Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[Web_Sleuth]

Source: Most of the other photos were of clothes and items found in Deer Creek. The bodies were upstream and north of where the following items were found in the creek:

• pair of jeans size 26 waist that were inside out with pink colored underwear on the legs
• one Nike black athletic shoe with white sole and white swoosh, the left shoe
• a white bandana-type piece of fabric
• pink footed sock
• black spaghetti strap shirt that was inside out, size L 10-12
• tiedye T-shirt, size XL that was inside out
• black footie sock
• grey zip up hooded sweatshirt of cotton-type material

https://www.wane.com/news/crime/delphi-trial-day-3-testimony-included-crime-scene-photos/

So that's Abby's jeans, I would think, and her hoodie/jacket. And Libby's shirts, I'm assuming. Where in the creek? Were all the items found together, I doubt it? There was a dive team there. I'm guessing some of these items came from the original side of the creek and others from the side they crossed over to, but it's just a guess.

Graphic photos shown to jury on Day 3 of Delphi double homicide trial

DELPHI, Ind. (WLFI) — Richard Allen was back in court for Day Three of the Delphi double homicide trial.

www.wlfi.com

(Apologies if this is already noted elsewhere in posts)

I find Abby’s jeans inside out with underwear attached interesting - sounds like she was undressed…pants pulled down in a way to become completely inside out. Then redressed in Libby’s wet clothes. IMO

 

[BUF]

2:31 pm – two-floor elevation change

That is a very steep decline…..terrifying enough to maneuver….then add a man controlling you with a gun. Those poor girls.

Did the girls run to the water trying to escape from him?

 

[Deleted member 296739]

If he doesn't know why it's happening, he really can't say if he's wrong or right. He suspected before he was right, now he suspects he is probably wrong.

I find this concerning, that he changed his mind and offers no explanation for the situation- I don’t know” is very different (in my mind) to “well it could be any number of reasons XYZ but I don’t know which one …”

Personally there are times when I loose a good signal and then later a bunch of texts come through all at once sometimes as iMessages sometimes as “text” messages-

Maybe I’m just totally wrong and ignorant of all things technology related- but I’d assumed that activity would be rather obvious or simple and if it’s not, then what leads him to believe one thing and then change his mind later- but if it doesn’t obviously show in a log being turned on or off or loosing signal then I could imagine it getting switched to airplane mode or something or turned off and on undetected

Seems rather bizarre that the expert didn’t know or have a guess what happened- moo

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849419178953854993

 

[arielilane]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog​

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Updated: Oct 24, 2024 / 08:59 AM EST

 

[MassGuy]

And why in the world would anyone take the girls and then return them to the same general location, only in a place that's even harder for them to reach, and in the dark. Wouldn't perps dump bodies far away from where people would be searching and pick a spot that would be easier on them?!

Makes zero sense.

jmo

They wouldn’t. They couldn’t. They didn’t.

 

[Gerrymd8]

I'm concerned...

•witness statements don't match RA, have changed over time
•the pathologist, changing his conclusion on the witness stand, was NOT a serrated knife. Why didn't he check this out with his peers? I'm also disappointed in the autopsy results, did he ever acknowledge if he took clippings from Libby. Moo ... It was stated Abby was a nail biter and had nothing to cut.

•IT tech changes his testimony to now say the phone was not turned off, he originally assumed it was off do the battery.

I'm definitely Team Prosecution !!! Hoping P can bring forth creditable, intelligence and extremely confident witnesses today.

Moo

I do think it is concerning at this moment. However, I think the fact that all of the witness said they saw bridge guy is enough. It's a timeline. The prosecution should be able to put Richard Allen on the trails and on the bridge at the same time that the witnesses saw bridge guy. (After all, HE told them the times and places he was that day).
I thought the Tech guy did a good job saying they have new technology he used. And he did.
The pathologist, I believe from listening to several YouTube, Podcasters who were there said he did say both girls nails were too short to get anything from, especially Abby. Also, the Pathologist did not change his report, he merely stated his theory as to what he thought the weapon was; perhaps he just didn't know at that time. How many murders has he seen with a boxcutter being the weapon? BUT, I think when all is said and done, the prosecution, fingers crossed, will have presented everything that stacks up to it being Richard Allen. Just my opinion and my opinion has no real value to the case. Have a great Thursday everyone!

 

[susane7]

According to Murder sheet, Richard Allen had 23 devices in his home and kept all of his old phones. From the product registration number they were missing one phone when collecting them and were not able to search it. The phone he had in 2017.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

In your opinion, yet it is still allowed to be presented at trials in Indiana.

MOO

Any other states?

 

[chaz]

The phone stayed where it was and lost signal for any number of reasons. At some point in the early morning, atmospherics slightly improved and the phone regained a signal. This is not an uncommon phenomenon in the slightest, especially in rural areas with spotty cell service.

JMO

Is it possible dat the phone lost signal because the few cell towers got overloaded with phone calls from people informing eachother that two girls got missing and that search parties were going on? I can imagine people making phone calls when they hear the news.

 

[Justice101]

I find Abby’s jeans inside out with underwear attached interesting - sounds like she was undressed…pants pulled down in a way to become completely inside out. Then redressed in Libby’s wet clothes. IMO

Good point. The more I think about it the more that seems logical.

Was clothing removed after she was killed or before? Clothes in the water would still probably be stained.

Sadly, I think this may mean that they were disrobed before being killed. But how would he have done that without having to restrain at least one of them?

I always thought they would find handcuffs, zip ties or duct tape but none of that... so he must have had a gun on one of then then forced the other to take off their clothes. Maybe one at a time then reverse.

But how did Abby end up with Libby's clothes? I mean it is hard to redress someone even if you put baggy clothes on them from another person. Did he kill them then try to redress Libby, which was too hard to do and then just did Abby with Libby's clothes.. .then threw all the other clothes in the creek?

Not that this matters, by whomever did this is one very disturbed person.

 

[FrostedGlass]

That is a very steep decline…..terrifying enough to maneuver….then add a man controlling you with a gun. Those poor girls.

Did the girls run to the water trying to escape from him?

I think it's about 60 feet from the bridge down to the base of the hill. I have no idea why the phone only showed 20 feet.

 

[MassGuy]

According to Murder sheet, Richard Allen had 23 devices in his home and kept all of his old phones. From the product registration number they were missing one phone when collecting them and were not able to search it. The phone he had in 2017.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that phone disappeared right after that initial (lost) interview. He provided the officer identifying information about that phone, which probably would have concerned him that it might be searched at some point.

Which reminds me, I don’t think we know how that interview came about. I’m assuming that he contacted LE, but I don’t think we know for sure.

 

[Yemelyan]

According to Murder sheet, Richard Allen had 23 devices in his home and kept all of his old phones. From the product registration number they were missing one phone when collecting them and were not able to search it. The phone he had in 2017.

If this were any other case on Websleuths, one without all the baggage and tribalism over prosecution vs. defense, we would be all over this nugget of information as incredibly telling.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I find Abby’s jeans inside out with underwear attached interesting - sounds like she was undressed…pants pulled down in a way to become completely inside out. Then redressed in Libby’s wet clothes. IMO

My laundry hamper and the floors of my kids’ rooms show that this is a common phenomenon especially with skinny jeans or joggers/sweatpants - especially when done quickly or with damp clothing- so the inside out with underwear doesn’t imply anything other than haste to me-

Could have been someone undressed her or she did it herself under duress- moo

 

[m00c0w]

I find this concerning, that he changed his mind and offers no explanation for the situation- I don’t know” is very different (in my mind) to “well it could be any number of reasons XYZ but I don’t know which one …”

Personally there are times when I loose a good signal and then later a bunch of texts come through all at once sometimes as iMessages sometimes as “text” messages-

Maybe I’m just totally wrong and ignorant of all things technology related- but I’d assumed that activity would be rather obvious or simple and if it’s not, then what leads him to believe one thing and then change his mind later- but if it doesn’t obviously show in a log being turned on or off or loosing signal then I could imagine it getting switched to airplane mode or something or turned off and on undetected

Seems rather bizarre that the expert didn’t know or have a guess what happened- moo

Do you want him to just guess?

He is an expert in the field of cellphone forensics. He can only go by what is retrieved from the phone. If there were no logs showing it was powered off, or put on airplane mode, or whatever… he would have no way of knowing what exactly happened to cause it to no longer receive text messages until 4:33am the next morning.

As far as his opinion changing, it sounds like he went back after being questioned by the defense and did research about the matter so he was better-informed. That’s pretty much what I would expect him to do.

If the defense has an expert witness that will testify the phone was 100% turned off and back on, good for them and I look forward to hearing the rationale.

JMO

 

[BUF]

According to Murder sheet, Richard Allen had 23 devices in his home and kept all of his old phones. From the product registration number they were missing one phone when collecting them and were not able to search it. The phone he had in 2017.

For someone to keep all his old phones, but not the one phone he had during the murders….highly suspicious imo.

 

[m00c0w]

I strongly suspect we will hear from CAST soon, and that will shed some light on signal/no signal with the phone never moving.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

I think it's about 60 feet from the bridge down to the base of the hill. I have no idea why the phone only showed 20 feet.

Iiuc the phone didn't calculate for distance but did for elevation, hence 20 feet (of elevation change).

JMO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Do you want him to just guess?

Not at all- my thought was that there would be several possible scenarios and he wasn’t sure which was the most plausible- vs no idea and this phone was an anomaly- moo