
Sarah Carbaugh is driving eastbound down CR 300 N when she sees a man walking westbound away from the Monon High bridge. He matches the man in the still photo from LG's cellphone video. He appears muddy, bloody, and like he's been in a fight.

There were other individuals on the trails or CR 300 N from 2:30 p.m. to 4:11 p.m. and none of these people saw a man resembling Richard Allen on the trails.

This is excellent and should be pinned. Very thorough and easy to track

It also shows just how eye witness testimony can also be unreliable. Look at all the different descriptions of the car. Because they saw it in a split second.

This timeline also seems to confirm there were no other males on the bridge/trail at that time? Other than Bridge Guy and Richard Allen confirmed he hadn't seen another male on the bridge?
 
imo they don’t necessarily need to be dead-on, because RA places himself there. literally. i see why the witnesses have given pause thus far but they are solidifying a timeline (for me, anyway)

I agree.

The witnesses all say they saw Bridge Guy.

So to me the only question left in the whole case is whether RA is the Bridge Guy the 3 juveniles saw. To my mind it is beyond doubt that they saw the killer, who is then the man that BB and SC saw, and the girls caught on video.

What things prove this? For me RA saying he saw 3 girls establishes it almost beyond doubt in the first place. Who else could he have seen?

For him to be innocent, there have to be two bridge guys, and 3 mystery girls no one ever located.

MOO
 
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