Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

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Source: Most of the other photos were of clothes and items found in Deer Creek. The bodies were upstream and north of where the following items were found in the creek:

  • pair of jeans size 26 waist that were inside out with pink colored underwear on the legs
  • one Nike black athletic shoe with white sole and white swoosh, the left shoe
  • a white bandana-type piece of fabric
  • pink footed sock
  • black spaghetti strap shirt that was inside out, size L 10-12
  • tiedye T-shirt, size XL that was inside out
  • black footie sock
  • grey zip up hooded sweatshirt of cotton-type material

So that's Abby's jeans, I would think, and her hoodie/jacket. And Libby's shirts, I'm assuming. Where in the creek? Were all the items found together, I doubt it? There was a dive team there. I'm guessing some of these items came from the original side of the creek and others from the side they crossed over to, but it's just a guess.

(Apologies if this is already noted elsewhere in posts)

So inside out seems to mean to me that BG took them off the girls himself?

I can see a wet shirt and underwear being inside out taking them off yourself... but not the pants.

What do you think? It probably doesn't matter.
 
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I have 0 surprise that the phones didn't connect RA to Libby and Abby. I always trough it was no link between BG and the girls. I always thought and still believe this it is a simple "trail murder". In those crimes, the predador usually lurks the trails in different times waiting for the right victims and opportunity. It is the most difficult type of crime to solve. Usually this kind of crimes are solved by DNA or if there isn't DNA they go cold. Thankfully, RA boxed himself and I hope the jury understand that.

Totally agree on trail murder, who carries a gun and knife/box cutter on a public trail unless your up to no good.
Wonder how many other times he walked that trail looking for opportunity.
Jmo box cutter he probably stole from work at pharmacy.
 
Sharing this prior post of mine for those who may have missed it.

February 13, 2017

At 12:43 p.m. three teen girls and a little girl take a picture on the Monon High Bridge.

At 1:26 p.m. Those same girls take a picture on a bench after having walked the entirety of the approximately one mile trail. They then head westbound toward Freedom Bridge.

At 1:27 p.m. A car that resembles Richard Allen's 2016 Black Ford Focus is seen traveling westbound on CR 300 N. Heading in the direction of the former CPS building.

In his first statement, Richard Allen, says he parked at the old farm bureau building. He says he headed toward Freedom Bridge. He said he was on the trails that day from 1:30 to 3:30 p.m.

In the vicinity of the Freedom Bridge the three teen girls see a man. They describe him as "kind of creepy", "not very tall", had his hands in his pockets, wearing blue or black jeans and a blue or black jacket. He had gray hair maybe a little brown.
He matched the man in the still photo from LG's cellphone video.

Richard Allen said at the Freedom Bridge he saw three females. One was taller and had brown or black hair. He then says he walked to the High Bridge.

Just before 1:46 p.m.
Betsy Blair observed four girls (The three teen girls and the little girl) walking on the bridge over State Road 25 as she was driving underneath.

At 1:46 p.m.
Betsy Blair's car is seen traveling eastbound.
She parks her car across from the Mears farm and starts walking toward the High Bridge.

At 1:49 p.m. Kelsi drops Libby and Abby off across from the Mears' farm.

When Betsy Blair makes it to the High Bridge she
sees a man wearing blue jeans and a blue jeans jacket standing on platform One approximately 50 feet away. He matched the man from the still photo from Libby's cellphone video.

Richard Allen said in his 2022 statement that at the High Bridge he walked out onto platform One. He described himself as wearing blue jeans and a blue or black jacket.

Betsy turns around to finish her walk and halfway between the high bridge and the Mears' farm parking area she sees two girls who she believes to be Libby and Abby. They were headed to the High Bridge.

At 2:05 p.m.
Libby takes a picture of the bridge in between the second and third platforms.

At 2:07 p.m.
Libby gets on the third platform and turns around to take a picture of Abby walking across High Bridge.

Around 2:10 p.m.
A man on his way to Delphi on State Road 25 observes a purple PT cruiser or a small suv type vehicle parked on the South side of the old CPS building. It was backed in as though to conceal it's license plate.

At 2:13 p.m.
While at the end of the High Bridge or very close to it Libby, who is turned toward the beginning of the bridge, begins recording video of a man on her cell phone. The man is coming from the direction of the beginning of the bridge. He is between the fifth and six platforms at the end of the bridge walking behind Abby.

At 2:14 p.m.
Betsy Blair's car is seen leaving westbound from the trails. As she passes by the old CPS building she sees a car parked in an odd manner. It is in the same general spot and backed in like the man observed around 2:10 p.m.

Around 2:28 p.m.
A man sees a small dark colored car parked at the old CPS building. He describes it as possibly a smart car.

At 2:32 p.m.
Libby's phone ceases movement, according to the Apple Health Data on her cellphone.

At 3:57 p.m.
Sarah Carbaugh is driving eastbound down CR 300 N when she sees a man walking westbound away from the Monon High bridge. He matches the man in the still photo from LG's cellphone video. He appears muddy, bloody, and like he's been in a fight.

There were other individuals on the trails or CR 300 N from 2:30 p.m. to 4:11 p.m. and none of these people saw a man resembling Richard Allen on the trails.
What's the source of this? The PCA?
 
The change in elevation information tightens up the "kidnapping" time. IMO
There is almost no time between the change and when the phone stopped moving. I'm having a hard time getting that to work.
(Info from the link)
Cecil said cell phone pings confirmed Libby’s cell phone was in the vicinity of the bridge at 2:05 p.m. A photo posted to Snapchat at this same time showed Abby walking on the bridge. Two minutes later is the last time Libby’s phone would be unlocked.

At 2:13.51 p.m., Libby took the infamous “Bridge Guy” video that captures a man walking behind the girls and telling them, “guys, down the hill.”

At 2:31 p.m., cell phone records note a change in longitude, altitude and elevation. Cecil explained this meant the phone was on the move as the girls were reportedly led down a hill and possibly across Deer Creek.

By 2:32.39 p.m., the phone was no longer moving. It never moved again nor did it ever ping anywhere outside the trails, Deer Creek and the site where the girls’ bodies would be found on Feb.
 
The thread moves fast...Am I right that LE doesn't have the alleged phone RA says he had on the day of the murders? RA had lots of other phones, but no phone to prove he was looking at stock tickers that day? Explain it to me folks, please :)
But he knew the 15 digit IMEI number of his phone and gave it to DD .... How well he can remember, if important! IMO
 
Cecil testified phone didn't power off at 10:32 so where was it at 10pm since "we" know? Don't include me in your we because i dont know where it was. JMO


Edited to correct link

As he knows it connected to the tower at that time for the 2nd last time, and there was no movement on the phone since before 3pm, we can safely infer it sat in the same location for those 7-8 hours

For the defence story to work, the phone needed to be turned off before 3pm

If you disagree, please explain how the phone was switched off after 10pm and then back on at 4.30am?
 
I think you should talk about phones more! Indeed I think I found a tech kindred spirit!

I really feel the defence and especially the likes of Bob Motta have been pushing an inference (phone must have been switched off) which is actually not supported by data that we know of.

Indeed it is the lack of that data which is the headache for Cecil. e.g if someone picked up the phone and switched it off, IMO you'd get activity on the phone logs like 'screen on' and 'off'. But he doesn't have that - so his inferences are based off the absence of such logs. There is a last access of the device. A last attempted access. Then no more movement.

So the lack of anything else happening leads him to conclude the phone was dropped or placed, then sits there turned on and losing power until 10pm when it connects for the 2nd to last time. In other words, the lack of human activity, but presence of autonomous activity leads to the inference that the phone was on and sitting forlornly in the forest for those 7 hours.

What happened between 10pm and 4.30pm Cecil cannot say precisely because nothing happened in that time that he can see. But he does know the phone was on and not moving until 10. So the most logical inference is it just sat there for another 6 and half hours with bingo battery.

What makes no sense at all IMO, is to claim someone turned it off at 10 and on at 6.30 because Cecil would have seen logs of that.

Maybe the defence will have an expert who can explain all this. Let's see.

MOO
Moo...
I don't think he was a great witness. Based on questions the jury ask, he could not answer I was very disappointed. I mean he didn't even call AT&t to see if there was a problem with a tower he didn't contact Apple. I think he was consumed with his new program and did not seek answers just assumed. Assuming in a trial is never a good thing from a witness.

They would have been better off to turn the phone over to the FBI. Quantico is amazing, and far exceed ISP capabilities. I've done the tour at Quantico numerous times on school field trips. Quantum is the best of the best.

Moo
 
As he knows it connected to the tower at that time for the 2nd last time, and there was no movement on the phone since before 3pm, we can safely infer it sat in the same location for those 7-8 hours

For the defence story to work, the phone needed to be turned off before 3pm

If you disagree, please explain how the phone was switched off after 10pm and then back on at 4.30am?
It's not the defense story that has to work.

It's the prosecution's timeline that has to be proven BARD.
 
Google AI had this to say when I searched...

"why do some Snapchat photos saved in the app's data and others aren't"

Answer:

"Some Snapchat photos save in the app's data while others don't because of the "Memories" feature - if you actively choose to save a snap to your Memories, it will be stored within the Snapchat app, while any snap that isn't saved manually will typically be deleted from the server after it's viewed, meaning it won't be stored in your Snapchat data."

Maybe the reason the pic of Abby wasn't in the data was because they were crossing that decrepit and dangerous bridge and Libby didn't want the evidence of it on her phone, she didn't mark it to save in her Memories? The friend they were chatting with saved it to hers.Sounds like young teen thinking to me. MO
Wow, how embarrassing the state witness didn't know this or bother to research it.

The jury questions lead me to believe an experienced IT person is on the jury.

Moo
 
As he knows it connected to the tower at that time for the 2nd last time, and there was no movement on the phone since before 3pm, we can safely infer it sat in the same location for those 7-8 hours

For the defence story to work, the phone needed to be turned off before 3pm

If you disagree, please explain how the phone was switched off after 10pm and then back on at 4.30am?

Where are you seeing the phone was switched off after 10pm?
 
Moo...
I don't think he was a great witness. Based on questions the jury ask, he could not answer I was very disappointed. I mean he didn't even call AT&t to see if there was a problem with a tower he didn't contact Apple. I think he was consumed with his new program and did not seek answers just assumed. Assuming in a trial is never a good thing from a witness.

They would have been better off to turn the phone over to the FBI. Quantico is amazing, and far exceed ISP capabilities. I've done the tour at Quantico numerous times on school field trips. Quantum is the best of the best.

Moo

I am hoping there is a different witness to talk about the towers - a proper CAST expert.

I also think the witness cannot speak outside of what the evidence says. We can all speculate why it happened (most likely some combination of low battery, topography, the phone being under a body etc).

But this is all a misdirection. We know where the phone was until after 10. That ends the defence's latest fantasy. It really doesn't matter what happened at 4.30am
 
The defence are the ones that claim the phone was switched off, and then switched back on at 4.30am

But we now know it was on at least until after 10pm

So I am asking for any way the defence theory can still work?

 
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