Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #206

[chaz]

How are mugshots taken?
Does the photographer (or someone else) say somethink like:
"Put your shoulders against the wall".
"Put your chin up".
"Put your hair behind your ears ".
"Put your eyes wide open".
Mugshots often look like that so I just wondered.

 

[Vern]

It's really quite amazing just how much they didn't do.

This is what happens when you don't follow the evidence. It's tunnel vision.

This statement above is strictly your opinion I gather.

I'm of a completely different opinion being that they managed to rule out other POIs that we were all over in this case. At least one of whom is now locked up for other murders.

RL, DN, The Odinists, the Kokomo Crew, CE, KK & AK, JBCII, PE, ... and who else that we don't know about? All ruled out. Yet here we are, apparently Poor 'Lil Ricky charged just because the police are picking on him.

Far from tunnel vision IMO.

 

[DoctorRose]

Imo I still need the state to convince me that RA’s odd reactions can’t be attributed to anxiety or depression. I don’t agree with JG’s statement that they aren’t severe enough to make him say something irrational. <modsnip>

Of course my desired end goal is justice for Abby, Libby, their families, Delphi, and even my home state of Indiana. I’ve seen this case grip my father, for example, and I assume it’s because my sister and I grew up in small town Indiana riding bikes and taking walks with friends, assuming we were relatively safe.

No suffering of RA or his family could ever begin to be compared to Abby and Libby’s. If I’m zooming in on this trial though, I want to be convinced RA is the right guy. That, for me, involves asking is there a way that he could be innocent and yet all this evidence be true? Playing devil’s advocate I guess.

And as of now I’m like maybe?? The timeline of sightings of BG is the most damning evidence against him imo and the corroboration is coming from himself. Why did he report that he was there? Is it completely impossible that he could have been there and not be BG and not have seen BG?

I know I’ve read the timeline like probably literally 100 times but I think I need to actually map it out on paper for myself.

Another speculation I have: could he be covering for someone? Why would he do that? Does that even make sense to ask at this point?

<modsnip> I’m still stuck on why the heck would this guy have done this if he really cares about his reputation and his family’s approval?

Also I’m not on either “side” here regarding RA, just thinking out loud. I am 1000% on team Abby and Libby.

<modsnip - moderation question>

 

[mrjitty]

Gray Hughes actually has a pretty great depiction of the timeline based on the relevant evidence and testimony that we’ve seen. When looking at it like that, it’s next to impossible that RA is not BG. One thing I never realized before then is that for RA to not be BG, he would have had to actually pass BB on the trails as she was walking to MHB based on how everything times out. It just doesn’t work in his favor.

JMO

Yes - i can't create an innocent version where he sees the 3 juvenile girls at 1.30pm. He'd have to go off the trail somehow to avoid seeing the victims or BB.

It doesn't matter how much you hen peck witness statements. Even if Bridge Guy slipped in from the woods somehow, the problem is no one saw 2 bridge guys and RA claims not to have seen BB or the victims. But actually we know he saw both of them - he had to!

 

[Dhighsmith]

If I were RA, under the assumption that RA=BG, nothing would have prevented me from somehow leaving Delphi during those years before the arrest. But he just stood there in plain sight.

No fear, one of the cardinal traits of a sociopath. And yet, why do I sense fear in almost every picture of him after the arrest?

Under those assumptions, no matter where he went or how far he was always under risk of arrest.

 

[WildHuncher]

It's such a shame they couldn't find that all important phone to show he was looking at stocks at the trail before 12:43pm when the witnesses made their walk the length of the trail from the high bridge to the freedom bridge and only saw one person. The phone would show he was not at the trail from 1:30p to 3:30p AND that his self reported timeline was wrong. Since it would show him looking at the stocks an hour prior to the witnesses seeing BG after 1:26p being the only person on the trail and would show him being somewhere else when the crimes happened.

You have to wonder what he could have been thinking when he told Holeman he had intended to provide that exonerating phone but now that they were accusing him of murder he would not.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

She told the jury that the green scarf from the creek “may not have been related to the timing of the crime.” She says there is no DNA on it.

How does that jive with not tested? Maybe I misread something-

 

[Trebor5591]

I think anyone (guilty or innocent) who was used to living life in the free world for over 40 years and was suddenly incarcerated might need Haldol or similar.

jmo

100% disagree to this. Haldol is a heavy duty antipsychotic medication and is not needed by anyone other than those in active psychosis. Haldol would not be indicated for a prisoner adjusting to the loss of their freedom. IMO

 

[DoctorRose]

This statement above is strictly your opinion I gather.

I'm of a completely different opinion being that they managed to rule out other POIs that we were all over in this case. At least one of whom is now locked up for other murders.

RL, DN, The Odinists, the Kokomo Crew, CE, KK & AK, JBCII, PE, ... and who else that we don't know about? All ruled out. Yet here we are, apparently Poor 'Lil Ricky charged just because the police are picking on him.

Far from tunnel vision IMO.

I know we can’t name cleared people so I’m not asking, just sharing a yikes from a Hoosier who didn’t know there was a “Kokomo crew”. Too many odd people came out of the woodworks from this investigation for my personal liking! I’m glad KK is where he should be.

 

[ClearAhead]

By all the reports I've read, no one had anything bad to say about him. And then the police came knocking on everyone's door.

Many people have great trust in the law and believe if they suspect someone of something then it must be true. I was one of those people for many years.

I don’t recall any neighbours and coworkers who spoke with LE also speaking with the media. It seems the one thing people agree on is that very few really knew him at all.

Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen: Indiana town wants answers about man who 'blended in'
“Richard Allen, 50, was the guy who worked at CVS. He played pool at the now-closed JC's Bar and Grill. He was nice enough, not overly outgoing.

In the small community of Delphi, Indiana, that was about it, until this weekend….”

 

[snarast]

I do wonder how this case appears for the Jury who are not so close to it.

For instance, we've all known about the video and priced it in. But imagine a reality where RA was arrested based only off timeline and bullet, and then the video had been revealed at trial. Would it be seen as a smoking gun?

For a juror who hasn't followed all of this for years, and doesn't (hopefully) have knowledge of all the macabre backstories and discarded theories/conspiracies - is this case actually not quite simple at it's heart?

BG did these murders within minutes of the abduction, and was gone that afternoon - numerous eyewitnesses saw him, and there is video of him, and Libby's phone corroborates how it went down.

So is RA = BG?

How can he not be if it's his car, and he saw the juvenile girls? Even before confessions and bullets?

MOO

Indeed. I must say that however abominable KAK is, Occam’s razor says he was not waiting for RA and the girls under the bridge. I considered that seriously. But it’s not the most parsimonious solution. The witnesses on the trails seem like attentive people, and KAK is hard to forget.

 

[Simply Southern]

Lawyer Lee around 42:00 mark discusses a male juror. Juror had his hands on his head down for at least 30 mins during the crime scene analysis. When he looked up his face was extremely red.
Moo...

 

[m00c0w]

That's what is giving me my uneasiness. Even if the confessions are solid and he's 100% the guy, they never would have been obtained without his arrest. I'm really struggling on whether or not there was enough to arrest him.

There absolutely was. Probable cause is not a high threshold to achieve - it’s generally described as “more likely that not”. And they didn’t even arrest him outright, they conducted a search warrant at his house and waited for that evidence to be processed. The main thing that came out of it was the handgun that allegedly ties him back to the crime scene, which just bolstered the probable cause to arrest him.

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

How does that jive with not tested? Maybe I misread something-

Clearly there’s an issue with conflicting information from varied sources reporting on the trial. I’d trust wishtv who publishes their daily recap over a youtuber. JMO

ETA next time this topic to support “green scarf was not tested” allegedly made by AB, a link to her video including time of her claim ought to be included. JMO

 

[Vern]

Watch the helicopter vide0 again, they had SO MANY LE there at the crime scene!

Yeh, I know a lot of the LE vehicles were traffic control, etc... but gee whiz, they had to have collected a lot of stuff from the CS... surprised they didn't use the same sense of overkill to actually test it.

Can we put this to bed?

The scarf was tested as testimony linked in the thread already shows. It was also found 50' up the creek from the crime scene entangled in branches and not with any other items that are confirmed related to the crime.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 9 live blog

Follow the trial of Richard Allen, accused of the Delphi murders, as it continues in the Carroll County Courthouse. Stay updated with WISH-TV's live blog.

www.wishtv.com

 

[snarast]

Under those assumptions, no matter where he went or how far he was always under risk of arrest.

Out of sight, out of mind. But always a risk, just less of one. IMO

The lady who noticed the erroneous naming of RA should get a medal - it’s very impressive, she must be so meticulous and determined to help the victims’ families.

Without her attentive eye this case would still be unsolved. It’s likely anyway.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

This statement above is strictly your opinion I gather.

I'm of a completely different opinion being that they managed to rule out other POIs that we were all over in this case. At least one of whom is now locked up for other murders.

RL, DN, The Odinists, the Kokomo Crew, CE, KK & AK, JBCII, PE, ... and who else that we don't know about? All ruled out. Yet here we are, apparently Poor 'Lil Ricky charged just because the police are picking on him.

Far from tunnel vision IMO.

I guess they didn't actually investigate anyone for 5 years then picked a name out of a hat and pinned it on him. Poor Richard.

I don't actually believe that but I think you kinda have to if you think there was tunnel vision in this case.

 

[ClearAhead]

There absolutely was. Probable cause is not a high threshold to achieve - it’s generally described as “more likely that not”. And they didn’t even arrest him outright, they conducted a search warrant at his house and waited for that evidence to be processed. The main thing that came out of it was the handgun that allegedly ties him back to the crime scene, which just bolstered the probable cause to arrest him.

JMO

I agree, there was certainly enough to arrest him.

Not included in the PCA but what seemed obvious from bits and pieces of testimony, RA said some really odd things during that interview, as if he desperately yearned to be arrested. So I wondered if Holeman was concerned, if RA wasn’t arrested, that he posed a valid threat to either commit other murders or take his own life? And could that interview be connected to the safekeeping order in some way? Just my thoughts….

 

[m00c0w]

I guess they didn't actually investigate anyone for 5 years then picked a name out of a hat and pinned it on him. Poor Richard.

I don't actually believe that but I think you kinda have to if you think there was tunnel vision in this case.

“Once they investigated multiple people, made arrests, conducted search warrants, couldn’t actually find the killer… they found a guy that admitted he was there, fit the timeline, fit the description, had the right firearm and no alibi… they focused on him! Tunnel vision!!”

 

[KentuckyMama]

100% disagree to this. Haldol is a heavy duty antipsychotic medication and is not needed by anyone other than those in active psychosis. Haldol would not be indicated for a prisoner adjusting to the loss of their freedom. IMO

I used to work at a local psychiatric hospital. From personal experience, working there for years, meds like Haldol and similar are used far more often that I ever saw as necessary. Of course, no one asked my opinion. The reasoning..... Its a chemical restraint. It allows a higher chance of a calm and compliant patient and a far less likely situation where physical restraints are needed. In other words, they would rather medicate them when they are behaving erratically such as very high emotions or hurting themselves or others, than to have to physically hold them down for long periods. A shot is not really ideal, but preferred to hours restrained in a bed, chair or papose board.