Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #206

[rez125]

So maybe he was <modnote - derogatory name for mental illness> when he murdered Libby and Abby, and that’s explains why the crime scene was <modnote - derogatory name for mental illness> too?

Is there any evidence of this prior to incarceration?

I haven't seen any accounts of his behavour prior to imprisonment.

 

[Boxer]

By some reports he was completely <modnote - derogatory name for mental illness> in prison.

Does anybody have what medication he was given? I have read it somewhere but can't find a link.

He waa already edgy.

 

[gremlin444]

Haldol, from the top of my head.

It is also useful to research the percentage of ppl behind bars who are administered this drug.

Moo

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/jury-and-families-likely-to-get-details-on-delphi-murder-scene-on-monday/

Looks like the timing might not overlap by much:

"Those confessions subsided when Allen, under the recommendation of a contract prison psychologist, was injected with Haldol, an anti-psychotic medication."

 

[ClearAhead]

The stress of it all can make people do really weird things - including confessing wrongfully to things they didn’t do. Many studies and cases explain why people “confessed” who were later exonerated. Juries often like to buy confessions because people don’t want to believe anyone would say they did a horrendous crime, if they didn’t! But. People do. More often than I think we realise even. Moooo.

If you have a study relating to confessions following an arrest I’d appreciate the link. Because the vast majority of wrongful convictions involve coercive interview tactics which involve confessions made directly to police. The D are going to have to come up with a reason that holds a little more substance IMO.

It’s equally difficult to believe stress would be the reason he’d voluntarily confess to the only people who have consistently stood by him, his wife and mother. This could be a reason indeed why the jury ‘might buy’ his confession. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

If you have a study relating to confessions following an arrest I’d appreciate the link. Because the vast majority of wrongful convictions involve coercive interview tactics which involve confessions made directly to police. The D are going to have to come up with a reason that holds a little more substance IMO.

It’s equally difficult to believe stress would be the reason he’d voluntarily confess to the only people who have consistently stood by him, his wife and mother. This could be a reason indeed why the jury ‘might buy’ his confession. JMO

He appears to have been very lucid when he confessed to his wife, on at least one occasion. His concerns were about his family standing by him if he did this, and even went as far as to offer to tell police everything if his wife wanted him to. That sounds perfectly reasonable, and very sane.

Harshman interview

10-7.30.24 8.1.24 Three Day Hearing - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[Ursamajr]

I really regret Judge Gull's decision to not allow audio or cameras in for this trial. I'm watching three different YouTubers who are in attendance during the trial (I don't sleep), and depending on who I've watched last, my understanding of the proceedings varies greatly. So does my opinion. For a case that already is so well known and has years and years of extensive analysis from people that have no personal connection to the case or access to evidence from the case - I think it would have benefitted everyone to have a streamlined look into the actual trial that isn't filtered through any bias. I'm looking forward to hearing (albeit secondhand from youtubers) Richard Allen's confessions, maybe I'll finally know what to make of it. All I know is that I'm glad I'm not on this jury.

 

[MiniMoo]

Andrea B says more or less Abby's death is the one that isn't straight forward out of the two girls.

The cut mark (Abby) is on the left side whereas the bleeding under the hoodie is to the right side and she isn't sitting upright or anything.

The blood is on the opposite side of the cut.

Not a lot of blood is pooled under her and she is really clean.

Abby being clean with hardly any blood on her has been brought up before and a number of times - even back during the 3 day hearing.

Back in July or August I wondered if Abby may have been bled out in the creek for there to be so little blood on her or at the crime scene.

Wondering this again...

JMO MOO JMT

Live Now: Day 12 : Richard Allen Trial

 

[Warwick7]

This one says Abby was moved.

"At one point, Cicero highlighted that the patterns on Libby's cheeks were consistent with tears. At that point, Libby's grandmother, Becky Patty, put her head down and cried."

"Cicero said the blood on Abby's chin was a sign she had been moved, because blood would normally flow down from a neck wound, not up."

"Cicero said he believes Abby died where she was injured"

Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

The search continues for the person who killed two teenage friends in Delphi one week ago.

www.wthr.com

 

[Warwick7]

"Graphic crime scene photographs were shown during Cicero’s testimony as he described how Libby was likely mortally injured before being dragged 20 feet or so to her final resting place. Cicero believes Libby was slashed near or against the tree, causing blood stains on the bark."

"Blood on Libby’s hands reveals she may have grabbed her throat to try and stop the bleeding, Cicero described. Blood on her foot is consistent with her walking through her blood. Cicero believes Libby was standing upright at one point, due to the flow of blood stains on her torso."

"Blood flow on her thighs reveals she was in a seated position at another point, Cicero said."

"Jurors and family members appeared distraught as Cicero described moisture “consistent with a tear” mixed with the girl’s blood." (I think tears is more like it)

"Cicero stated the blood stains and patterns on the tree led him to believe the attack on the girl started at the tree, with swipes of a weapon possibly causing stains and spatter on the tree."

Delphi Murders trial: Day 9 live blog

Follow the trial of Richard Allen, accused of the Delphi murders, as it continues in the Carroll County Courthouse. Stay updated with WISH-TV's live blog.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Warwick7]

This one says Abby was moved.

"At one point, Cicero highlighted that the patterns on Libby's cheeks were consistent with tears. At that point, Libby's grandmother, Becky Patty, put her head down and cried."

"Cicero said the blood on Abby's chin was a sign she had been moved, because blood would normally flow down from a neck wound, not up."

"Cicero said he believes Abby died where she was injured"

Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

The search continues for the person who killed two teenage friends in Delphi one week ago.

www.wthr.com

Could she had been flipped over, not necessarily moved??

 

[ClearAhead]

Is there any evidence of this prior to incarceration?

I haven't seen any accounts of his behavour prior to imprisonment.

Well yes, but probably he followed a plan to treat his mental illness. The question would be did anything occur to cause upset or distress around the date of Feb 13, 2017? If so, the answer has not been disclosed yet. JMO

UBM

https://fox59.com/indiana-news/richard-allens-confessions-to-family-doctors-ruled-admissible-in-delphi-murders-trial/

The Court is not persuaded that the detention caused the defendant to make incriminating statements,” Gull wrote. “While the defendant does suffer from major depressive disorder and anxiety, those are not serious mental illnesses that prevent the defendant from making voluntary statements.”

 

[shonyakay]

Could she had been flipped over, not necessarily moved??

In the 3 day hearings he testified Abby's head may have moved or her body may have turned to create that flow pattern.

 

[Warwick7]

Someone else already said it well. He went for a fantasy abduction that was to be sexual. Then immediately everything went to he!! in a handbasket.

His fantasy was shattered. His rage then came out. I don't think he anticipated both or at least Libby fight back. I do think the end result was going to be death, he wasn't going let them live.

 

[Ursamajr]

I may have missed this but, has it been said that either of the girl's DNA was found on the other?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

T

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #205'

Oct 28, 2024

Uh oh——this is making me wonder if perhaps, being outdoors, he did in fact ejaculate, a bit removed from the girls, and covered it up sufficiently?

IMO there had to be a sexual component to this crime or they wouldn’t be unclothed, in whole or partially.

Still I remain grateful that at the least, he didn’t defile the girls’ actual bodies this way.

Not that that gives much solace, since of course they suffered and died in such a horrific fashion.

JMO and sorrowful speculation.

He could have ejaculated inside them while wearing a condom and left no trace.

All that can be said...

• TristanP

• 

I agree with someone else's comment that even using a condom, they are often able to detect trace elements left behind by the condom's dry (unlubricated kind) or wet (lubricated kind) coating.

To find rapists, Candice Bridge examines what condoms leave behind

The forensic scientist is cataloging lubricants as a way to identify sexual predators

cen.acs.org

And also....I hate saying it, but I will.

We are talking about 13 and 14 year old girls who very likely had never been sexually active. A grown man forcing himself on a young teen virgin is going to cause inflammation, abrasions, etc. that a ME would detect. IMOO, MOO, and all that stuff.

Ugh, now I need to go wash my brain.

BBM:

And thank God they didn't find any evidence of this happening to my knowledge. If I missed this in testimony I will retract this. If it was said, can someone post the link please? IMO

 

[fred&edna]

I really regret Judge Gull's decision to not allow audio or cameras in for this trial. I'm watching three different YouTubers who are in attendance during the trial (I don't sleep), and depending on who I've watched last, my understanding of the proceedings varies greatly. So does my opinion. For a case that already is so well known and has years and years of extensive analysis from people that have no personal connection to the case or access to evidence from the case - I think it would have benefitted everyone to have a streamlined look into the actual trial that isn't filtered through any bias. I'm looking forward to hearing (albeit secondhand from youtubers) Richard Allen's confessions, maybe I'll finally know what to make of it. All I know is that I'm glad I'm not on this jury.

There's one YT-er who continues to be all but ready to crucify a family member. Complete nutters... imo.

 

[gremlin444]

Andrea B says more or less Abby's death is the one that isn't straight forward out of the two girls.

The cut mark (Abby) is on the left side whereas the bleeding under the hoodie is to the right side and she isn't sitting upright or anything.

The blood is on the opposite side of the cut.

Not a lot of blood is pooled under her and she is really clean.

Hmm..that's not what it sounded like to me from reading updates today:

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 9 | DNA and Blood Spatter experts take the stand: Allen's DNA not found at scene

The jury heard testimony from Stacy Bozinovski. She tested the sexual assault kits that came from the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German during their autopsies.

www.wrtv.com

"Cicero found Abby's injury on the left side of her neck. She only had blood in the area of her injury."

I believe Cicero's testimony from the August 3 day hearing clears it up a bit (pages 16 & 17)

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

He emphasizes that the blood patterns on her face indicate that either her face or body were turned at some point after the cut was made. He then said the back of the sweatshirt in the neck area was so saturated that the blood then started soaking into the ground and then trickled off to the right of her and collected in a small accumulation.

IMHO, MOO, etc

 

[Warwick7]

"Previous autopsy findings did reveal faint lines on Abby’s mouth, which a pathologist theorized could have been tape or clothing of some sort used to cover the girl’s mouth. But there was no tape residue found and no mention of markings on Abby’s hands."

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-blood-spatter-expert-weighs-in-on-girls-final-moments/

 

[gremlin444]

Just had a thought about how if RA is BG and the muddy and/or bloody guy there is no DNA in his car linking him to the crime.

So, in Bryan Kohberger's case, it is thought he had a protective coverall on over his clothes when he killed the 4 students. He then ran outside, yanked it off, kicked off shoes and gloves into a bag, and sped off.

I wonder if with Bridge Guy we have a reverse of that situation--BG walks to his car with his bloody clothes (though I think he takes off the blue carhartt and sticks it under his tan hoodie that we see sticking out (IMHO, MOO), uses his key fob to open his trunk where has stashed a disposable protective coverall and shoe covers like the kind you buy at Home Depot (every murderer's favorite place for one stop shopping) and some paper towels. Wipe hands off, pull on the coverall and shoe covers over the bloody clothes and shoes to encase them, and then hop in the driver's seat and go. With his wife at work or at family's, he can then take the time to undress unobserved at home and plan on how to clean/dispose of them and he doesn't have to worry about DNA in the car.

 

[Warwick7]

Hmm..that's not what it sounded like to me from reading updates today:

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 9 | DNA and Blood Spatter experts take the stand: Allen's DNA not found at scene

The jury heard testimony from Stacy Bozinovski. She tested the sexual assault kits that came from the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German during their autopsies.

www.wrtv.com

"Cicero found Abby's injury on the left side of her neck. She only had blood in the area of her injury."

I believe Cicero's testimony from the August 3 day hearing clears it up a bit (pages 16 & 17)

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

He emphasizes that the blood patterns on her face indicate that either her face or body were turned at some point after the cut was made. He then said the back of the sweatshirt in the neck area was so saturated that the blood then started soaking into the ground and then trickled off to the right of her and collected in a small accumulation.

IMHO, MOO, etc

I read that too in another article. Her head moved.

"Cicero said the blood on Abby's chin was a sign she had been moved, because blood would normally flow down from a neck wound, not up."