Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #206

[KentuckyMama]

To assume he was heavily medicated is certainly not a fact. Even if he was prescribed a drug that could’ve “chemically restrained ” him, we have not heard testimony claiming the dosage he was given would result in that or even that he his spent days in bed. More to the opposite, Dr Wala wondered if he was faking his behavior.

Furthermore we also don’t what medication he was prescribed prior to his arrest. It’s impossible to portray his medication as significant toward anything until we hear the testimony.

MOO

I haven't assumed he was "heavily medicated" anywhere. I haven't speculated on if, or at what dose, he may have been given any specific med during his time in jail or any time previous to it. I only stated my opinion on if they did medicate him, why they may have done it. Based on my own observations working in a psychiatric hospital with patients being give the same mentioned medication or similar ones.

 

[SouthEnd]

Exactly. I think if he’s found not guilty here, it won’t be because the jury believes he is innocent. It will be because the prosecution didn’t prove their case.

He’s there around the time of the murders. He says he’s dressed like BG. Witnesses see him and he says he saw them. His gun matches the round at the scene. He changes his timeline to match the evidence. He confessed countless times.

There’s almost certainly no way they could look at that and say “he’s innocent.” But they could very well be convinced that’s not enough.

What is truly heartbreaking, is that I can't logically put any other human being on the scene apart from RA. Phone-wise, evidence-wise, sightings-wise, car-wise.

If the jury can't decide guilt BARD, that's it. This will be forever an open case.

All MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

Agreed! What is in those confessions? Other ideas:

-RA was aware of one of the victims having some striking physical feature that would only be known/visible if the victim were disrobed
-RA took home some trophy and basically it was absorbed into everyday living in the family home and nobody ever knew its origin
-He described the "interruption" and it was verified by LE
-He's been stalking one or both of the victims and knew personal info & knew where they were going to be that day
-One of the girls revealed personal information of an unusual nature in the course of the event and he repeated it in his confessions
-RA knew the bullet was point-down in the ground because he buried it there
-RA was involved in another murder and revealed information only the killer could know in that murder when he was discussing how he killed the girls
-

- RA tells why he didn’t confess sooner. (not sure, I think I recall this stated by the officer who reviewed the transcripts of RAs phonecalls so for now, JMO)

 

[SouthEnd]

I used to work at a local psychiatric hospital. From personal experience, working there for years, meds like Haldol and similar are used far more often that I ever saw as necessary. Of course, no one asked my opinion. The reasoning..... Its a chemical restraint. It allows a higher chance of a calm and compliant patient and a far less likely situation where physical restraints are needed. In other words, they would rather medicate them when they are behaving erratically such as very high emotions or hurting themselves or others, than to have to physically hold them down for long periods. A shot is not really ideal, but preferred to hours restrained in a bed, chair or papose board.

Thank you for sharing your experience! That's what I also believe from looking at journals. It is an efficient way to suppress prisoners and psychiatric hospital patients. Is it good for the individual? Probably not, but overpopulation etc.

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

What is truly heartbreaking, is that I can't logically put any other human being on the scene apart from RA. Phone-wise, evidence-wise, sightings-wise, car-wise.

If the jury can't decide guilt BARD, that's it. This will be forever an open case.

All MOO

Yes. It’s over if that happens. No one else is going to tick those boxes, and the lack of DNA evidence will ensure the “real BG’s freedom.”

It’s Allen or nothing.

 

[sunshineray]

Something interesting talked about on TMS-RA Trial Day 9.

"Not every case will have meaningful DNA evidence to test.​

While DNA does have the power to tell us a lot about people and crime scenes, it is not always available. DNA evidence is most likely to be left behind in violent crimes but only available in a small percentage of even these cases. Attackers leave behind DNA evidence in less than 10% of murders."

I think the above is very interesting, considering many think the prosecution not having DNA to prove the defendant's guilt is a sure sign he must be innocent. Less than 10% of violent murder scenes have the killer's DNA left behind. This can also mean not enough DNA to prove a person's innocence too. It can go both ways.

I was shocked at that very low percentage. We truly do not live in a word like the CSI tv shows. DNA from killers at crime scenes is a much rarer thing, in real life.

DNA and Wrongful Conviction: Five Facts You Should Know - Innocence Project

innocenceproject.org

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covering true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

 

[MiniMoo]

Agreed! What is in those confessions? Other ideas:

-RA was aware of one of the victims having some striking physical feature that would only be known/visible if the victim were disrobed
-RA took home some trophy and basically it was absorbed into everyday living in the family home and nobody ever knew its origin
-He described the "interruption" and it was verified by LE
-He's been stalking one or both of the victims and knew personal info & knew where they were going to be that day
-One of the girls revealed personal information of an unusual nature in the course of the event and he repeated it in his confessions
-RA knew the bullet was point-down in the ground because he buried it there
-RA was involved in another murder and revealed information only the killer could know in that murder when he was discussing how he killed the girls

The perpetrator would most likely know their last words, if any, and he would also know if they lost control of their bodily functions which can occur due to fear or when being unalived.

Also, why their clothes ended up in the creek, why Libby was unclothed and why Abby was dressed the way she was dressed.

There is a possibility he unalived them the way he did because he wanted to see what it would be like to unalive one one way and the other another way although one does seem more targeted than the other if we look at Libby.

Will these confessions hold the answers.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Jade]

Your opinion.
We have not heard the context so we don't know if he really thought he did. MOO

It’s a figurative statement we know because RA’s family and friends are not dead.

When RA confesses to killing the two that are dead well there we have something.

The common figure of speech was made by a man being defended as sane never having been evaluated as not being able to assist with his case.

To suggest he’s not is ignoring the D brought RA to court sane.

RA was in a session a reasonable and appropriate setting to express the effects of the arrest in one of the more normal humanizing statements he’s made.

But then he’s made out like he is mad and can’t tell the difference between figurative or literal and not able to assist in his defense but there he sits in court. Attorneys by his sane side.

Here is the basis for the discussion of confessions were of RA’s free will:


Judge Fran Gull, an Allen County judge assigned to the case in Carroll Circuit Court, ruled Thursday that attorneys Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin hadn’t made the case that Allen’s admissions were anything but voluntary.

“The statements given to the defendant's family members were voluntary, not coerced by any state action, and were not made under threats of violence or improper influence,” Gull wrote in her order. “Although the defendant is clearly in custody, he initiated the communication with his family and was not subject to custodial interrogation when he spoke to this family.”

Gull continued: “The Court is not persuaded that the detention caused the defendant to make incriminating statements. While the defendant does suffer from major depressive disorder and anxiety, those are not serious mental illnesses that prevent the defendant from making voluntary statements.”

Gull also ruled that all statements Allen offered to Dr. Monica Wala, a psychologist who worked with him at Westville, were admissible in court, too. The judge said the statements weren’t privileged because of an exception in the law for “trials for homicide when the disclosure relates directly to the fact or immediate circumstances of said homicide.”

She denied Allen’s motion to suppress the statements.


Judge: Confessions admissible in Delphi murder trial


imo

 

[flashy09]

I think he hid off to the side and let the girls cross the bridge then decided between two targets. He chose Libby and Abby

BB was halfway to the Mears parking lot before she saw Libby and Abby. Unless BG was following her, he shouldn't have known he had a choice of targets. He either didn't see BB or wasn't interested. BB was leaving in her car at the time BG approached them on the bridge.

I think that would be the case? How far down the trail can you see from the bridge?

 

[sunshineray]

It's such a shame they couldn't find that all important phone to show he was looking at stocks at the trail before 12:43pm when the witnesses made their walk the length of the trail from the high bridge to the freedom bridge and only saw one person. The phone would show he was not at the trail from 1:30p to 3:30p AND that his self reported timeline was wrong. Since it would show him looking at the stocks an hour prior to the witnesses seeing BG after 1:26p being the only person on the trail and would show him being somewhere else when the crimes happened.

He sure saved a LOT of phones too. At every turn RA just seems to have the worse luck. JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I assumed the contamination came from inside the lab but here they talk about PPE at crime scenes.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-states-dna-expert-takes-the-stand/

[snip]
When the lab did get a profile match, results were entered into CODIS, the Combined DNA Index System, for comparison. In the end, the result matched a lab employee. The issue led to “communication” about proper personal protective equipment (PPE) at crime scenes.

 

[Megnut]

If his confessions explain the clothing....

If his confessions explain the blood spatter...

If his confessions detail which injury came first...

If his confessions explain why he left the way he did...

If his confessions fill out what he was doing after 2:32 until 3:57...

If his confessions fill in the movements -- his and theirs --

If his confessions corroborate another known facts (like voices or vehicles)...

If his confessions pinpoint his first intersection with Abby and Libby (if much prior and/or where on the path/bridge...

If his confessions reveal why Abby didn't/ couldn't move...

If his confessions confirm the cartridge...

...it will cement the verdict IMO.

He hid in plain sight for years, but in the end, it was his own self-report that sinks him.

The timeline is too tight.

BB saw him on the bridge a mere matter of minutes before passing Abby and Libby. 1:55-2pm range IMO

He was not on the bridge at 2:03.

But he was on the bridge at 2:13.

He put himself on the bridge, and left it only long enough to let Abby and Libby pass him so he could get behind them, before following them across and ordering them down the hill.

He boxed SODDI out and boxed himself in.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

How on earth would they know that the killer hadn’t used the scarf to restrain one or both of the victims? That is so ridiculous- it’s at a crime scene- moo

They said there was no DNA on the scarf.

"She told the jury that the green scarf from the creek “may not have been related to the timing of the crime.” She says there is no DNA on it."

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-states-dna-expert-takes-the-stand/

 

[Yuletide]

BB was halfway to the Mears parking lot before she saw Libby and Abby. Unless BG was following her, he shouldn't have known he had a choice of targets. He either didn't see BB or wasn't interested. BB was leaving in her car at the time BG approached them on the bridge.

I think that would be the case? How far down the trail can you see from the bridge?

BG was there that day looking for a target. He was dressed for it, armed with a gun and knife.

 

[ClearAhead]

I haven't assumed he was "heavily medicated" anywhere. I haven't speculated on if, or at what dose, he may have been given any specific med during his time in jail or any time previous to it. I only stated my opinion on if they did medicate him, why they may have done it. Based on my own observations working in a psychiatric hospital with patients being give the same mentioned medication or similar ones.

No you didn’t assume he was heavily medicated and I apologize if my post gave you the impression of that. It’s just that at this point in time we have few facts relating to RA’s mental health history or diagnosis and prescribed medications so we have no basis to consider if his mental health treatment within the prison was in any way inappropriate. Infact amongst the D’s motions alleging RA’s poor prison treatment, I don’t recall medications even being mentioned. But if I’m wrong, I’m sure someone will correct me. JMO

 

[m00c0w]

The P built the timeline with the help of those hen peck witness statements. I'm finding they don't always match. See how this works? She was in her car heading back to the trail but her FitBit showed she was already doing her 3rd lap on the trail.

1] BB was seen on HHS cam traveling east at 1:46pm.
2] The two green lines indicating activity were observed to be around 1:30 pm to 2 pm.

1] https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/08C01-2210-MR-000001.pdf
2] https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-native-reflects-on-abby-libbys-legacy-in-town/

In my experience with Fitbit, what I think they are describing are two bars of activity between the times of 1:30 and 2. This would be consistent with her starting her third lap between 1:30 to 2.

The timeline, IMO, appears pretty clear. There is actual video of her car passing by on her way back to the trails. She reported seeing the group of girls on the bridge, which further solidifies the timeline, as them being on the bridge when she passes means the vehicle seen on the HH video at 1:46 is accurate. Her starting her walk at 1:30 means that 1) she doesn’t see the girls on the bridge and 2) she doesn’t see AW and LG on the trails, because she would have already been back at her car by the time they get dropped off.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

The P built the timeline with the help of those hen peck witness statements. I'm finding they don't always match. See how this works? She was in her car heading back to the trail but her FitBit showed she was already doing her 3rd lap on the trail.

1] BB was seen on HHS cam traveling east at 1:46pm.
2] The two green lines indicating activity were observed to be around 1:30 pm to 2 pm.

1] https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/08C01-2210-MR-000001.pdf
2] https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-native-reflects-on-abby-libbys-legacy-in-town/

We know that the 3 juvenile girls saw Bridge Guy at around 1.30

We know approximately what time BB says Bridge Guy on the platform from fitbit and the HHS video. (I don't know these exact times sorry - i don't have the fitbit data). We also know exactly what time the girls video Bridge Guy. We also now know pretty much exactly when the girls arrive thanks to video and digital evidence. (especially BB seems them outbound).

There are only two possibilities.

1. RA was on the trail ahead of BB. In which case he must be the man on the platform. Then there is no way for him to get back down the trail without seeing the girls

2. RA was behind BB on the trail - but in which case she would have seen him on her return leg. So this simply isn't corroborated by his interview.

There is no way to make an innocent version.

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1850965576341930453

 

[sunshineray]

BB was halfway to the Mears parking lot before she saw Libby and Abby. Unless BG was following her, he shouldn't have known he had a choice of targets. He either didn't see BB or wasn't interested. BB was leaving in her car at the time BG approached them on the bridge.

I think that would be the case? How far down the trail can you see from the bridge?

According to BB's testimony he turned and looked right at her.

 

[mrjitty]

In my experience with Fitbit, what I think they are describing are two bars of activity between the times of 1:30 and 2. This would be consistent with her starting her third lap between 1:30 to 2.

The timeline, IMO, appears pretty clear. There is actual video of her car passing by on her way back to the trails. She reported seeing the group of girls on the bridge, which further solidifies the timeline, as them being on the bridge when she passes means the vehicle seen on the HH video at 1:46 is accurate. Her starting her walk at 1:30 means that 1) she doesn’t see the girls on the bridge and 2) she doesn’t see AW and LG on the trails, because she would have already been back at her car by the time they get dropped off.

JMO

Exactly - and her walk is further corroborated by her seeing the girls outbound to the bridge. We know what time they arrive, therefore BB had already seen bridge guy before they arrive. So even if RA was somehow not past the Mears carpark when BB entered she would have to see him when she is on her return leg.

If RA had not done his first police interview, he might have claimed to have stopped before the mears carpark - its the only way to make it work.

OR he has to go off the trail.

So it's simply obvious he is actually the guy on the platform - which he admitted because he knew BB saw him. The problem for him is, he didn't realise how closely she locks him in to a timing.