Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[Deleted member 39678]

OP meant that it is "UNIque to this case"

not Unique all over the world.

I agree. And I haven't heard what brand the rounds are yet. Unless I missed that important piece of information.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Several of those terms are interchangeable:
a cartridge = a casing and a bullet, intact & unfired (a unit of ammunition)
a round = same as a cartridge
an unspent cartridge = same as a round

a .40 caliber round = .40 Smith & Wesson is a specific sized round (they come in all different sizes)
a spent cartridge = the part of a round that's left behind after the projectile is fired, the casing
a magazine = a clip, the part of a gun that holds the ammunition
tool marking = in this case, junk science IMHO

Can you elaborate on why you say “tool marking” is junk science?

 

[smamda]

That's to investigate.

Very different to having somebody on the stand - witnesses can say stuff you don't want them to say (for either side).

Yes exactly. And also, the sketches will actually not be shown in trial based on motions filed since trial started.

 

[twall]

The fishing license is a red herring.

Lol I see what you did there and I agree!
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However, on cross examination, defense attorney Bradley Rozzi argued that previous fishing licenses had listed Allen’s height at 5′ 6″. Then it was 5′ 4″ in 2016 and changed back to 5′ 6″ in 2017.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-tip-marked-cleared-found-while-cleaning-out-desk-put-richard-allen-on-the-radar-in-2022/

 

[katydid23]

Can I ask why would the defense need to say the girls were taken away and returned to the CS?

How would that help the defense? I am struggling understanding that motivation. help me

I think they want the girls to be taken off scene and returned later because RA probably has a solid alibi late afternoon and through the night. If D can prove the murders happened in the middle of the night, then RA is potentially off the hook. IMO

 

[Cedars]

The people who are most used to backing in to parking spots are LE.

I was at a bar and grille and noticed almost all the cars had been backed in to their spots. I jokingly said “what’s going on tonight, police retirement party?” The hostess nodded and said “yep!”

I don't doubt it. They have to be prepared for quickly driving off ...wait a sec....

 

[TristanP]

I agree. From the questions the jury doesn't seem to expect "bombshell evidence" as if real life was like CSI. I think Nick said that in the voir dire. Many times a case is circunstancial, especially when they find the guy 6 years later and he had time to rid over the evidence..I don't think they have "a bombshell". They have bricks and bricks of circunstancial evidence that points to one person.

if they hadn't misfiled that interview with RA, the case would be a slam dunk and would be solved in the first week IMO. It is frustating.

Or, they would have interviewed RA and then lost that video along with the other 3 weeks’ worth of interviews, and everything would still be a big mess like it is now.

 

[Betty P]

You think this is some sign of guilt, rather than a frustrated man whose property has just been gone through with a fine tooth comb being glad LE is done and not wanting to prolong his interaction with them after that?

If he were an innocent guy being asked to fill out a form that could help him claim some compensation for damage to his property, yes, his answer might be different.

He might be upset with LE for damaging his property.

He might be interested in the form and how he should go about filing a claim

He would probably have questions about the search and what LE might be planning next

He might be anxious about how much it was going to cost him to fix or replace his furniture and possessions.

Being resigned, hopeless and giving up seems a less likely scenario. It might be typical of someone who is guilty and had been waiting 7 years for that knock on his door.

JMO

 

[otto]

Lol I see what you did there and I agree!
----------------------------------------------------------
However, on cross examination, defense attorney Bradley Rozzi argued that previous fishing licenses had listed Allen’s height at 5′ 6″. Then it was 5′ 4″ in 2016 and changed back to 5′ 6″ in 2017.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-tip-marked-cleared-found-while-cleaning-out-desk-put-richard-allen-on-the-radar-in-2022/

How tall is he according to arrest reports - where he is standing up straight?

 

[katydid23]

I find this concerning, that he changed his mind and offers no explanation for the situation- I don’t know” is very different (in my mind) to “well it could be any number of reasons XYZ but I don’t know which one …”

Personally there are times when I loose a good signal and then later a bunch of texts come through all at once sometimes as iMessages sometimes as “text” messages-

Maybe I’m just totally wrong and ignorant of all things technology related- but I’d assumed that activity would be rather obvious or simple and if it’s not, then what leads him to believe one thing and then change his mind later- but if it doesn’t obviously show in a log being turned on or off or loosing signal then I could imagine it getting switched to airplane mode or something or turned off and on undetected

Seems rather bizarre that the expert didn’t know or have a guess what happened- moo

I think we need to hear and read several reporters before we assume that the phone expert didn't answer more fully. IMO I read one report and some testimony sounds awful--then another report explains it differently and it sounds like it was a good witness. Very confusing to follow this trial sometimes. IMO

 

[Yemelyan]

After Allen ended an interview with police on October 13, 2022 at the police station, the officer drove Allen back home, then got a search warrant and officers returned to search his house, testimony in court Thursday outlined.

That police search resulted in finding at least six knives and boxcutters, a .40 cal SIG Sauer handgun, one Winchester .40 cal Smith & Wesson round, two magazines full of Blazer .40 cal Smith & Wesson rounds, a blue hooded Carhart jacket, at least a dozen cell phones ranging from smart phones to flip phones, pagers, and photo albums of pictures of the Monon High Bridge dating back to 2008.

Prosecutors and Indiana State Police investigator Lt. Jerry Holeman took that handgun out of the sealed evidence box in court to show it to the jury up close.

One of the police photos was a picture of three photographs of Richard Allen found in his home. One from February 2016 showed Allen by a creek, one from March 2016 showed Allen with a fish and one from April 2016 showed Allen looking off down a trail. The posture in all three photos appeared to be slightly hunched over.

The one Winchester .40 cal Smith & Wesson unspent round found was in what Vido called a “keepsake box” on a dresser in the master bedroom. All the other rounds were Blazer bullets.

The SIG Sauer handgun was found in the nightstand next to Allen’s bed. Testimony said they knew it was Allen’s side of the bed because clothes with CVS on it were on the floor on that side.

Source: https://www.wane.com/top-stories/de...-desk-put-richard-allen-on-the-radar-in-2022/

 

[TristanP]

What! Okay, so the Carhartt jacket found at RA's home did not link to the crime scene...
Is there more than one Carhartt jacket owned by RA?
Will there be more about this jacket during trial tomorrow?

Re: Sheriff Liggett testimony:

Also found during the search of Allen’s home was a blue Carhartt jacket.


During cross-examination, Allen’s attorneys asked Liggett point-blank if any items sent to the lab, such as the blue Carhartt jacket taken from Allen’s home, were found to have DNA evidence linking Allen to the crime scene.

Liggett said, “no.”

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

They took many items of clothing from his house. Assuming they tested them appropriately, there has been zero evidence connecting those items with Libby & Abby.

IIRC he owned multiple jacket/coats similar to the one in the BG photo. As do maybe a couple other million midwestern men.

 

[katydid23]

But so?

I was under the impression that they don't have to prove it.

Again, the only party that needs to prove their case are the prosecution. I can see why some folks are obsessing over the defense though.

JMO

No, they don't have to prove it. But if they are an offering alternative scenario, in hopes of giving a solid alibi to the defendant, then they do need to offer some element of proof in order for it to be effective. IMO

 

[katydid23]

They took many items of clothing from his house. Assuming they tested them appropriately, there has been zero evidence connecting those items with Libby & Abby.

IIRC he owned multiple jacket/coats similar to the one in the BG photo. As do maybe a couple other million midwestern men.

Does anyone expect there'd be DNA or Blood stains 6 years later?

 

[Yemelyan]

Does anyone else remember when Barbara MacDonald had a report for HLN about the search of RA's home, she reported that his neighbors told her one of the items they saw investigators carrying out were stacks of small books? Could these be the photo albums of Monon High Bridge pictures dating back to 2008 that were mentioned in court today?

 

[statt#1]

dbm

 

[Rush4087]

This clears that up.

Holeman claims Allen responded by saying, “why bother, it’s all over.” Holeman claimed Allen repeated this line when later asked if he wanted to be taken to see his wife.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

Clear as mud though..

I wasn’t asking which quote was correct (fwiw I believe Holeman said that RA said: “it doesn’t matter, it’s over”, but I could be wrong and am not arguing one side or the other)

I was merely pointing out that two different MSM articles covering Holeman’s testimony provide two different quotes to describe the same, very short statement

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/de...-desk-put-richard-allen-on-the-radar-in-2022/

All jmo

 

[Cedars]

Someone, please, explain why I’m supposed to care about RA’s fishing license.

He changed his height from 5'4 on the old licence to 5'6 on the one in 2017. It just seemed odd to the investigator, people don't usually change their height.

Hidden True Crime lunch live suggested perhaps he wore lifts.

JMO

 

[otto]

I think they want the girls to be taken off scene and returned later because RA probably has a solid alibi late afternoon and through the night. If D can prove the murders happened in the middle of the night, then RA is potentially off the hook. IMO

If Richard Allen is "bridge guy", and he's on film telling the girls to go down the hill at 2:13 pm, then RA wants us to believe that the girls were alive when he left them.

His only defence would be: "I was the last person to see them at the S. end of the bridge, but that doesn't mean I murdered them." That's why the defence is debating whether the man with mud and blood (while their client was long gone) really had mud and blood, and why the witness did not render assistance. It's as though Richard Allen is trying to win a chess came with a baseball bat.

Proving that the murders happened during the middle of the night sounds like the only defence available (announced during opening statements). I thought it would be their downfall. There's too much evidence that the girls went down the hill, were immediately led to a nearly location across Deer Creek, 50 feet into the forest, and they didn't move again.

 

[al66pine]

dbm