Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #206

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Rbbm

It's even tighter than that IMO.

BB used up minutes to get to that spot on the path. (And likewise just minutes behind her, Abby and Libby are moving toward the bridge as minutes tick away.)

Libby iirc took a photo of the empty bridge before they crossed it, a few minutes before the photo of Abby, about half way across.

That practically geolocates BG.

He couldn't have been more than a minute or three away from the bridge, on direct course to encounter Abby and Libby.

Precise.

RA=BG

JMO

Did you see my post about the movements on the bridge? Libby took that Snapchat picture of just the bridge at 2:05 p.m.

Libby's 2:05 p.m. Snapchat picture

20241029_124954.jpg

A screen shot from a video of Monon High Bridge in between Platform 2 and Platform 3.

20241029_124921.jpg

I circled in red the same markings on the bridge on each picture.

Times that can be proven,

1:46 p.m. BB arrived
1:49 p.m. Abby and Libby dropped off
2:05 p.m. Libby picture of bridge only
2:07 p.m. Libby picture of Abby walking on bridge
2:13 p.m. Libby "BG" video
2:14 p.m. Libby "BG" video ends and BB leaves passing by Hoosier Harvest Store's camera
 
Why is the part where he is arrested not allowed to be viewed by the jury, if anyone knows?
Is it because of the Miranda warning not being recorded as part of this video, or some other legal kind of thing?
Hopefully, @AugustWest can answer your question. I failed miserably. ;) TIA
 
This… not starting with the assumption of guilty but starting with innocent until proven guilty- in a vacuum- taking only what has been presented thus far, in court (as best can be understood given the media limitations) I’d have a hard time seeing BARD that RA is BG and then BG is the killer-

And even if RA was BG — BG is the killer (because who else could have it been?) hasn’t been shown-

All the circumstantial evidence thus far hasn’t shown that - and as far as I know, the D has to poke enough holes in their case to show reasonable doubt- not give a plausible explanation for all of the claims-

But proving RA is BG and BG is the killer hasn’t been proven BARD so far - and no I don’t have theories to explain everything- and I don’t know that RA didn’t do it - he could be 110% guilty as charged and possibly to probably is-

I am saying that starting with a presumption of innocence and based on what has been presented so far in court -and being intellectually honest with myself- it is not FACT nor has proven that RA is guilty - based upon the P’s case thus far - for me- moo

I can relate to much of your post. And, one of the most important aspects you mention (which is often the most difficult to overcome) is "innocent until proven guilty". However, I do believe BG is the culprit.

So far... RA looks like the duck, drives the duck vehicle, has the timeline of the duck... is that enough evidence to reasonably prove he is THE duck? Is there more evidence? Will the jurors need more evidence?

jmo
 
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….

So far... RA looks like the duck, drives the duck vehicle, has the timeline of the duck... is that enough evidence to prove he is THE duck? Is there more evidence? Will the jurors need more evidence?

jmo
RSBM
I agree with this completely- and the starting point is still innocent until proven guilty- I don’t think that the P has proven he’s THE duck yet… regardless of personal feelings of guilt or not … moo
 
Hopefully, @AugustWest can answer your question. I failed miserably. ;) TIA
It's hard to tell exactly why without seeing the video in its entirety, but my best guesses would be that (1) it would be possibly prejudicial; (2) he invoked his right to counsel and this edit minimized 5th Amendment problems; or (3) there was a discussion about otherwise privileged subjects (e.g. minors, other subjects, health)
 
She was there the first day, Saturday, then not appearing anymore. Perhaps she is working and cannot get off.
Or, maybe she has a little one at home to care for? I don’t know this as fact, but it would certainly explain why it would be difficult for her to attend. No doubt she is following the proceedings very closely and is likely in daily contact with her mother. All MOO.
 
RA has to prove it was not him on the bridge at the time that is consistent with all the witness statements and a video that is also consistent with his admitted outfit and his appearance. He can do this by either showing he was definitely elsewhere, or there at a time that excludes him as the murderer.

What do the cellphone pings say?
Jumping off your post ... if I may.

And, with respect, and to be precise, RA and his Defense don't need to prove anything. It is the State that bears the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

So far, it's my understanding from the the testimony about the creation of the enlarged BG image is - that it was a person ("BG") captured for two seconds in the far distance of Libby's video. That image was then professionally manipulated, enhanced and enlarged, then placed back on the bridge for the purpose of encouraging tips, and helping any eyewitnesses recall if they saw such a figure on the bridge or the paths. The BG avatar not intended (by LE) to be used to specifically identify BG .... other than providing an idea of clothing for any eyewitnesses or to encourage tippers. It's also my understanding that testimony thus far suggests that the BG avatar individual was not close enough to have uttered the captured words "down the hill" on the timed tape (eta: see Lawyer Lee's recap of that video day in court). This had been my view since way back, since I'd previously read that the BG avatar was tiny on the video, and highly manipulated to enlarge it. And tiny = far away. (Apologies for the repetition to those who've read my opinion on this - on our Delphi thread here - in the past.)

In my view, BG is a figure in the background that Libby caught while videoing Abby at the far side of their bridge walk. And the value of the video is that time stamp, a timestamp the State argues is the beginning of the kidnapping/murder timeline they describe. Admittedly, it has been my position ever since the timeline (via PCA) arrived on the public docket, (and even before - as I watched Carter's pressers regarding the same) that BG was an entirely fungible avatar that could be 20 or 40 or 50 or 78 years old depending. In fact, throughout the 5 years of investigation, persons of interests were investigated - persons of all of those ages...

The testimony as to BG thus far does not surprise me. That none of the eyewitnesses were consistent with each other in terms of describing individuals they saw on the trails (or the road) during the State's timeline does not surprise me either. They all saw different men of different age, different height, different weight, different hair, different (or no) hats, different eyes ... which is to be expected on a nice day on the trail.

And, easily, 85% of the population of Delphi wear Carhartt jackets and jeans and caps.

As you have pointed out above, to successfully argue against the State's allegations, the Defense will want to bring doubt, bring conflicting facts, and show/illuminate flaws (if any) in the State's case.

For me (and, I'm NOT the jury), the eye witnesses confirmed there were sightings of a man here and there, walking the trails, the road, and the bridge during the State's timeline. And I have noted that none of these eye witnesses were asked to identify RA (sitting in front of them) as the man they saw, nor did they do so voluntarily. And they didn't say it was not RA sitting in front of them either. And I found this very curious. And I half expect the eyewitnesses to return for more testimony and be confronted with that question. We'll see. (Maybe we're done with eye witness testimony ?)

re: cellphones.
So far, we've heard testimony from State witnesses confirming that RA's phone did not ping in the area during the timeline (for BG and the murders) presented by the State. I tend to think that we will hear more about pings as the trial proceeds.

all JMHO
 
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Jurors got to see what he looked like in those interviews and what he looks like now in the courtroom. They also got to hear his voice….even yelling, not like he will be portrayed by the defense during their case.
I wonder if the State will point out RA saying "guys" in the interview and "guys" in the video of BG approaching. I for one would love to have the opportunity the jurors have had to hear both audio files. I would like to put them side by side and listen. JMO
 
Jurors got to see what he looked like in those interviews and what he looks like now in the courtroom. They also got to hear his voice….even yelling, not like he will be portrayed by the defense during their case.
Yes, well if I were being accused of something I did not do, especially a brutal double homicide of two girls and had to listen to them yelling at me, I’d be yelling right back and using a few choice words myself and I’m not inclined to speak that way in normal conversation. How’s that for a run on sentence?! :)
 
Jumping off your post ... if I may.

And, with respect, and to be precise, RA and his Defense don't need to prove anything. It is the State that bears the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

So far, it's my understanding from the the testimony about the creation of the enlarged BG image is - that it was a person ("BG) captured for two seconds in the far distance of Libby's video. That image was then professionally manipulated, enhanced and enlarged, then placed back on the bridge for the purpose of encouraging tips, and helping any eyewitnesses recall if they saw such a figure on the bridge or the paths. The BG avatar not intended (by LE) to be used to specifically identify BG .... other than providing an idea of clothing for any eyewitnesses or to encourage tippers. It's also my understanding that testimony thus far suggests that the BG avatar individual was not close enough to have uttered the captured words "down the hill" on the timed tape. This had been my view since way back, since I'd previously read that the BG avatar was tiny on the video, and highly manipulated to enlarge it. And tiny = far away. (Apologies for the repetition to those who've read my opinion on this - on our Delph thread here - in the past.)

In my view, BG is a figure in the background that Libby caught while videoing Abby at the far side of their bridge walk. And the value of the video is that time stamp, a timestamp the State argues is the beginning of the kidnapping/murder timeline they describe. Admittedly, it has been my position ever since the timeline (via PCA) arrived on the public docket, (and even before - as I watched Carter's pressers regarding the same) that BG was an entirely fungible avatar that could be 20 or 40 or 50 or 78 years old depending. In fact, throughout the 5 years of investigation, persons of interests were investigated - persons of all of those ages...

The testimony as to BG thus far does not surprise me. That none of the eyewitnesses were consistent with each other in terms of describing individuals they saw on the trails (or the road) during the State's timeline does not surprise me either. They all saw different men of different age, different height, different weight, different hair, different (or no) hats, different eyes ... which is to be expected on a nice day on the trail.

And, easily, 85% of the population of Delphi wear Carhartt jackets and jeans and caps.

As you have pointed out above, to successfully argue against the State's allegations, the Defense will want to bring doubt, bring conflicting facts, and show/illuminate flaws (if any) in the State's case.

For me (and, I'm NOT the jury), the eye witnesses confirmed there were sightings of a man here and there, walking the trails, the road, and the bridge during the State's timeline. And I have noted that none of these eye witnesses were asked to identify RA (sitting in front of them) as the man they saw, nor did they do so voluntarily. And they didn't say it was not RA sitting in front of them either. And I found this very curious. And I half expect the eyewitnesses to return for more testimony and be confronted with that question. We'll see. (Maybe we're done with eye witness testimony ?)

re: cellphones.
So far, we've heard testimony from State witnesses confirming that RA's phone did not ping in the area during the timeline (for BG and the murders) presented by the State. I tend to think that we will hear more about pings as the trial proceeds.

all JMHO
Excellent post.
 
WISH TV is reporting that at the end of the interrogation video:

Allen says “arrest me or take me home, I’m done, you’re not going to find anything that connects me to the murders. you’ve lost my trust, now you’ve pissed me off, you’re an (expletive).

In the video, Allen gets up and leaves. News 8’s Kyla Russel says at this point in the courtroom, there is laughter.
Source: Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog


My thought...Interesting reaction in the courtroom.

If I was inclined to laugh at this, it would be because it seems as if RA was essentially saying ‘I’m taking my toys and going home!’. Yet he’s sitting there in courtroom, yes dark humour it is. JMO
 
Holeman left again. Allen’s wife, Kathy, then walked in. Allen told her it was “going to be all right” and said there was “no way” it could’ve been him.

“I don’t know what they’re trying to do here,” he said. “I didn’t murder anybody. I didn’t help anyone murder anybody.”

“How did a bullet from your gun get there?” his wife asked.

“I don’t know,” he answered.

The pair said “I love you” and shared a kiss.

 
RSBM
I agree with this completely- and the starting point is still innocent until proven guilty- I don’t think that the P has proven he’s THE duck yet… regardless of personal feelings of guilt or not … moo

IKWYM. This is such a tough, heartbreaking case. I don't envy these jurors.

jmo
 
I must have missed this. Do you have a source for this? TIA
<modsnip>

The video is clear to me. They see him coming, attempt to find a path down, he closes in, Libby sees a gun, and he directs them down the hill.

<modsnip>
 
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