Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #206

[gremlin444]

I may have missed this but, has it been said that either of the girl's DNA was found on the other?

At least some of the blood on Libby's shoe that was found under Abby's back was Abby's. They weren't sure about all of it. Both girls' DNA was found on the sweatshirt Abby was wearing and that make sense since it was from trunk of of Kelsi's car.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I cannot imagine the terror these girls endured. I can readily picture myself at their age.

It hurts my heart.

 

[rez125]

He waa already edgy.

According to who?

 

[Warwick7]

Someone else already said it well. He went for a fantasy abduction that was to be sexual. Then immediately everything went to he!! in a handbasket.

His fantasy was shattered. His rage then came out. I don't think he anticipated both or at least Libby fight back. I do think the end result was going to be death, he wasn't going let them live.

And....no one wakes one morning and says they are going to abduct, sexually assault, then murder someone.

That 2017 phone could have revealed a whole lot, even google searches about what he actually tried to accomplish.

 

[MiniMoo]

Hmm..that's not what it sounded like to me from reading updates today:

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 9 | DNA and Blood Spatter experts take the stand: Allen's DNA not found at scene

The jury heard testimony from Stacy Bozinovski. She tested the sexual assault kits that came from the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German during their autopsies.

www.wrtv.com

"Cicero found Abby's injury on the left side of her neck. She only had blood in the area of her injury."

I believe Cicero's testimony from the August 3 day hearing clears it up a bit (pages 16 & 17)

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

He emphasizes that the blood patterns on her face indicate that either her face or body were turned at some point after the cut was made. He then said the back of the sweatshirt in the neck area was so saturated that the blood then started soaking into the ground and then trickled off to the right of her and collected in a small accumulation.

IMHO, MOO, etc

I think actual images would be better rather than verbal.

With block outs of anything graphic or totally unnecessary, of course.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[snarast]

If I were RA, under the assumption that RA=BG, nothing would have prevented me from somehow leaving Delphi during those years before the arrest. But he just stood there in plain sight.

No fear, one of the cardinal traits of a sociopath. And yet, why do I sense fear in almost every picture of him after the arrest?

 

[Rosegold68]

If I were RA, under the assumption that RA=BG, nothing would have prevented me from somehow leaving Delphi during those years before the arrest. But he just stood there in plain sight.

No fear, one of the cardinal traits of a sociopath. And yet, why do I sense fear in almost every picture of him after the arrest?

I pick up in this too. Fear

And has already been pointed out, you don’t just wake up one morning and decide to commit this crime from out of the blue.

 

[Myvice]

It would be interesting if after the trial someone would take the transcripts and compare them to what is being passed on by those attending the trial.

Surely, no one would purposely try to mislead the public in a trial this egregious just to make a point. But it's hard to understand how people listening to the same trial could be so contradictory. Wouldn't they make a special point of retracting statements made in error?

 

[Melted]

If he explained even a minor part or detail of that crime scene, it’s enough to call him guilty, JMO

The problem is that he had received the majority of discovery before the confessions began, which would include photos of the crime scene etc.

He really needs to say something that only the killer would know that wasn’t in discovery.

again I’m assuming that what the prosecution is going to attempt to use as “what only the killer would know” is going to be that he used a box cutter, but that wasn’t testified to as the murder weapon. It was actually quite strangely suggested as an option by the doctor who had changed his opinion after he had been deposed.

JMO

 

[Melted]

“Psychosis refers to a collection of symptoms that affect the mind, where there has been some loss of contact with reality. During an episode of psychosis, a person’s thoughts and perceptions are disrupted and they may have difficulty recognizing what is real and what is not.”

Understanding Psychosis

This fact sheet presents information on psychosis including causes, signs and symptoms, treatment, and resources for help.

www.nimh.nih.gov

 

[Dhighsmith]

It would be interesting if after the trial someone would take the transcripts and compare them to what is being passed on by those attending the trial.

Surely, no one would purposely try to mislead the public in a trial this egregious just to make a point. But it's hard to understand how people listening to the same trial could be so contradictory. Wouldn't they make a special point of retracting statements made in error?

Especially when there’s no device amplifying the voice of those giving testimony. It’s one thing to deny live TV trial coverage in the courtroom but not to provide microphones is another criticism of the trial.

 

[Melted]

If you have a study relating to confessions following an arrest I’d appreciate the link. Because the vast majority of wrongful convictions involve coercive interview tactics which involve confessions made directly to police. The D are going to have to come up with a reason that holds a little more substance IMO.

It’s equally difficult to believe stress would be the reason he’d voluntarily confess to the only people who have consistently stood by him, his wife and mother. This could be a reason indeed why the jury ‘might buy’ his confession. JMO

See my link above regarding psychosis. It is very hard to imagine this if you have not suffered through an episode, but that link explains it fairly well. It is a complete disconnect from reality, the exact type of thing that would have someone confessing to murdering their still alive family.

JMO

 

[Dhighsmith]

Link for Thread 206 is missing for me, had to go through search process to access.

 

[Megnut]

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Nine: Crime Scene Analysis

We discuss the ninth day of Richard Allen's trial. We had a half-day of testimony from Stacy Bozinovski of the Indianapolis Indiana State Police Laboratory and...

murdersheetpodcast.com

 

[MassGuy]

See my link above regarding psychosis. It is very hard to imagine this if you have not suffered through an episode, but that link explains it fairly well. It is a complete disconnect from reality, the exact type of thing that would have someone confessing to murdering their still alive family.

JMO

He seemed to indicate he was potentially ready to confess just a couple weeks after his arrest.

3 Day Hearing - Google Drive

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone
Check out the new Websleuths poll. CLICK HERE TO CAST YOUR VOTE
At the end of court on 10/28 the results are;
Guilty and acted along 60.5%
Guilty but had help 2.3%
Not Guilty 12.8%
I don't know 24.4%

 

[Tricia]

A quick reminder.
Please remember to put "in my opinion" or IMO when posting your opinion.
Easy peasy right?
Tricia

 

[shonyakay]

The problem is that he had received the majority of discovery before the confessions began, which would include photos of the crime scene etc.

He really needs to say something that only the killer would know that wasn’t in discovery.

again I’m assuming that what the prosecution is going to attempt to use as “what only the killer would know” is going to be that he used a box cutter, but that wasn’t testified to as the murder weapon. It was actually quite strangely suggested as an option by the doctor who had changed his opinion after he had been deposed.

JMO

Besides the box cutter, RA may have stated other things that only the killer would know.

For instance, RA may have confessed he did something at the crime scene or mentioned seeing something at the crime scene that only the killer would know and when LE checked this out it was corroborated.

It is going to be an uphill battle for the defense if they try to claim he only knew certain things because of the discovery, especially if those certain things weren't in the discovery.

Let's say the things he claimed are in the discovery, he wasn't given all of the discovery at once, and it was in no particular order.

First, the defense would have to prove that RA had the discovery with those specific elements in it.

RA would have had to compile all of the discovery into chronological order himself to memorize the accurate timeline and all of the actual details of the crime, all the while he was banging his head against the walls, and eating his own feces.

One word: Preposterous.

 

[snooptroop88]

People on the prior thread (205) are discussing whether RA kept souvenirs. Considering the muddy/bloody and interrupted BG, I think it is doubtful (still possible, though) there are souvenirs. If there were a souvenir, it would be a cryptic one, and I think it could be that bullet in the keepsake box from the bedroom, jmo.

Logically, I'd say no souvenirs. But the killer doesn't appear to always have been thinking clearly, so we can't be sure. Still, with RA having several years in which to consider his options, my guess would be no souvenirs, and if there is one, it is the keepsake bullet. All MOO.

 

[Melted]

Besides the box cutter, RA may have stated other things that only the killer would know.

For instance, RA may have confessed he did something at the crime scene or mentioned seeing something at the crime scene that only the killer would know and when LE checked this out it was corroborated.

It is going to be an uphill battle for the defense if they try to claim he only knew certain things because of the discovery, especially if those certain things weren't in the discovery.

Let's say the things he claimed are in the discovery, he wasn't given all of the discovery at once, and it was in no particular order.

First, the defense would have to prove that RA had the discovery with those specific elements in it.

RA would have had to compile all of the discovery into chronological order himself to memorize the accurate timeline and all of the actual details of the crime, all the while he was banging his head against the walls, and eating his own feces.

One word: Preposterous.

We will know soon