Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #206

[m00c0w]

Galipeau said Allen was first watched by other inmates before correctional officers. News 8’s Kyla Russell reports this shift only happened after he received legal mail on April 3, 2023.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

Day 10 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins at 9 a.m. Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

This is of note. This would mean that other inmates were not watching him and whispering discovery to him at all hours forcing him to confess…

JMO

 

[Vern]

I think if you’re coming at it from a the prosecution hasn’t proven beyond a reasonable doubt RA did it, and not that’s he’s necessarily innocent just unproven you’d point out

-One witness identified a bloody and muddy man wearing different clothes than RA
-One witness said they saw a younger guy out there that day around the time of the murders

Those two things alone I don’t think it would be unreasonable for a juror to think there could have been at least three men walking around during that time, and who knows maybe there were some not seen

-The bullet was from a Sauer 226, but they can’t confirm it is from RA’s 226, how many other people own that model of gun, when they first bring this evidence about the bullet up you’re thinking it’s the smoking gun but then let down when it could be someone else’s gun

-LE fumbled the investigation and could have followed up right away on RA and potentially missed out on collecting crucial evidence such as his phone

-Prosecution has not shown that bridge guy committed the murders, there is a non zero chance that bridge guy is just somebody who happened to be in this grainy video and someone else besides bridge guy committed the crimes, there is no dna no nothing at the crime scene to analyze and link bridge guy to the murderer

I’m not going to say there isn’t circumstantial evidence against RA, but jurors don’t get to constantly analyze, talk through, speculate like the public does

But they do consider the totality of all the evidence.

RA just happens to be the unluckiest guy in the world OR when are too many coincidences NOT a coincidence?

 

[loveisthemovement]

"Galipeau described the several times Allen admitted and apologized to him about the murders. Allen also told him that he threw out the box cutter used to kill the girls in a CVS dumpster. It wasn’t clear if this was the CVS Allen was employed at. Despite the confession, Galipeau said Allen’s treatment did not change."

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

I guess we need to know if the box cutter was public knowledge at this point.

 

[mrjitty]

I suspect the defense argument will be that there is no proof that the girls were forced unwillingly down the hill because a gun or other coercive weapon is not seen on the video, nor are they seen on the video being forced or coerced down the hill. I don't think this will be successful.

also Bridge Guy was a woman who did the murders at 4.30 am!

Being sarcastic of course but all of this seems a heavy lift. We might as well pack up and go home if a juror doesn’t believe BG did the murders. Was he just innocently on his way by???

 

[steeltowngirl]

There is a video of a man walking near the girls. There is no definitive proof that the man in the video was the person who removed the girls from the bridge. The proof that this man ordered the girls by force anywhere only lies in the words "down the hill" and the reference to a gun. You don't physically see him forcing them anywhere. You can't say for certain that is his voice. There is no tie of BG to the actual murder scene. I am not saying that BG didn't do these things. I am saying that as a matter of law, you have to meet the elements or there is no crime, and that is the argument (in a very limited nutshell) one would make against all elements of the crime being met.

The elements have to be met ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ in the eyes of the jury. Not with absolute certainty. Is my understanding correct?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I agree but some people completely dismiss circumstantial evidence. It's a feature of every single discussion about the Idaho case. I'd like to believe the court of public opinion isn't as important as the justice system but I bet RA and his family would argue otherwise.

My post was not about the court of public opinion.

 

[Melted]

"Galipeau described the several times Allen admitted and apologized to him about the murders. Allen also told him that he threw out the box cutter used to kill the girls in a CVS dumpster. It wasn’t clear if this was the CVS Allen was employed at. Despite the confession, Galipeau said Allen’s treatment did not change."

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

I guess we need to know if the box cutter was public knowledge at this point.

The box cutter can’t be public knowledge because the forensic pathologist didn’t testify to a box cutter being the murder weapon, he could only say they were killed with a sharp edged weapon.

 

[AugustWest]

Any idea why they’d do that but not try to get the felony murder charges dismissed pre-trial on similar grounds? Seems like the case would be much easier to send to jury with only two murder charges, from the defense’s perspective. Now they’re having to battle on two fronts, which at times seems somewhat contradictory and messy.

JMO

A jury is the trier of fact. The facts aren't established until the evidentiary basis of the crime is admitted into the case. With no facts (in a legal sense) there is nothing to decide. It isn't ripe for decision.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I don’t believe they ever found out who this person was but if you have a source that they did I would love to check it out

Maybe I can get one for you.


No names because they were not found to be involved.

Search warrant served at Delphi family farm in connection with two murdered teens investigation

Whatever investigators took out of a house in the 11000 block of Bicycle Bridge Road Thursday night, it certainly wasn't anyone in handcuffs.

www.wthr.com

 

[photographer4]

OMG, RA thinks Holeman handed him a compliment.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

Day 10 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins at 9 a.m. Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

Holeman then tells Allen the media will portray him “in a certain way” and asks, “Are you the mastermind?”

Allen responds, “Mastermind? OK…”

Wish we could view the video of this bc I imagine his response as sarcasm. Moo.

 

[AugustWest]

Could the P argue, with witnesses, that the girls would not have gone DTH or followed a strange man, to establish that the only reasonable scenario to lead them DTH was BG? And the rest is proving RA = BG

Just my own weak theory, playing devil's advocate

That is essentially what they are doing right now.

 

[dub]

Two much younger girls and a gun. It does appear they may not have cooperated at a time (I think it was when he made them undress), which is why he racked his gun.

No need to do that with another person to help, and you’re highly unlikely to have two offenders with the same MO.

That’s also double the chance to leave DNA, which didn’t happen.

This crime scene looks to me like one man did it, from the similarity of the wounds to the fact that Libby appears to have had the opportunity to escape a short distance.

Plus there are lots of other issues.

I’m struggling with the crime scene. I agree with most of this, but the harder to explain parts of the crime scene (especially the lack of apparent reaction from Abby after she was cut) work better for me if there were two perps there.

Also I know it was said that Libby was dragged like 7-8 feet, but is that the entire distance they think she actually got away? If so, that’s a very short distance for one perp to have closed that quickly if he was already several feet away when she bolted. What is that, three steps? But if that’s incorrect please disregard.

All this being said though, I do think it’s overwhelmingly likely it was just RA, because outside of those couple things at the immediate crime scene I see just about nothing anywhere in this crime to even remotely suggest a second killer.

 

[BUF]

4:05 P.M.: RICHARD ALLEN’S TIME AT WESTVILLE CORRECTIONAL UNIT​

Court returned from lunch at 1:45 p.m., starting with testimony from state witness John Galipeau, the former warden at the Westville Correctional Unit, a state prison. Richard Allen was imprisoned at Westville following his arrest until December 2023.

Galipeau said Allen lived in Apod A1, which included four cells for inmates on suicide watch. He described the cell as a 12 foot by 8 foot cell, same size as the other cells in the unit. The cell included a bed bolted to the ground, a toilet, three sets of clothes, and two tablets to download apps, make calls, listen to music, etc. He also said each suicide watch cell has a camera on the ceiling and the lights were on 24 hours a day. Inmates on suicide watch were seen by medical daily, had recreational time five times a week, and showered three times a week like other inmates. Galipeau added that Allen saw his family twice while at Westville, being the only inmate granted that privilege.

Galipeau said Allen was first watched by other inmates before correctional officers. News 8’s Kyla Russell reports this shift only happened after he received legal mail on April 3, 2023. Galipeau added that Allen used the toilet in the cell, but also used the toilet water to wash his face.

The state then showed the jury Exhibit #292: Richard Allen’s request for an interview. It read, “I am ready to officially confess to killing Abby and Libby. I hope I get the chance to apologize to their families.”

Galipeau described the several times Allen admitted and apologized to him about the murders. Allen also told him that he threw out the box cutter used to kill the girls in a CVS dumpster. It wasn’t clear if this was the CVS Allen was employed at. Despite the confession, Galipeau said Allen’s treatment did not change.

Much more at link.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

Day 10 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins at 9 a.m. Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

Thanks.

On cross, it sounds like Rozzi was testifying not the warden the way this is written.

 

[AugustWest]

I suspect the defense argument will be that there is no proof that the girls were forced unwillingly down the hill because a gun or other coercive weapon is not seen on the video, nor are they seen on the video being forced or coerced down the hill. I don't think this will be successful.

Don't hold me to this; this is off-record.

I believe the "force, coercion, etc... element of the crime is a given, as there is an inference that a young person of a certain age is given an automatic presumption of being forced for the purposes of the statute. I remember reading of it earlier in my research, but I have slept since then.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I’m struggling with the crime scene. I agree with most of this, but the harder to explain parts of the crime scene (especially the lack of apparent reaction from Abby after she was cut) work better for me if there were two perps there.

Also I know it was said that Libby was dragged like 7-8 feet, but is that the entire distance they think she actually got away? If so, that’s a very short distance for one perp to have closed that quickly if he was already several feet away when she bolted. What is that, three steps? But if that’s incorrect please disregard.

All this being said though, I do think it’s overwhelmingly likely it was just RA, because outside of those couple things at the immediate crime scene I see just about nothing anywhere in this crime to even remotely suggest a second killer.

If there’s the possibility of a second killer, I would think it could be argued that it’s equally likely RA didn’t do it at all because if a second person got in and out of the crime scene undetected then so could RA and BG is a different person- not saying that’s likely- but if I start to entertain that an accomplice got in and out and flew under the radar- then that causes more problems than it solves for me personally- moo

 

[MassGuy]

After former Westville prison warden John Galipeau left the witness stand, state prosecutor Nick McLeland called Ethan Drang. He worked at Westville for 2.5 years and watched Richard Allen while he was on suicide watch.

Part of Drang’s requirements were to document Allen’s daily events every 15 minutes. The state’s next exhibit showed the suicide watch companion report from April 5, 2023. Drang said the log was made in real time, starting from 6 a.m.

At 8:46 a.m., Allen reportedly said, “I think coming to prison has cured my depression and anxiety. Do you want my Bible?”

Later, Drang said Allen slipped an interview request under the door.

Drang said he had no training on when “someone is faking a mental health condition.” Drang continued describing Allen’s day on April 5. At 7:25 a.m., Allen was “crying and screaming.” He later told the jury that Allen was upset anytime he had to return to his cell.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

Day 10 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins at 9 a.m. Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

 

[m00c0w]

A jury is the trier of fact. The facts aren't established until the evidentiary basis of the crime is admitted into the case. With no facts (in a legal sense) there is nothing to decide. It isn't ripe for decision.

I would have expected them to file a motion to dismiss based on a lack of probable cause that RA kidnapped the girls, though. If the claim is that there are no facts to support the notion that BG kidnapped the girls, much less that RA kidnapped the girls, this would seem like a pretty obvious strategy, especially since the trial judge and judge that presided over the initial appearance are different judges.

Maybe they did try and I’m just unaware.

JMO

 

[Melted]

“The jury chimed in for questions, asking what was inside the yellow envelope from April 5, 2023, which Drang said was the interview request. News 8’s Kyla Russell mentioned that there is a huge discrepancy on when the interview request came in. There was a note on the yellow envelope from Warden Galipeau, saying “Received March 5, 2023,” though Drang did not receive the note until April 5.”

This is getting to be unbelievable!!

Delphi Murders trial: Day 10 live blog

Day 10 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins at 9 a.m. Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

 

[MassGuy]

Galipeau was asked about Allen’s mental state while at Westville. The warden said Allen was quiet for the first month. He claimed Allen only began acting “erratic” after he got mail from his attorneys. This is when Allen began washing his face in the toilet, pooping in his cell, tearing up mail, eating paper and more.

The prosecution has previously argued that Allen’s acts of acting unstable and confessing to impossible crimes only began after his initial confessions. The defense has remained stalwart that Allen’s mental state of anguish led to false confessions.

Lots more here

https://fox59.com/news/indycrime/delphi-murders-warden-correctional-officers-say-allen-made-multiple-confessions-to-killing-abby-libby/

 

[Arkay]

There is a video of a man walking near the girls. There is no definitive proof that the man in the video was the person who removed the girls from the bridge. The proof that this man ordered the girls by force anywhere only lies in the words "down the hill" and the reference to a gun. You don't physically see him forcing them anywhere. You can't say for certain that is his voice. There is no tie of BG to the actual murder scene. I am not saying that BG didn't do these things. I am saying that as a matter of law, you have to meet the elements or there is no crime, and that is the argument (in a very limited nutshell) one would make against all elements of the crime being met.

Not a lawyer, but in my lay opinion, I believe your third sentence holds the answer therein.

He commanded them to go to another location (down the hill) when it appears they only meant to hang out on the bridge. The reference by one of the girls to the gun would provide the “threat of force.”

That seems to me to fit the definition you’ve provided of kidnapping, despite the fact that we have no tangible record of BG also forcing them through the creek and toward the crime scene.

Even if it is “only” that, as you state, if I were a juror and had been given instruction about what factors amount to felony kidnapping, this would be enough to compel me to believe it is valid.


JMO as a layperson.