Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

[otto]

Maybe. But he has a legal right to present an alt explanation per the motion itself which I read earlier. I'll say MOO here since not a lawyer.

Disagree. Evidence has to relate to the crime. Sticks in a forest on or near a body do not directly relate to ritual. Is there a ritual that involves kidnapping two girls, stripping them, possibly forcing one to wear the other's clothes, slitting their necks one or more times, nearly decapitating one of the victims, and tossing a couple of sticks on their bodies?

Some ritual involves sticks, not all sticks involve ritual. How does this crime scene illustration represent ritual - keeping in mind that this is a forest covered with sticks, branches, leaves and blood. Numbers represent possible movements of Libby as she was murdered.

Red = Abby
Yellow = Libby

 

[Sunny Day]

I wonder if RA was left handed or right handed? The autopsy says Abby's throat wound appeared to be from right to left, which would seem to indicate it was inflicted by a left handed person (unless it was inflicted from behind).

'You need to call me now': Delphi murder trial testimony reveals text from Libby's grandmother

The trial of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders resumed Wednesday with testimony from an eyewitness, a forensic pathologist and a police technician.

www.indystar.com

Just my opinion.

 

[MassGuy]

I wonder if RA was left handed or right handed? The autopsy says Abby's throat wound appeared to be from right to left, which would seem to indicate it was inflicted by a left handed person (unless it was inflicted from behind).

'You need to call me now': Delphi murder trial testimony reveals text from Libby's grandmother

The trial of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders resumed Wednesday with testimony from an eyewitness, a forensic pathologist and a police technician.

www.indystar.com

Just my opinion.

No defensive wounds, so slashed from behind works.

 

[ClearAhead]

'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

Cecil said two people were using the phone: Abby and Libby.
The touch ID had 6 fingerprints saved.
Cecil presented a timeline of activity on Libby's phone on that day:

1:41:44 p.m. - A picture was posted to Snapchat
1:43:59 p.m. - Another picture was posted to Snapchat
2:05:10 p.m. - Another picture was posted to Snapchat of the Monon High Bridge
2:07:20 p.m. - Last time the phone was unlocked
2:13:51 p.m. - Video recorded showing Abby walking across the Monon High Bridge with someone behind her
2:14:41 p.m. - Someone tries to unlock the phone
2:32:39 p.m. - Last movement of phone
10:32:06 p.m. - Last signal from phone

So, only about 7 seconds after the bridge guy video is taken, someone tries to unlock the phone. Too many scenarios spring to mind.

Don’t want to imagine…

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

• The phone last locked at 2:07 p.m. Feb. 13, 2017, although someone failed to unlock it with a fingerprint about 7 minutes later.

 

[SouthEnd]

Don’t want to imagine…

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog

Wednesday is day 5 of testimonies in the Delphi Murders trial begins at the Carroll County courthouse. Follow our live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

• The phone last locked at 2:07 p.m. Feb. 13, 2017, although someone failed to unlock it with a fingerprint about 7 minutes later.

I wonder if the 'fail unlock' could be one of the girls grabbing at the phone to hide it better, and their palm touching the fingertip sensor?

 

[Bbgiraffe]

'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

Cecil said two people were using the phone: Abby and Libby.
The touch ID had 6 fingerprints saved.
Cecil presented a timeline of activity on Libby's phone on that day:

1:41:44 p.m. - A picture was posted to Snapchat
1:43:59 p.m. - Another picture was posted to Snapchat
2:05:10 p.m. - Another picture was posted to Snapchat of the Monon High Bridge
2:07:20 p.m. - Last time the phone was unlocked
2:13:51 p.m. - Video recorded showing Abby walking across the Monon High Bridge with someone behind her
2:14:41 p.m. - Someone tries to unlock the phone
2:32:39 p.m. - Last movement of phone
10:32:06 p.m. - Last signal from phone

So, only about 7 seconds after the bridge guy video is taken, someone tries to unlock the phone. Too many scenarios spring to mind.

I don't know about iPhone with the fingerprint ID but I know I dont have to unlock my android phone to make a 911 call there is a button on the bottom of the lock screen that says "emergency call" you just hit and it calls 911.

Did it say Libby's phone had fingerprint ID? Does anyone know if IPhone can make emergency call while still locked?

Maybe trying to call someone/unlock phone with sweaty fingers/nerves/adrenaline and the fingerprint lock didn't unlock.

That is if it had a fingerprint lock I'm trying to catch up here.

 

[MassGuy]

I wonder if the 'fail unlock' could be one of the girls grabbing at the phone to hide it better, and their palm touching the fingertip sensor?

Or trying to dial 911.

 

[SouthEnd]

I don't know about iPhone with the fingerprint ID but I know I dont have to unlock my android phone to make a 911 call there is a button on the bottom of the lock screen that says "emergency call" you just hit and it calls 911.

Did it say Libby's phone had fingerprint ID? Does anyone know if IPhone can make emergency call while still locked?

Maybe trying to call someone/unlock phone with sweaty fingers/nerves/adrenaline and the fingerprint lock didn't unlock.

That is if it had a fingerprint lock I'm trying to catch up here.

It had a fingerprint lock, I believe. If I'm not mistaken t MS mentioned that it recognised both Abby's and Libby's fingerprints and they shared the phone... which breaks my heart. Like sisters...

I know that there is a way to call emergency numbers without unlocking my phone but I just tried and I couldn't remember how to do it. I suppose in the middle of the panic it could be very hard to do while trying to hide your movements...

All MOO

 

[MassGuy]

It had a fingerprint lock, I believe. If I'm not mistaken t MS mentioned that it recognised both Abby's and Libby's fingerprints and they shared the phone... which breaks my heart. Like sisters...

I know that there is a way to call emergency numbers without unlocking my phone but I just tried and I couldn't remember how to do it. I suppose in the middle of the panic it could be very hard to do while trying to hide your movements...

All MOO

Exactly. iPhones have always had that ability as far as I know, but I’ll bet almost no one knows how to use it.

I’ve accidentally done it though.

 

[wastelands_]

Are we going to be expecting anymore court updates or is that it for today? Thanks

 

[MassGuy]

Are we going to be expecting anymore court updates or is that it for today? Thanks

Yes, court should be wrapping up, so anytime now.

 

[wastelands_]

O

Yes, court should be wrapping up, so anytime now.

Of course it’s right as I’m starting work!
Thanks

 

[Cedars]

I was being very unclear, apologies. The DT have been theorising that the girls were abducted and moved to a secondary location. It read to me, as if the only indicator that they did not move from that location was Libby's step tracker that had stopped moving at 2:32pm, and the DT suggested they could have been moved in a car, thus the step counter not registering movement.

However, since the phone was still on, continuously connecting to the tower until past 10pm, it is almost impossible that the girls were taken to another location.

All MOO

Edit: last movement of the phone was 2:32:39, not 2:39

Yes, I agree with that.

However, I hope there will be clarification about pings vs the phone's internal gps.

The internal gps can work regardless of pings. Apple health just uses the phone's internal gps but you don't have to access it through that app. Photo apps, map apps, etc, all use the gps, which is a little chip that connects to a satellite, not cell towers.

It seems to me, the messages arriving so much later, means the phone wasn't in cellphone range where they were killed, until, perhaps, the network briefly connected to a tower and completely died.

ETA, if the phone was out of cellphone range at the scene of the crime, that explains why, if it had been moved elsewhere and then been returned to the site, it would soon have pinged.

JMO

 

[Trebor5591]

I wonder if the 'fail unlock' could be one of the girls grabbing at the phone to hide it better, and their palm touching the fingertip sensor?

Or trying to unlock it in order to surreptitiously record more video and failing to do so because of being in motion, or being discovered by Allen--IMO

 

[Vern]

the defense requested on the 10th of this month that a number of inmates be transported for trial (presumably including their client RA). The above shows one transport order was entered by the judge. That docket entry doesn't show which inmate is testifying.

Can you explain what makes you believe that was for JBC? Sorry, not following you.

I'll bring forth my post #311 from thread #198 (Dated October 13th, but seems so long agao ...)

Transport Order for Inmate # 250845 - James Hass remains the only Motion for Transport so far ORDERED.

Note: On October 10th, Judge Gull entered a Transport Order for IDOC Inmate, but the single upload Order contains only the Order for James Haas thus far:
- James Haas (IDOC Inmate #250845). Motion for Transport: _Motion for Transport of IDOC Inmate.pdf
- Kegan A. Kline (IDOC Inmate #294614). Motion for Transport: not yet granted(??)/uploaded
- James B. Chadwell (IDOC Inmate #286303). Motion for Transport: not yet granted(??)/uploaded
- Ricci D. Davis (IDOC Inmate #114393). Motion for Transport: not yet granted(??)/uploaded

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #198'

Oct 13, 2024

Still trying to catch up. Do they mention the 4th guys' name?

Identified by Defence as Witnesses thus far:
- Mr. W.A. Tobin (FBI)
- Dr. Warren (the Defence's Expert in Firearms Identification)
Both identified here:

_Defendant's Response to State's Motion in Limine Regarding Defense Witness Hearing.pdf

drive.google.com

- Max Baker (identified as a Defence Witness and as a Defence Team Assistant/Supporting Staff). Motion to allow this individual to be present in courtroom throughout trial despite also being a defence witness...

• Vern

• 
• 

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Maybe. But he has a legal right to present an alt explanation per the motion itself which I read earlier. I'll say MOO here since not a lawyer

Impossible.

RA was on suicide watch from 1 April 2023.

3 March 2023 comes before 1 April 2023.

_Testimony of Warden John Galipeau Given at Hearing on Motion to Suppress Held July 31, 2024.pdf

drive.google.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848812492077617391

I think he is on the defense witness list so I think typing his name should be fine!

No, he’s not on the defense list, he’s in prison.

 

[gremlin444]

The report is saying cloth or duct tape, moo in the sense of abrasion from restraint.
Moo a shirt sleeve or cotton rope could leave that kind of mark.

Or the green bandana/handkerchief/hair scarf that was listed as being recovered either in the water or with the girls.

 

[joe jones]

The image of BG from LG phone was enhanced by LE, he was barely visible on the actual recording, so it was put into software (all my very honest opinion from reading differing accounts from court but if you want my post take it) which broke it down frame by frame, 3 frames were used to enhance the image with the analyst deciding what to add /enhance to make it a picture of BG that meant this was what LE thought was what BG looked like, and what he wore (video with BG in it is from a distance)
This is possibly why the BG walking clip was on a loop, as they had very little of BG on the video to work with
It is extraordinary that LG caught him on her recording, LE would have had no idea there was even a man on bridge without her, but to have filmed him when he was so far away even if it was only a very brief glimpse she managed to record means LE feel they have an image of BG from that day forgot to ADD IMHO

 

[tlcya]

I'll bring forth my post #311 from thread #198 (Dated October 13th, but seems so long agao ...)

Transport Order for Inmate # 250845 - James Hass remains the only Motion for Transport so far ORDERED.

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #198'

Oct 13, 2024

Still trying to catch up. Do they mention the 4th guys' name?

Identified by Defence as Witnesses thus far:
- Mr. W.A. Tobin (FBI)
- Dr. Warren (the Defence's Expert in Firearms Identification)
Both identified here:

_Defendant's Response to State's Motion in Limine Regarding Defense Witness Hearing.pdf

drive.google.com

- Max Baker (identified as a Defence Witness and as a Defence Team Assistant/Supporting Staff). Motion to allow this individual to be present in courtroom throughout trial despite also being a defence witness...

• Vern

• 
• 

thank you vern, I have come to rely on your quick ability to locate what is needed. So - not JBC.

 

[Cedars]

Yes, I agree with that.

However, I hope there will be clarification about pings vs the phone's internal gps.

The internal gps can work regardless of pings. Apple health just uses the phone's internal gps but you don't have to access it through that app. Photo apps, map apps, etc, all use the gps, which is a little chip that connects to a satellite, not cell towers.

It seems to me, the messages arriving so much later, means the phone wasn't in cellphone range where they were killed, until, perhaps, the network briefly connected to a tower and completely died.

ETA, if the phone was out of cellphone range at the scene of the crime, that explains why, if it had been moved elsewhere and then been returned to the site, it would soon have pinged.

(I know about this stuff because of following many previous cases.)

JMO

Or, after reading above posts, was the phone just disabled because it got wet, and then dried enough at 4:30 am to function, and then battery died from so many messages being delivered.