Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[susane7]

If this were any other case on Websleuths, one without all the baggage and tribalism over prosecution vs. defense, we would be all over this nugget of information as incredibly telling.

Absolutely agree. It is another more piece of circunstancial evidence and coincidence.

Kevin say he was surprised when in the cross-examination the prosecutor didn't object when Auger asked if there anything in the devices that connected RA to Abby and Libby but a minutes later he understand why the prosecutor didn't. Mcleland wanted to talk abut Allen's devices and when the witness said the only one missing was the one from 2017, the jury seemed to react to that according to Kevin.

 

[MassGuy]

Any other states?

Ballistic evidence is allowed in every state, and that’s been the case for decades. Maryland requires it to be presented in a certain way though, not that it applies here.

 

[Bergmann]

This is their actual defence per opening.

But so?

I was under the impression that they don't have to prove it.

Again, the only party that needs to prove their case are the prosecution. I can see why some folks are obsessing over the defense though.

JMO

 

[charminglane]

Pondering this morning if the residue around Abby's mouth could be from first aid tape?

 

[Justice101]

Is it possible dat the phone lost signal because the few cell towers got overloaded with phone calls from people informing eachother that two girls got missing and that search parties were going on? I can imagine people making phone calls when they hear the news.

I think it is more likely that the battery was fine (battery charges usually last 18-24 hours)... but that the reception was very bad down in that low lying sheltered dip in the woods. Over millennia, that creek has carved a small gorge or canyon out and hard to get a signal in there.

As we all know signals are not constant and sometimes other environmental things can happen to make the signal suddenly just be enough to connect... weather conditions play a role as well as sometimes a plane flying overhead will momentarily "bounce" a signal that it saw directly and bounces it down in a clear straight line to the phone.

Just me talking but to me, probably weather humidity, temperature, wind... created the right combination and texts are not much data at all. that could transmit to the phone if they only had a second or two.

JMO

 

[Trebor5591]

So he hoarded his phones 23 of them to count but the one at the time murders oddly he didn’t have. No doubt the jury will see that for exactly what it is.

23 phones seems excessive to me. In the same time period I've had 3 phones, and I use mine every day. I wonder why he had so many phones?

 

[FrostedGlass]

According to Murder sheet, Richard Allen had 23 devices in his home and kept all of his old phones. From the product registration number they were missing one phone when collecting them and were not able to search it. The phone he had in 2017.

How does anyone know he kept all of his old phones? Just because the family had 23 devices?

 

[twall]

There are several new entries on the CCS. I would post them but it is difficult with my phone.

 

[MassGuy]

But so?

I was under the impression that they don't have to prove it.

Again, the only party that needs to prove their case are the prosecution. I can see why some folks are obsessing over the defense though.

JMO

Of course the defense doesn’t have to prove it. But when you have evidence from the prosecution that conclusively shows one thing, and the defense counter is completely ineffective in refuting it, then that’s one more piece that helps to make the case.

 

[tlcya]

So inside out seems to mean to me that BG took them off the girls himself?

I can see a wet shirt and underwear being inside out taking them off yourself... but not the pants.

What do you think? It probably doesn't matter.

I have peeled off wet jeans after being stuck in a downpour on the Harley. They absolutely were stuck to me because, soaked. On removing them the only way I COULD get them off was to peel them off inside out (and even that was a struggle) and my panties came with them. I believe 100% her clothing being inside out like that could happen as she herself removed them.

I have also been soaked by rain and had to use the restroom. It was near impossible to get those jeans back up and fastened as they stick to your skin. I suspect that is why Abby was wearing Libby's (larger sized) jeans. Easier to get back into than the struggle that would have been her own JMO

 

[MassGuy]

How does anyone know he kept all of his old phones? Just because the family had 23 devices?

His phone provider would logically have a record of every device he had registered with them over the years. I think it would simply be a matter of comparing that vs what they found.

 

[Justice101]

I think it's about 60 feet from the bridge down to the base of the hill. I have no idea why the phone only showed 20 feet.

I thought it was explained that the 20 feet was actually only the elevation change. Counting # of floors @ 10 ft per floor.

 

[m00c0w]

But so?

I was under the impression that they don't have to prove it.

Again, the only party that needs to prove their case are the prosecution. I can see why some folks are obsessing over the defense though.

JMO

If the defense does not put forward an argument as to how it could not have been RA, they are done. The prosecution has to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, but it’s the defense’s job to show reasonable doubt in the prosecution’s argument. A routine way this is done is through alternative theories. If the defense is saying “it wasn’t my guy, it happened in this other way” in an attempt to show why the prosecution’s data looks bad, but their client is innocent… there has to be some credibility towards this theory. Otherwise they have not discredited the prosecution’s theory and the evidence continues to stack up against their client.

Yes, the burden of proof is on the prosecution. However, the defense chose to go this route, so they have created their own burden they must meet for their defense to actually work. They chose to introduce alternate suspects or theories instead of just outright attacking the prosecution’s theory.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Iiuc the phone didn't calculate for distance but did for elevation, hence 20 feet (of elevation change).

JMO

That's way beyond my realm of expertise. Please elaborate.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Might be a dumb question-
Do we know if her phone was tested for fingerprints? Or specifically that it was not tested?

 

[raja]

Just to play devil’s advocate the girls could have been moved and the phone remained at the abduction site. IMHO I dont think the girls were taken anywhere else unless it was somewhere close by such as a property on Deer Creek. It would be risky to return them unless that place they would have been taken to was close to where they were found.

 

[Melted]

“At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law and justice he is the worst.” - Aristotle

 

[loveisthemovement]

23 phones seems excessive to me. In the same time period I've had 3 phones, and I use mine every day. I wonder why he had so many phones?

I think it may be 23 devices. Not all phones.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

But so?

I was under the impression that they don't have to prove it.

Again, the only party that needs to prove their case are the prosecution. I can see why some folks are obsessing over the defense though.

JMO

Me too, lol. But remember, the defense is only doing their job. And each one of us here should all be grateful that the American justice system is designed to protect our freedom from being unjustly accused and prosecuted for a crime we did not commit. IMO

 

[Justice101]

That's way beyond my realm of expertise. Please elaborate.

It was stated that there were 2 different measures of GPS data from her iPhone:
1) Elevation change
2) Distance (or steps taken).

The 20 ft was the elevation change....and I thought I saw somewhere there were 400+ steps taken before the phone stopped moving... or something like that.. but don't quote me on that.