Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[MassGuy]

They got “tunnel vision” after 5 years of investigating multiple people, resulting in them being cleared? It’s not like they heard his name in 2017 and spent 5 years only focusing on poor Ricky. They searched the freaking Wabash for many days to try and prove KK and TK were guilty. Only one person so far has come up in the investigation that checks all the boxes, including an inordinate amount of confessions. And he’s currently on trial.

JMO

They had plenty of people with which to get tunnel vision here. From Logan to Kline, they spent an incredible amount of time and manpower methodically investigating other potential suspects. That Kline investigation particularly, was a sprawling one. The issue was that they couldn't connect either of them to the trail that day.

Those guys ticked a ton of boxes (certainly profiled better), but the evidence just didn't get them there.

Then they found a guy who did tick those boxes. He said he was there that day. He said he was dressed like BG. Witnesses saw him there and he saw those witnesses there. The timing lined up. That cartridge matched.

I am no fan of certain parts of this investigation, the power struggle that seems to have taken place (I'm more than annoyed by the apparent lack of FBI involvement), nor certain personnel (Ligette in particular reminds me of a caricature of a small town southern sheriff).

I've said it before, but I hate on some level the fact that this guy is the one on trial. Not because the evidence shows he didn't do it, but because he doesn't fit on multiple levels (age, criminal history, etc). But the evidence is the evidence, and cannot be ignored.

My concern is not that they have the wrong man, rather, if they can prove it. A long way to go though.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849436178073743632

 

[SouthEnd]

I’m not making a statement on the case just in general and for whatever it’s worth. No that isn’t odd if you work retail stocking. It’s like if you work in an office job or carry clipboard in a warehouse. How many pens end up at home even if many are accident. If you’re a carpenter probably have a container for screws in pockets when you get home. Etc. murder weapon if true was likely just convenience, not fetish imo.

No I am saying this with my full chest as a person who's lived with ppl who worked packaging in the post office for years. Extra rolls of tape everywhere? Yes. A couple of pocketknives, a multitool, a box cutter or three? Yes.

A quarter of a hundred? No.

JMO

 

[JAY CLUCK]

How are eyewitnesses “half the case”? Their purpose was to corroborate a timeline. They did that. Days ago. We’ve now moved on to the rest of the case, including ME reports that exclude the defense’s theory, RA admitting he was in the right place at the right time in the right clothes, the revelation (that clearly rattled the defense) that the ME believes the murder weapon could have been only one knife, consistent with a box cutter, that the phone was never turned off and activity on the phone is consistent with the state’s timeline… and so on.

Eyewitnesses are only one brick in the growing wall, as has been said repeatedly by others here.

JMO

But that timeline requires an eyewitness. Which was very abrasive and contradicted herself several times. Juries don’t like that.

Different square still the first.

 

[katydid23]

Two dozen box cutters!?? Does he keep losing them?

Does he bring them home from work? I worked at a retail store in college and we had box cutters laying around all over the store. Have to admit a few ended up in my cargo pants pockets and ended up in my kitchen junk drawer.

But he never did it prior to the release of those images.

Why would anyone, if guilty knowing images existed, volunteer information that they were at the crime location that day.

JMO MOO JMT

It seems like he accidentally trapped himself because he had told his wife he went hiking on those trails on the 13th. We don't know when he told her, but he did say his wife asked him to report it, and offer his help.

So guilty or innocent, his wife knew he was there and expected him to 'do the right thing' and help with any info he might have. So he was kind of trapped. IMO

 

[m00c0w]

But that timeline requires an eyewitness. Which was very abrasive and contradicted herself several times. Juries don’t like that.

Different square still the first.

There were four eyewitnesses, right? All who say they saw BG, right? And their times line up with the prosecution’s timeline?

Sounds like corroborating a timeline to me.

JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

Disappointed neither the P nor DNR, that I am aware, came back & pointed out a few things just to cover more bases for any jurors who are ignorant of common gun/outdoor activities/practices:

• the ammo found typically isn’t used for hunting
• deer stands are also used for bow hunting yet arrows aren’t laying around everywhere
• bow hunting season runs longer than gun season
• bullets don’t usually just fall out of magazines
• spare magazines are usually kept in a holster of sorts with snaps over the top of the ammo inside

JMO

ETA fancy bulleted formatting

And on top of that I don’t think hunting would be allowed in an area of public walking/hiking trail.

Jmo

 

[mrjitty]

So far everything I have seen points to RA being the killer. I have no doubt he will be found guilty.

it's the small circumstantial details which are sealing it iMO

e.g now we learn Bridge Guy saw BB when he was out on the first platform. And RA included that detail in his statements along with seeing the 3 girls. There is a reason he did that - trying to fabricate a version that would fit with the two places he was spotted

And BB had a fitbit - so it crushes unless D can establish a real possibility he left at 1.30.

 

[mrjitty]

There were four eyewitnesses, right? All who say they saw BG, right? And their times line up with the prosecution’s timeline?

Sounds like corroborating a timeline to me.

JMO

Yes. Even though one girl has the times wrong, we know what the real times are. She was simply mistaken.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

I think the actual point is whooshing some people, including Rozzi.

RA admitted he saw the girls. He described the exact circumstances they reported in their witness statements, complete with matching timeline.

The people who (quite apparently with a little bit of critical thinking about the evidence) literally saw RA and RA says saw him described him differently. That is the point here, and is valid. Eyewitnesses are notoriously bad. What matters is they all say they saw BG.

I understand why some folks are so eager for the defense to get a win in after the testimonies that absolutely wreck the defense’s theory… but this isn’t quite the issue it’s made out to be.

JMO

When I read that Liggett testified that he didn't know anyone else saw the juvenile witnesses until he saw the misplaced Richard Allen tip. It made me think no one else was there except the juveniles and Richard. Because the juveniles would not have said they walked the entire trail and only saw one person if they saw several people or more than just one person. They have no reason to lie about how many people they saw. They walked the entire trail. And saw one person.

So if the only people there were Richard Allen, the juveniles, BB, and Abby and Libby he is obviously the culprit.

 

[arielilane]

@publicdefender_

Judge Gull reportedly granted former Carroll County Prosecutor Rob Ives’ Motion to Quash Subpoena. According to Ives, Allen had subpoenaed him w/ Ives contending any testimony is protected by work product and he is not a fact witness. The Indiana Supreme Court has stated that a prosecutor may not be called as a defense witness unless the testimony sought is required by a compelling and legitimate need. Matheney v. State, 583 NE2d 1202, 1206 (Ind. 1992). Where evidence can be obtained from other sources and absent extraordinary circumstances, an attorney who participates in a case should not be called.Don’t disagree w/ Judge Gull’s ruling given the high standard but I am unaware of Allen’s reasoning. Let me know if I’m missing something.


8:20 PM · Oct 24, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849606924716610015

 

[Salah11]

There were four eyewitnesses, right? All who say they saw BG, right? And their times line up with the prosecution’s timeline?

Sounds like corroborating a timeline to me.

JMO

Yes it’s being built brick by brick and there is only one man with no alibi out on the bridge.

Funny that but apparently the prosecution are failing here

 

[FrostedGlass]

I love it when these guys change their stories to fit with the facts:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849593467699331324

IMO The part I emphasized is really problematic for the P's timeline.
[snip]

"Important note from interview, Allen changes timeline: Allen recalled arriving to trail at noon and leaving at 1:30 p.m. However, in the 2017 DNR report, Allen said he was in the area from 1:30 p.m. to 3:30 p.m.
The girls were dropped off at 1:40 pm."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849593467699331324

 

[mrjitty]

Let me ask you a question---RA told Dulin that he was on the bridge, dressed like Bridge Guy at the same time Bridge Guy was there.

Why didn't RA ever see Bridge Guy?

Why didn't the witnesses say they saw TWO guys wearing jeans that bunched at their ankles and wearing blue jackets on the trails that afternoon?

That is why the 3 (4) Juvenile witnesses are fatal to the D case. And especially why the rims on his car could well sink him.

 

[m00c0w]

When I read that Liggett testified that he didn't know anyone else saw the juvenile witnesses until he saw the misplaced Richard Allen tip. It made me think no one else was there except the juveniles and Richard. Because the juveniles would not have said they walked the entire trail and only saw one person if they saw several people or more than just one person. They have no reason to lie about how many people they saw. They walked the entire trail. And saw one person.

So if the only people there were Richard Allen, the juveniles, BB, and Abby and Libby he is obviously the culprit.

No, no. It was the mysterious vanishing man that no one else saw that was wearing the same clothes as RA, has the same build as RA, and was carrying the same type of gun as RA. Might have even stolen RA’s phone to try and frame RA with location data. Maybe that’s why he can’t find it.

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

TMS At about 26:00.

Maybe not a major issue but I recall mention even here that somebody else might’ve bought RA’s fishing licence and changed his height. That was debunked in trial testimony by DD.

In 2022 after the tip was discovered, DD had looks up the name RA and finds the fishing licence. Rozzi - “How do we know that was RA? Couldn’t anyone just get online and say I’m RA a CVS employee”…
DD “I know it was RA because I was able to verify the credit card account he used and all of the emails associated with this account and IP address. There’s no doubt this was purchased by RA”.

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[Trebor5591]

So far everything I have seen points to RA being the killer. I have no doubt he will be found guilty.

I agree that RA is the killer. Will he be found guilty? I have my doubts. The prosecution's case is not extremely strong and RA's attorneys seem pretty good, IMO.

 

[INfisherman]

And on top of that I don’t think hunting would be allowed in an area of public walking/hiking trail.

Jmo

True, but the bodies were found on private property & therein lies the rub. The only thing I could think of to counter that would be possible hunting regulations that could stipulate no hunting within a certain distance from public areas. The gist being not to fire a gun towards areas where people would be located. But the D got Dulin to agree tree stands were in the area without specifying what "in the area" might entail - within feet, yards, miles?

 

[katydid23]

But that timeline requires an eyewitness. Which was very abrasive and contradicted herself several times. Juries don’t like that.

Different square still the first.

I'll be curious to see if you are correct that the jury didn't like Sarah becAuse she was 'abrasive.' I am feeling it might be the opposite, actually. JMO

I think the D duo has been kind of abrasive towards many witnesses and so if they don't like abrasive people, then the D might b the ones in trouble, imo.

And because the jury has seen the D being aggressive, impatient and abrasive at times, maybe the jury would understand why a young female witness, who admitted to having anxiety about being involved in another murder case, might be defensive and agitated during a heavy cross examination. IMO

 

[mrjitty]

So if the only people there were Richard Allen, the juveniles, BB, and Abby and Libby he is obviously the culprit.

Snipped for focus.

Yes - the case really is this simple.

The only question is whether RA is the man the 3 girls saw. So the only way he can be innocent is if he left just minutes earlier, and his car is departing on the harvest store camera, and he saw 3 different girls around an hour or more earlier.

But where are those three mysterious girls?