Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[AugustWest]

Also, isn't it illegal to lie on a government form like a fishing license?

Lying to a date isn't against the law.

We are going to be locking a lot of people up for lying about weight/height on their drivers' licenses.

 

[joe jones]

They seized about 15 cellphones.
I think 2 computers, a few pagers, a garmin, an iPod, and at least one hard drive were mentioned in the warrant return.

At least 5 of the phones were flip phones, another 3 were specified as “old” then a few that were identified as like LG Verizon phone or Motorola smart phone with no more identifiers

the phones that were listed with model details were…
Samsung galaxy a42 releases on 11/11/2020
Google pixel 3a released 5/14/2019
LG cosmo ~ released in 2010 & 2011 version not specified
Nokia twist announced in 2009
Then another unspecified galaxy with a floral case

Seems like a lot of old phones. Pixel and galaxy in my mind were likely current phones based on arrest date. After those two most recent were over 10 years old and nothing identified that could have been his wife’s during that period like you mentioned …so doesn’t seem suspicious to me but idk

Looking at that list a 2017 phone being missing is no issue,

 

[Inthedetails]

Context is everything. A woman who does that, is going to have a habit of doing that. This guy told the truth the first time on that document, then added 2 inches when he renewed (shortly after the murders).

Again, it’s just interesting. I’m sure there’s a lot more where that came from.

And, if a woman goes from age 56 to 49 after a few dates....that man ain't fooled.

jmo

 

[Myvice]

He probably held one with a knife or gun and had the other girl comply. But like you, 2 would be much harder.

Maybe he killed one early to make it easier on himself.

My thought on this is that he had them both undress, realized that LG was less likely to run away without her clothes and Abby was too intimidated to run so it wasn't a problem for her to have clothes on. LG showed such courage when she was recording on her phone, but a 14 year old girl would be very self-conscious of her body and less likely to try to escape if she were naked. MOO

 

[m00c0w]

Yeah. People wanted bombshells and yesterday delivered them. According to MS reporting this statement by the ME came as a total shock to Rozzi.

Source,

MOO.

Another example of why you don’t project out your strategy and theory for months. This type of thing is critical because thoughts and opinions aren’t discoverable. You can depose people, but you’ll have no idea if they come across new evidence in the meantime that changes their thoughts or opinions on a subject. If you say something to a witness pre-trial and they go and dig into that thing and do research into that subject (which is extremely permissible), you risk being caught off guard and making a major mistake.

JMO

 

[RyanHenson]

The oft forgotten other side of fight or flight is fawn or freeze. The subconcious makes a split second choice at what will best aid survival. No telling what your body will do until you are in the moment. It was terribly risky, I agree, but not a forgone conclusion that the girls would fight or flee. Just my opinion.

Total speculation, but I bet he took out Abby first and focused on Libby since her injuries were far more severe. I could be wrong, though.

 

[mrjitty]

Another example of why you don’t project out your strategy and theory for months. This type of thing is critical because thoughts and opinions aren’t discoverable. You can depose people, but you’ll have no idea if they come across new evidence in the meantime that changes their thoughts or opinions on a subject. If you say something to a witness pre-trial and they go and dig into that thing and do research into that subject (which is extremely permissible), you risk being caught off guard and making a major mistake.

JMO

I think you are spot on. Like the phone. They should never have pushed this so hard pre trial and especially at the 3 day hearing. It should be something they raised now on cross, to give the idea the killer came back to the scene, Instead they have an over-torqued second location theory that is just a non starter and Cecil was ready.

IMO

 

[Inthedetails]

If I was on MHB and completely innocent, I would have no concern about when or where I spoke to LE. I mean they offered 2 places and he turned them down? They spoke to over 300 local men, I wonder if they all got to pick the meeting location?

I think RA wasn't going to go anywhere near the police station for fear of being identified. These are all the 'bricks' in the wall of guilt for RA IMO.

MOO

I agree. If LE called me up and wanted to talk to me as a follow-up, I would shift into cooperation mode immediately, not really thinking I had a choice but to go to the police station or have them at my home, and I would agree to it. I would defer to their convenience, not mine. I realize that is not a requirement, but I expect it would be my reaction.

In itself, his request to meet in a parking lot really doesn't mean anything. Stacked along with other things, it looks strange and avoidant. That's my opinion.

jmo

 

[RyanHenson]

My thought on this is that he had them both undress, realized that LG was less likely to run away without her clothes and Abby was too intimidated to run so it wasn't a problem for her to have clothes on. LG showed such courage when she was recording on her phone, but a 14 year old girl would be very self-conscious of her body and less likely to try to escape if she were naked. MOO

I think he killed one immediately and got his "kicks" with Libby. Her injuries were far more severe, and he took more time with her.

 

[Inthedetails]

Total speculation, but I bet he took out Abby first and focused on Libby since her injuries were far more severe. I could be wrong, though.

I have played different scenarios in my mind and agree that is possible. It also could be why Libby did fight so hard - if she saw what just happened to Abby.

I can also see it the opposite order too.

I still don't understand the clothing, though, and I wonder if we ever will.

jmo

 

[ClearAhead]

What podcast is that?

https://murdersheetpodcast.com/

 

[dub]

Context is everything. A woman who does that, is going to have a habit of doing that. This guy told the truth the first time on that document, then added 2 inches when he renewed (shortly after the murders).

Again, it’s just interesting. I’m sure there’s a lot more where that came from.

When RA made the change on his license, had the suspect description already been released? I can’t recall how quickly that came out.

If it had, it means he changed his height from outside the range given for BG to into it, which is even weirder.

 

[RyanHenson]

I really wish this was televised or some sort of live transcript

Because if I had potentially killed two people I wouldn’t want to be interviewed at my house, I might have evidence lying around, I wouldn’t want to go to the station because they would probably crank up the heat and ask if they could see my hands and arms real quick. But in a grocery store parking lot in the middle of February, I’m wearing a hoodie and my winter jacket to cover up any marks, I wonder if he asked to see RA’s hands and arms there

This was posted earier...

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

wishtv.com

 

[Yemelyan]

The Carroll County Comet went live with details about the Shank and Dulin testimony and how RA self-reported himself. They also covered the direct of Steve Mullin, who was on the stand for the third time.

Kathy Shank entered tips into the program Orion. She came across a filebox in a desk drawer which she didn't even know how it got there. This filebox contained the tipsheet on RA. She took it to Liggett who immediately began the investigation into RA that led to his arrest.

Steve Mullin gave details on the first time RA was interviewed by LE after the tip was uncovered. When RA was first interviewed, he was Mirandized and let law enforcement look at his phone and gave his password. As time went on, Mullin said he became agitated and walked out. They gave him a ride back to his home, after which they acquired the search warrant and the search began. Mullin asked him why he called in the tip on that day (Feb 16th, 2017) and RA said "Because I talked to my wife and told her that's where I was." They asked him if the image could be him and he said 'If this image was taken with the girls' camera, there's no way it could be me."

Source: 4.3K views · 79 reactions | Carroll County Comet was live. | By Carroll County Comet | Facebook

 

[RyanHenson]

https://murdersheetpodcast.com/

Thank you!

 

[New Penny]

His phone provider would logically have a record of every device he had registered with them over the years. I think it would simply be a matter of comparing that vs what they found.

Unless it was a burner

 

[FrostedGlass]

RA sure does have a lot of bad luck.

He sure does have a lot of something.

Having a bout of apparent forgetfulness that resulted in changing the hours of being on the trail so they closer match the time of the murders is just unreal.
MOO

 

[shonyakay]

I can't wait to hear fiber evidence and the possible destruction of evidence by RA.

 

[ClearAhead]

Interesting thought! He said he was reading a "stock ticker" at the time so there is a possibility that app collected data, not to mention any of the other apps working in the background.

I’m waiting for a case to be solved some day by an ‘eye in the sky’ that just happened to be focused on the spot the accused parked. So the vehicle coming and going can easily be viewed, if not the crime itself, through satellite imagery. JMO

 

[Bergmann]

Yes.

Sidenote: All of this info came from RA's PCA except the 2:32 p.m. info about Libby's phone ceasing movement. That came from Cecil's testimony. I thought it was important to add.

Edited to add: The info about the 2:05 p.m. and 2:07 p.m. photographs also come from Cecil's testimony and they were also important to add.

The rest is all contained in Allen's PCA. I just compiled it in chronological order.

Thanks.

So as such it's still the state's contention or theoretical timeline until proven by evidence/ testimony?

It would be interesting to check off each time stamp against what we've heard in court as we go.

JMO